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Thread: Spitballing Future Sets, 2020 edition

  1. #1

    Default Spitballing Future Sets, 2020 edition

    Given how many years it's been since Series 9, and that they just looped Series 1 back for a third release, I thought it might be time to take a look at the potential future of WGF again, assuming it's not being elbowed aside into Reprints Only to make more room for BSG. Let's stipulate for purposes of this discussion that I'm not even looking at Special Packs...

    As I see it, there are three potential roads forward for the next "mainline" release:
    • Series 10, four new sculpts
    • Second run of Series 5, eight new decoes
    • Third run of Series 2, eight new-to-Ares decoes possibly including Nexus schemes


    So we're kinda looping back to 2013 again and revisiting this old thread: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-sets-are-left and building on it with new data and Lessons Learned. I can see three key criteria to qualify a plane for a new sculpt...
    • Existing Wings of War card or other mention in "official" docs (point chart, altitude table)
    • >100 aircraft of the type deployed
    • Participant in events of historic significance


    And where we are... Tandems and Macchi flying boat in bold.

    Series Entente scout Entente tandem/specialty CP scout CP tandem/specialty
    1 SPAD XIII
    Sop. Camel
    --- Alb. D.Va
    Fok. Dr.I
    ---
    2 Sop. Snipe AIRCO DH.4 Fok. D.VII Roland C.II
    3 Nieu. 17/23 RAF RE8 Alb. D.III [B]UFAG C.I
    4 RAF SE5a Breguet BR.14 Pfalz D.III Rumpler C.IV
    5 M-S N
    AIRCO DH.2
    --- Fok. E.III
    Halb. D.III
    ---
    6 Sop. Tripe
    Hanriot HD1
    --- Avia. D.I
    SSW D.III
    ---
    7 SPAD VII Bristol F2B Alb. D.II Halb. CL.II
    8 Nieu. 28 Macchi M.5 flying-boat
    (single-seater, "specialty")
    Fok. E.V/D.VIII Hann. CL.IIIa
    9 Nieuport 11 Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter/Comic
    (single-seater, "specialty")
    Phonix D.I Albatros C.III


    Last time, we ended up with this list: cards without minis in bold
    Entente scout Entente tandem CP scout CP tandem
    Bleriot XI (unarmed)
    M-S A.1
    M-S L
    Nieu. 21 (swap N11 cowl onto N17 sculpt?)
    Nieu. 27
    SPAD S.XII
    AIRCO DH.5
    AIRCO DH.6
    Bristol Scout
    Bristol M.1c
    Austin-Ball A.F.B.1
    RAF FE8
    Sopwith Tabloid
    Sopwith Pup
    Vickers FB12
    Ansaldo A.1 Balilla
    Ansaldo S.V.A.5
    Thomas Morse S.4
    Sopwith Dolphin
    M-S BB
    SAML S.2 (shared sculpt with Avatik B.I, re-winged?)
    SAML S.1 (=Aviatik B.I)
    Vickers FB5 "Gunbus"
    RAF F.E.2b
    Avro 504 (single)*
    Avro 504 (2-seat)
    Caudron G.4
    Breguet Br.M5
    Voisin 5
    Voisin 8
    Bleriot XI-2 (unarmed)
    Dorand AR.1
    Dorand AR.2
    1914 Farman S.11 (unarmed)
    1915 Farman F.40
    M-S P
    Nieu. 12 (1s and 2s versions)
    Salmson 2
    Paul Schmitt 7
    SPAD A.2
    SPAD S.XI
    AIRCO DH.9a
    Armstrong Whitworth FK8
    Armstrong Whitworth FK10
    Martinsyde F.4 Buzzard
    Martinsyde G.100 Elephant (by size + rear-gun)
    RAF RE7
    RAF BE12 (by size)
    RAF BE2c
    Sopwith Bulldog
    Sopwith Cuckoo
    Ansaldo S.V.A.10
    Fiat R.2
    Pomilio PC (and maybe PE?)
    S.I.A. 7B.1
    Anatra DS
    Lebed 12
    SSW D.I (slipstream in with Nieuport 17? this and E.IV only listed for card completion)
    Fokker E.IV (unlikely)
    SSW D.IV

