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Thread: Dornier 17 Bombing Runs

  1. #1

    Default Dornier 17 Bombing Runs

    In my primary resource for information about the Battle of Britain, (The book Fighter The True Story of the Battle of Britain, by Len Deighton) it includes the following very interesting sections.
    The Dorniers had evolved a technique of approaching their target in a long shallow dive. This enabled them to add 100mph to their top speed, and at 370mph they were difficult to catch, even in a Spitfire.


    And then another section, which was the experience of a RAF pilot undergoing this kind of attack.

    The raids continued with the same relentless energy as they had the previous day. Inevitably some RAF fighters were caught on the ground. At lunchtime the Kenley Controller phoned 85 Squadron at Croydon and scrambled them. As Squadron Leader Peter Townsend cleared the perimeter fence and reached for the undercarriage retraction gear, his engine stopped. It missed a few beats before roaring back to life again. "Turning in the cockpit, I saw the rest of the squadron emerging from a vast eruption of smoke and debris." The blast of the bombs had strangled his engine but the Hurricanes survived the bombing. Out of sight over the horizon were the vulnerable Dornier Do 17s discovering that their low-level diving runs gave their targets no warning, and gave themselves a chance at getting away.
    Is there any way that this could be simulated in Wings of Glory?


  2. #2

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    Overdive is the only thing that comes to mind, but still not sure it would provide enough head start on a Spitfire.

    I do wonder why WGS doesn't provide two dive cards in the deck.


    I can see the "no consecurive 'steep' maneuvers" in WGF, not so much in WGS

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Pilot View Post
    ...Is there any way that this could be simulated in Wings of Glory?
    You'd have to allow the Dornier to lose an altitude chit per manoeuvre card to replicate the shallow dive Daniel, or something like that.
    A quick visit to Wiki gives Do 17 Z-2 stats as
    Cruise speed: 190 mph, at 8,837 kg (19,482 lb) at 4,000 m (13,123 ft)
    Maximum speed: 255 mph at 8,040 kg (17,725 lb) at 5,000 m (16,404 ft) down to 220 mph at 8,040 kg (17,725 lb) at sea level
    & for a MkII Spit Max Speed of 357 mph at 17,000 ft. This would suggest the maths might work out as stated so there may have to be some adjustment made to the speed of the cards used if you're trying to replicate the tactic. I'd think it would make for a difficult game if the Spit's cannot catch up to their prey !
    The bombing mission of the airfield should be doable, you just have to scramble your fighters from dispersal and take off as the raiders pass overhead - again a hard option as you may find it difficult to catch up once off the ground.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

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    Depending on how long the Do 17's straight is, you could do a straight and then the dive, with the beginning of the dive's line at the arrow of the straight and then use it as one maneuver.

  5. #5

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    Energy is the big thing missing in the WoG game engine. House ruling it is tough, because different planes can gain higher speeds, and have greater or lesser drag depending on a lot of factors.
    I don't know of an easy way to do it, though it's on my list of things to tinker with.
    The fighting wings game (which I've found to be a source of reliable aircraft performance info) has a max dive speed for the Do-17Z to be between 375 and 425mph. So it could outrun a Spitfire that is in level flight .
    However, the Spitfire can reach a max dive speed of between 450 and 550mph. So a diving spitfire can catch a diving Do.17Z. But there's factors like comparative positions, altitude, et al.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #6

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    about the only way you could replicate the increased speed over a period of time is use the maneuver deck of a faster aircraft while the dornier is in the shallow dive. but then youd have to do the same for all the other aircraft in the game. seems like thatd be opening quite a big can of worms.

  7. #7

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    Some players have tried adding the length of the stall arrow onto the dive arrow.



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