    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg D.I
    Alb. D.I
    Halb. D.II
    Taube
    LFG Rol. D.II
    LFG Rol D.VIb
    Junkers D.I
    Pfalz D.XII
    1918 Pfalz Dr.I
    Alb. (OAW) D.III
    Phonix C.I
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg C.I
    1916 Lohner C.I
    1915 Lloyd C.II
    1916 AEG C.IV
    AGO C.II
    Alb. C.I
    Alb. C.V
    Alb. C.VII
    Alb. C.X
    Alb. C.XII
    Avia. B.I
    Avia. C.I
    DFW C.V
    Rumpler C.I
    Halb. C.V
    LVG C.II
    Junkers CL.I
    Junkers J.I

    Kindly refrain from getting into the weeds with WWII like last time... but what needs to be added or subtracted, and how many balanced sets can we see to be wrung out of this?
    Last edited by Diamondback; 05-17-2020 at 09:34. Reason: add M-S BB
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  2. #2

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    I think the early war deserves a reprint (Series 5) with new editions for the next series:

    Bristol Scout
    Sopwith Pup
    and/or two-seaters
    RAF BE.2c
    RAF FE.2b

    Hansa-Brandenburg D.I
    LFG Roland D.II
    and/or two-seaters:
    Hansa-Brandenburg C.I
    AEG C.IV

    Even though I gave up on Ares and got Shapeways or other brands of the first four, I would definitely support Ares and purchase new ones.
    The first four are especially iconic.

  3. #3

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    I'm going to have give some thought.
    I'm wondering why you included the N-D 29 (not produced until 1920) and the Packard Le Père-Lusac 11, of which 30 were built, but only 2 went to Europe for evaluation.
    Also missing the Sopwith Dolphin, which, while had limited service, did actually fly in combat for a few months in 4 squadrons.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I'm going to have give some thought.
    I'm wondering why you included the N-D 29 (not produced until 1920) and the Packard Le Père-Lusac 11, of which 30 were built, but only 2 went to Europe for evaluation.
    Also missing the Sopwith Dolphin, which, while had limited service, did actually fly in combat for a few months in 4 squadrons.
    Karl
    Because, Karl, that was the old "Everything Bagel" list before I start cutting things down.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Because, Karl, that was the old "Everything Bagel" list before I start cutting things down.
    I think I had to replace my first unofficial aircraft file due to something like that
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I think I had to replace my first unofficial aircraft file due to something like that
    Karl
    I'd also venture that planes with existing Nexus cards would be more likely, simply because they already have the stat modeling and cards don and it's just a matter of "sculpt and paint mini." I can't find my list of original cards, so if somebody can chime in with the planes that haven't made it out of the card box yet I'd appreciate it.
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  7. #7

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    Interesting to ponder.

    I have long ago closed the book on the idea the game would one day include the full range of aircraft used in the real war. I completed my own build with scratch and 3-D printed versions of everything and more including airships and prototypes. I think if anyone is interested in filling in all the missing minis would be well advised to do the same. Ares is not a high product producer and you are right, the entire line needs to be reprinted as well as all the missing planes. In my years here and in the game I have never seen a time you could just order or buy 10 new planes at will. It has been a search and find game for the serious and patient collector all along and as we saw this week on E-Bay it is getting to be cost prohibitive.

    Playing the cards is the only path for full deployment. Minis are a hobby of collection for what trickles out or can be found or bought out of old collections. I stopped counting mine 5 years ago at 300+ and will likely pass them on to my kids, all of whom are hopeless game and collectors . . . just my meanderings . . . in my mid 60's there are too many other hobbies these days, so little time! I am just going to enjoy what ever and when ever Ares makes catches up with my collection . . . ooo, a turbo Fokker D-VII !

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    I'd also venture that planes with existing Nexus cards would be more likely, simply because they already have the stat modeling and cards don and it's just a matter of "sculpt and paint mini." I can't find my list of original cards, so if somebody can chime in with the planes that haven't made it out of the card box yet I'd appreciate it.
    Pomilio PC; SAML S.2; S. Schuckert D.I; Fokker E.IV; Nieuport 21;

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #9

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    Thanks, Dave, added to table.
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  10. #10

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    Thank you for this impulse, i distinguished the official releases in my app (card/mini). The aircraft released just on a card has a grey icon now.

  11. #11

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    Found a couple more DB - Siemens-Schuckert D.IV; Phönix C.I

    "He is wise who watches"

  12. #12

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    I would be very much into an early/mid-war set with:
    Sopwith Pup
    RA BE 2c
    Roland D-II
    Aviatik C-I

    ...which I think mostly overlaps a Series 5 reprint-I think only the Aviatik is new ?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    I would be very much into an early/mid-war set with:
    Sopwith Pup
    RA BE 2c
    Roland D-II
    Aviatik C-I


    ...which I think mostly overlaps a Series 5 reprint-I think only the Aviatik is new ?
    Neither Ares nor Nexus made any of those, Sam.

  14. #14

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    My most wanted:

    Sopwith Dolphin
    Pfalz D.XII

    Sopwith Pup
    Fokker II/III or Roland D.II

    Salmson 2


    I'd be happy with more repaints. I'd prefer more Mid/Late war planes to Series 5. A new Starter set with 4 new paint schemes would be great as well.

  15. #15

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    Hansa-Brandenburg W.12 & W.29 floatplanes.

    Curtiss H.16 & Felixstowe F2A flying boats, Caproni Ca.4 & Friedrickschafen G.III bombers from 'Flight of the Giants'.

    A.E.G. G.IV bomber.

    Short 184 & Sopwith Bay floatplanes.

    Sikorsky Ilya Mouromets bomber.

    Gotha G.I

  16. #16

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    David, I omitted everything that might require a Special Pack. Floatplanes will probably need a taller box, or to be shipped Assembly Required which Ares won't like.
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  17. #17

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    Hansa-Brandenburg C.I
    Sopwith 5F.1 Dolphin
    Sopwith Pup
    Avro 504

    but i would really like Series 5 reprinted. Possibly nicely tampon printed like beautiful Series 2A, no wrapping in stickers.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    ...Kindly refrain from getting into the weeds with WWII like last time... but what needs to be added or subtracted, and how many balanced sets can we see to be wrung out of this?
    To answer the question, these are my thoughts:
    CP Scouts -
    SSW D.I (slipstream in with Nieuport 17? this and E.IV only listed for card completion) Delete - Too much like N.11
    Fokker E.IV (unlikely)
    SSW D.IV Delete - Too much like SSW D.III, even if personally I'd like to see one !
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg D.I
    Alb. D.I Delete - Too much like Alb D.II
    Halb. D.II Delete - Too much like Halb D.III
    Taube Delete - Unarmed
    LFG Rol. D.II
    LFG Rol D.VIb
    Junkers D.I Delete Only 12 made, served in only one naval unit
    Pfalz D.XII
    1918 Pfalz Dr.I Delete Only 10 made, served in only one jasta
    Alb. (OAW) D.III - Make it a later version

    That leaves potential of Western/Italian Front mid/late sets when coupled with tandems, taking it that that is the norm.
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg D.I (though maybe too similar to Phönix D.I ?)
    LFG Rol. D.II
    LFG Rol D.VIb
    Pfalz D.XII
    Alb. (OAW) D.III - Later version

    Entente Scouts;
    Bleriot XI (unarmed) Delete - Unarmed
    M-S A.1 Delete - not a major type (nice though it is)
    M-S L
    Nieu. 21 (swap N11 cowl onto N17 sculpt?) Delete - too similar to other Nieuports
    Nieu. 27 Delete - too similar to other Nieuports
    SPAD S.XII
    AIRCO DH.5
    AIRCO DH.6 Delete - niche - anti-sub type.
    Bristol Scout
    Bristol M.1c Delete - too few,
    Austin-Ball A.F.B.1 Delete - prototype only
    RAF FE8
    Sopwith Tabloid Delete - too few
    Sopwith Pup
    Vickers FB12 Delete - experimental
    Ansaldo A.1 Balilla Delete - kept from the front
    Ansaldo S.V.A.5 Delete - long range recon
    Thomas Morse S.4 Delete - trainer
    Sopwith Dolphin

    That leaves potential of Western Front early/mid/late sets when coupled with tandems, taking it that that is the norm.
    M-S L - early type used in numbers
    SPAD S.XII - cannon mounted but very small numbers/use - good for TnT
    AIRCO DH.5 - fodder for Jasta's
    Bristol Scout - good early war type, would require special rules for weapon mounts
    RAF FE8 - lattice tail type
    Sopwith Pup - Will need a deck other than the D deck assigned
    Sopwith Dolphin - Same deck as SE5a

    May add more to this later.
    Last edited by flash; 03-29-2020 at 04:44.

    "He is wise who watches"

  19. #19

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    Phonix C.I
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg C.I
    Pomilio PC
    SAML S.2

    Sopwith Pub

    No wonder you higlightened the badly needed Italian twoseaters.

    Especially the Hansa-Brandenburg C.I was the backbone of the A/H airforce and served during the whole war.
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Phonix C.I
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg C.I
    Pomilio PC
    SAML S.2

    Sopwith Pub

    No wonder you higlightened the badly needed Italian twoseaters.

    Especially the Hansa-Brandenburg C.I was the backbone of the A/H airforce and served during the whole war.
    They're highlighted because they're Nexus WoW cards, Sven, not because of their nationality !

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #21

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    Dave, a note and a question.
    Note: Anything with a Nexus card stays on the list if only for archival purposes, which I shall note as such.
    Question: How many of the "too similar to ___" types do you think could be piggybacked onto re-releases of the "similar to" sculpts? IIRC the main difference between Alb. D.I and D.II was engine and maybe a little internal structure.
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  22. #22

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    Adding deletions, clarifying "archival listings" and noting possible "slipstreams" onto existing sculpts--cards without minis in bold:
    Entente scout Entente tandem CP scout CP tandem
    M-S L
    Nieu. 21 (swap N11 cowl onto N17 sculpt?)
    Nieu. 24/27 - slipstream as Nieu. 17?
    SPAD S.XII
    AIRCO DH.5
    Bristol Scout
    RAF FE8
    Sopwith Pup
    Sopwith Dolphin
    SAML S.2 (re-winged Avatik B.I; archival listing)
    SAML S.1 (=Aviatik B.I)
    Vickers FB5 "Gunbus"
    RAF F.E.2b
    Avro 504 (single)*
    Avro 504 (2-seat)
    Caudron G.4
    1915 Farman F.40
    M-S BB
    M-S P
    Salmson 2
    SPAD S.XI
    Armstrong Whitworth FK8
    Martinsyde G.100 Elephant (by size + rear-gun)
    RAF BE2c
    Ansaldo S.V.A.10
    Pomilio PC--archival listing
    Pomilio PE
    SSW D.I (slipstream in with Nieuport 17? this, E.IV and D.IV only listed for card completion)
    Fokker E.IV (unlikely)
    SSW D.IV

    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg D.I
    Alb. D.I - slipstream as D.II?
    Halb. D.II - slipstream as D.III?
    LFG Rol. D.II
    LFG Rol D.VIb
    Pfalz D.XII
    Alb. (OAW) D.III
    Alb. (Oef.) D.III Ser. 153 late/253
    Phonix C.I--impractical to tool
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg C.I
    1915 Lloyd C.II
    1916 AEG C.IV
    Alb. C.VII
    Avia. B.I
    DFW C.V
    Rumpler C.I
    LVG C.II
    Last edited by Diamondback; 05-18-2020 at 11:38. Reason: pare down the tandems
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    ...Question: How many of the "too similar to ___" types do you think could be piggybacked onto re-releases of the "similar to" sculpts? IIRC the main difference between Alb. D.I and D.II was engine and maybe a little internal structure.
    With the 'too similar' I was thinking of how something would market as much as anything else. As for piggy backing ?
    SSW D.I is essentially a copy of a N.11 - they might get away with it, I can't recall specific differences.
    Same with N.24/27 different fuselage to the N.17/23 but similar performances. (btw N.27 & N.28 are quite different looking beasts)
    SSW D.IV is a step forward from the D.III but is quite different wing wise so that wouldn't fly.
    Alb D.I had external radiators so has a different look from the D.II
    Halb D.II - minor differences perhaps but still essentially the same so might get away with a D.III sculpt but would it sell ?
    I'll have a look at the tandems tomorrow.

    "He is wise who watches"

  24. #24

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    looking over Entente tandems
    SAML S.2 (shared sculpt with Avatik B.I, re-winged?) Delete would they do that ?
    SAML S.1 (=Aviatik B.I) -
    Vickers FB5 "Gunbus" -
    RAF F.E.2b -
    Avro 504 (single)*
    Avro 504 (2-seat)
    Caudron G.4
    Breguet Br.M5 Delete May be too fragile ?
    Voisin 5 Delete May be too fragile ?
    Voisin 8 Delete May be too fragile ?
    Bleriot XI-2 (unarmed) Delete
    Dorand AR.1 Delete
    Dorand AR.2 Delete
    1914 Farman S.11 (unarmed) Delete unarmed
    1915 Farman F.40
    M-S P
    Nieu. 12 (1s and 2s versions) Delete too similar to N.11 - will it sell
    Salmson 2
    Paul Schmitt 7 Delete Oversized type.
    SPAD A.2 Delete Seldom used
    SPAD S.XI
    AIRCO DH.9a - Delete too similar to DH4 ?
    Armstrong Whitworth FK8 -
    Armstrong Whitworth FK10 Delete 8 built. Not used operationally (two-seat quadruplane)
    Martinsyde F.4 Buzzard Delete didn't reach operational sqns
    Martinsyde G.100 Elephant (by size + rear-gun)
    RAF RE7 Delete Use the BE2 for Fokker fodder !
    RAF BE12 (by size) Delete other fighters more relevant
    RAF BE2c -
    Sopwith Bulldog Delete Unsuccessful prototype to replace Brisfit.
    Sopwith Cuckoo Delete Not used in combat
    Ansaldo S.V.A.10
    Fiat R.2 Delete post war type.
    Pomilio PC (and maybe PE?)
    S.I.A. 7B.1 Delete Italian - saw limited service
    Anatra DS Delete Russian/A-H - saw limited frontline service
    Lebed 12 Delete Russian - saw limited frontline service


    So far leaves potential tandems but needs further culling I think.
    SAML S.1 (=Aviatik B.I) - An Aviatik B.I/SAML combo would give us a twofer
    Vickers FB5 "Gunbus" - great early war lattice tail
    RAF F.E.2b - another early war lattice tail
    Avro 504 (single)* - would fit very early war
    Avro 504 (2-seat) - would fit very early war
    Caudron G.4 - Used by French;RNAS & Italians
    SPAD S.XI - & SPAD XVI ?
    1915 Farman F.40 - early pusher used by French
    M-S P - Parasol used by French & RFC
    Salmson 2 - One of the major types used by French & US.
    Armstrong Whitworth FK8 - Very useful slow moving target, used in numbers on multiple fronts from Jan 1917 to war's end.
    Martinsyde G.100 Elephant (by size + rear-gun) - useful single seat recce/bomber mid war.
    RAF BE2c - Ideal early war Fokker fodder
    Ansaldo S.V.A.10 - late war Italian recce/bomber type.
    Pomilio PC (and maybe PE?) Go with the more numerous PE variant - Delete the others.

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #25

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    CP tandems.
    Phonix C.I Delete Can't see them managing the struts !
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg C.I A-H only
    1916 Lohner C.I Delete 24 made - relegated to training
    1916 AEG C.IV - numerous type
    AGO C.II Delete
    Alb. C.I Delete
    Alb. C.V Delete
    Alb. C.VII - mid to late
    Alb. C.X Delete
    Alb. C.XII Delete
    Avia. B.I - as previously mentioned
    Avia. C.I Delete
    DFW C.V - produced in larger numbers than any other German aircraft
    Rumpler C.I - one of the longest serving in its class, multi front, good early/mid war type
    Halb. C.V Delete late war
    LVG C.II - first fixed-wing aircraft to bomb London
    Junkers CL.I - Delete ground attack
    Junkers J.I - Delete near indestructable, 1 shot down

    Leaving a selection of CP types;
    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg C.I - A-H only
    1916 AEG C.IV - numerous type
    Alb. C.VII - mid to late war type (may be beaten out by others)
    Aviatik B.I - twofer -as previously mentioned in entente tandems
    DFW C.V - produced in larger numbers than any other German aircraft
    Rumpler C.I - one of the longest serving in its class, multi front, good early/mid war type
    LVG C.II - earlier type - first fixed-wing aircraft to bomb London

    If I was pressed to pick two for and early & a late set I'd go with the Rumpler & the DFW, if looking for one for Italian front then the Aviatik B.I perhaps.

    "He is wise who watches"

  26. #26

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    Soo, looking over the list here is my want list of 4

    SPAD XII ...Would find it useful for T and T and I just find it interesting
    Vickers FB5 Gunbus....Got one in Shapeways but would like an "Official" one

    1916 Hansa-Brandenburg D.I....Could be interesting
    Halb. C.V....Again have one in Shapeways but would like an "Official " one

  27. #27

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    B.I and SAML would also mean a three-tool wave, just SKU the tandems as 2xxA/B/C/D/E/F. Just culled the tandems. BE12 could probably come along as a BE2c, just tool different top decks like they did Strutter/Comic.

    Avia. B.I/SAML could partner with an Oeffag Albatros, but then we need an Italian fighter.
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  28. #28

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    Sopwith Dolphin (I was responding to your title of "Spitballing Future Sets." If you were wanting something different perhaps you should have stated a different title. Your reponse was over-the-top. I'll leave it to others reading your response below to ponder whether you are a jerk or not.)
    Last edited by John n Colorado; 03-30-2020 at 17:52.

  29. #29

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    John, while we appreciate the New Guy Enthusiasm the point of this thread is about new SCULPTS. Redecoes are another story for another day. Not trying to be a jerk, just with this bunch if you don't crack the whip and keep people on topic pretty soon there IS no topic--you either squelch it early or it spreads like wildfire, as you can see an example of in the thread I linked in the OP.

    To all, please try to keep this to making arguments from a historical or business-case perspective, the goal is not to wishcast personal fanboyism but to take a cold, rational look at how much war the game has left to cover, what the most glaring omissions are, potential sets that could be grouped around them and how much potential life the game has before going to All Redecoes All The Time.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 03-30-2020 at 15:50.
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  30. #30

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    Ouch! Snake bit!
    Not trying to chew anybody out, just to keep things gently nudged to stay on target. Better an ounce of prevention than a Bomb Group-load of cure, right?
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  32. #32

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    You do realize this group has a lot in common with a herd of wild cats right?

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    You do realize this group has a lot in common with a herd of wild cats right?
    The ADD of gun-people has nothing on that of gamers...
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  34. #34

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    Hmmm....gun toting cat....I like that.

  35. #35

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    Thank you for illustrating my point...
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  36. #36

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    Question: How much taller is a floatplane than a landplane or flying boat? If they'd fit in our two smaller box sizes they could be on the table for inclusion...
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Question: How much taller is a floatplane than a landplane or flying boat? If they'd fit in our two smaller box sizes they could be on the table for inclusion...
    The Sopwith Baby and the Hansa- Brandebourg CC are the only floatplanes to have the wingspan of a fighter to fit in a small fighter box size.
    The FB Hansa- Brandebourg KDW is a flying boat that could fit in the small box size.
    All other floatplanes (FP) and flying boats (FB) have the wingspan of two seaters (or of the giants for two of them).

    FP or FB Plane : Wingspan / Length (in meters) / crew / year
    (from the smaller to the larger wingspan)

    FP Sopwith Baby : 7,82 / 7 / 1 / 1917
    FP Hansa- Brandebourg CC : 9,30 / 7,65 / 1 / 1916
    FB Hansa- Brandebourg KDW : 9,22 / 8 / 1 / 1916
    FP Hansa- Brandebourg W.12 : 11,2 / 9,65 / 2 / 1917
    FB Macchi M.5 : 11,9 / 8 / 1 / 1918
    FP Rumpler 6B.1 : 12,05 / 9,4 / 1 / 1916
    FP Hansa- Brandebourg W.29 : 13,5 / 9,38 / 2 / 1918
    FB F.B.A C : 13,7 / 8,8 / 2 / 1915
    FB Macchi M.9 : 15,4 / 9,5 / 2 / 1918
    FP Curtiss N-9 : 16,25 / 9,1 / 2 / 1917
    FB Lohner E : 16,2 / 10,26 / 2 / 1914
    FB Macchi L.1 : 16,4 / 10,25 / 2 / 1915
    FP Fairey Campania : 18,8 /13,1 / 2 / 1917
    FB Felixstowe F.2A : 29,15 / 14,1 / 4 / 1917
    FB Curtiss H-16 : 31,7 / 14,05 / 2 / 1918

    sources : military plane encyclopaedia (Enzo Angelucci)

  38. #38

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    Not sure DB, there were a few differences, some were monoplanes of course - I'd see potential for a floatplane release.
    SPAD XIV anybody ?


    or an Albatros W.4 ?
    Last edited by flash; 04-02-2020 at 01:16.

    "He is wise who watches"

  39. #39

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    Greetings

    Taking a mix of history and business case with a long service theme:
    - Sopwith Pup - active from 1916 and soldiered on in RFC frontline service until late 1917, could have a Belgian option.
    - RAF Fe-2b/d - a bit like the Sopwith 1 1/2 strutter can have Fe-2b/d options for variation, long service in various roles with at least 40 aces.
    - maybe Roland D.II - about 300 built - I am torn on the optimal CP single seat.
    - DFW C.V - active 1916-18, large production run (2000), could have a Bulgarian option.

    Regards

    Edward

  40. #40

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    Thanks, monse. That gives us a little more, though I'd expect an all-float set to sink at retail... probably have to do like 1 or at most 2 per release.
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  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    then we need an Italian fighter.
    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Ansaldo S.V.A.5 Delete - long range recon
    Ansaldo S.V.A.10 - late war Italian recce/bomber type
    No fighter conceived by an Italian factory saw service during WW1 (some Hanriot HD.1 and Nieuport were made by Macchi under license).

    But the Ansaldo SVA 5 (single seater) and the SVA 10 (two seater) could be an opportunity to get an Italian plane that is not a fighter but was designed to be a fighter :

    “Originally conceived as a fighter, the SVA was found inadequate for that role. Nevertheless, its impressive speed, range and operational ceiling, with its top speed making it one of the fastest of all Allied combat aircraft in World War I, gave it the right properties to be an excellent reconnaissance aircraft and even light bomber.”

    “The Flight over Vienna propaganda flight, inspired by Italian nationalist and poet Gabriele d'Annunzio, consisting of an eleven plane flight of various models of Ansaldo SVA-series biplanes, was carried out on 9 August 1918 by the 87th Squadriglia La Serenissima from San Pelagio. At least two of the aircraft were twin-seater SVA 9 or 10s to accommodate d'Annunzio himself for the flight he inspired, while the remainder were SVA 5 single-seaters.*“

    “It has been claimed that reconnaissance performed by the type had been vital in the preparation of a major offensive, which included the decisive Italian victory at the Battle of Vittorio Veneto. During this final major clash, SVAs also intervened directly against hostile ground units, performing strafing and bombing runs against troop concentrations, communication centers, depots, railway infrastructure, and airfields.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansaldo_SVA
    Source : The S.V.A. (Ansaldo) Scouts - Profile Publications Number 61. Surrey, UK: Profile Publications Ltd
    https://rclibrary.co.uk/files_titles...ldo_Scouts.pdf


    Ansaldo SVA were also involved in air combat and some Italian pilots were credited with victories :

    Strategic reconnaissance unit, 5a Sezione SVA
    “On 14 May 1918 out of 5 Ansaldo S.V.A. single-seater in Fossalunga the 5th SVA Section was born ../.. On 8 June, the Lieutenant Ace of the Aviation Michele Allasia arrives and on 15 June Sergeant Giulio Bellaria obtains a victory over Conegliano and Allasia over Collalbrigo ../.. The unit has 3 SVA 3 bis, one SVA 5, one SVA 9 and 3 SVA 4.” (Google translation)
    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/5ª_Sezione_SVA

    Italian pilot Michele Allasia
    “On 8 June 1918, he transferred to the newly formed strategic reconnaissance unit, 5a Sezione SVA. A week later, he shot down a two-seater for his fourth triumph. On the 23rd, he shot down another enemy airplane.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Allasia

    Austrian pilot shot down by SVA :
    On Albatros D.III 153.189, Flik 68/J Offzstv. Emanuel Stumpa , 3 victories, shot down on 14.5.1918 above the Montello after a fight with 2 SVA when he was trying to protect a reconnaissance aircraft.
    http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=744141

    Austrian victories facing SVA :
    “On 12 March, flying Albatros D.III (153.106), Gräser brought an Ansaldo SVA-5 single seat reconnaissance plane down in flames near Monastier dinTreviso as his 16th kill. On the same day he shot down another SVA-5, but no confirmation possible. On 16 March, he collaborated with Strohschneider in bringing down an SVA-5 near Casonetti.”
    https://books.google.fr/books?id=vpw...tories&f=false


    Versions 5, 9 and 10 have the same wingspan and length : 29,855 ft (9,1 m) / 26,575 ft (8,1 m)
    (picture below : The S.V.A. (Ansaldo) Scouts - Profile Publications Number 61. Surrey, UK: Profile Publications Ltd)

    In the more recent Windsock Datafile 40 and 122 (SVA-5 , SVA-9/SVA-10 author Gregory Alegi), SVA-10 with SPA engine has a little larger wingspan 30,314 ft (9,24 m).

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    According to the equal wingspan and length specifications, if Ares would plan to edit the single seater Ansaldo SVA 5, a two seater SVA 10 could be produced in the same serie, fitting in the same box size.
    Just as the ARES Sopwith Strutter has been edited in both two seater and single seater versions.

    But the Ansaldo SVA 5 and SVA 10 shouldn’t be edited in a two seater packaging :
    Here are a comparison pictures with a 1/144 scale SVA templemate over 3 of the largest fighter miniatures and the smallest two seater miniature.

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    Wingspan / Length
    Ansaldo SVA-5 or SVA-10 : 9,1 m (29,855 ft) / 8,1 m (26,575 ft)
    Phonix D.I : 9,9 m (32 ft) / 6,6 m (22 ft)
    Pfalz D.III : 9.4 m (30 ft 10 in) / 6.95 m (22 ft 10 in)
    Halberstadt D.II : 8,8 m (28,9 ft) / 7,3 m (24 ft)
    Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter (two seater) : 10,2 m (33 ft) / 7,7 m (25 ft)

    It shows that a SVA two seater version could fit in a fighter box.
    Who would purchase a two seater miniature which wingspan is smaller than the largest wingspan miniature (Phönix D.I) at a two seater price ?


    I’d like to get Ansaldo SVA.5 and SVA.10 miniatures, with its beautiful streamlined fuselage and shiny camo paintings.
    Its use in various missions (as described above) can bring interesting ideas of historical scenarios.

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  42. #42

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    This is my ANSALDO A1. Posted the SAML S2 in this months workbench.

  43. #43

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    Jumping on the late bandwagon here. I would love to see Sopwith Dolphin, Sopwith Pup, Fokker EIII with new schemes, Fokker DVII with new schemes, and Salmson 2A2.

  44. #44

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    Here are 2 SAMLSON 2A2's for the US.

  45. #45

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    Redeco discussion here, please: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...t-2020-Edition

    Thank you!
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  46. #46

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    Excellent points re the SVA, Monse, certainly more to think on. Just for clarity, when I say "Italian fighter," I don't mean so much "Italian-made" as "operated on the Italian Front."
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  47. #47

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    the Ansaldo SVA 5 (single seater) and the SVA 10 (two seater) could be an opportunity to get an Italian plane that is not a fighter but was designed to be a fighter :
    Interesting presentation of the Ansaldo SVA Monse
    Indeed, Ares could produce both versions.

  48. #48

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    Glad to find a thread open for discussing this issue...that said...my two cents worth...
    Keeping in mind this is a game for the enthusiast and a business for the producer it strikes me that after all the current releases the option to follow previous production of scout and two-seaters of similar time/usage has passed it's usable concept for future releases.
    The current absence of widely used planes seems to point to Bristol Fighter, Sopwith Pup and Sopwith Dolphin, perhaps a few others indicates a possible final 10th series with the future aimed at regular reprints/new pilots.
    The natural desire for production that fills out the cards previously released with corresponding models seems possible.
    But as for the other exotic names (i.e. SAML, Voisin, Lloyd, Lohner, Martinsyde Elephant, Ilya Mauromets,etc.) I can only give thanks for Shapeways designers and our friends on the Aerodrome who have built maneuver deck information for these missing planes.
    I just don't see a profitable line for the producer, ARES, past one last release...the balance of special planes will most likely only be available from Shapeways.

  49. #49

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    I wish they would sell the maneuver decks as pdf or something. Make shapeways a better option if I could get a maneuver deck for the plane.

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by camelbeagle View Post
    I wish they would sell the maneuver decks as pdf or something. Make shapeways a better option if I could get a maneuver deck for the plane.
    But then that eliminates incentive to buy THEIR minis, if you can print-on-demand between PDF and Shapeways... no sales = no revenue = no new minis = Dead Like Nexus.
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