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Thread: A comprehensive set of speed and altitude data!

  1. #1

    Lightbulb A comprehensive set of speed and altitude data!

    The WWI flight sim Rise of Flight, as it turns out, has the aircraft speeds within the game rather inaccurate. The aircraft descriptions, however, give a list of speeds at altitudes that do agree with generally accepted figures, and are given for all the planes within Rise of Flight. That said, there are some figures that lead to some suspicion that the numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt. It's also worth pointing out that several planes in Rise of Flight aren't in WoG, and not all the planes in WoG are in Rise of Flight.

    That said, I made charts of the data. The horizontal lines correspond to WoG speed bands. (200 kph+: SPAD XIII for examole. 180-200 kph: most late war planes. 160-180 kph: many 1916-1917 planes; Albatross D.III, Fokker Dr. I for example;. 140-160 kph: DH.2 for example, slowest regular decks in the game for very early war aircraft.)


    And here they are. All airspeeds are in true airspeed, and I consider that for WoG speed bands only the sea level to 3000 m range should be used.

    First, the Brits:
    Name:  <acronym title=WoG Rise of Flight data Brits.jpg Views: 132 Size: 54.0 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

    Not a lot of surprises. The Sopwith Triplane does deserve the U deck, and everything is where it should be. But the DH.2 actually should be a speed band slower than the current slowest one in the game. The VVS (very very slow) deck in the files section would be more accurate. Makes "Bloody April" make more sense; the Albatross D.III should be two speed bands faster, not one! Perhaps for a "Bloody April" themed game give the Albatross D.III the B deck with three sideslips each way to compensate?

    Next, the French and other Entente aircraft:

    Name:  <acronym title=WoG Rise of Flight data France.jpg Views: 130 Size: 54.0 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

    Again, I only consider the sea level to 3000 meters levels for speed. Turns out the 180 hp version of the SPAD VII does deserve the A deck. The Nieuport 17 is slow for it's speed band, but does deserve the one it has. The Nieuport 11 seems anomalously fast; either the data is suspect, or the aircraft was slowed by one speed band for much required game balance reasons. The Nieuport 28 almost deserves the fastest speed band, but actually does not. The whole "shedding fabric at high speeds" thing would tend to argue against high speeds as well.

    Next up, two seaters and giants

    Name:  <acronym title=WoG Rise of Flight data two seaters.jpg Views: 132 Size: 53.4 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

    Some interesting results. The 0/400 is a speedy giant as it should be, and the Gotha is a very slow giant, as it should be. If we get the DFW, it probably should use the Y deck. And it's easy to see why the DH.4 often didn't need fighter escort. But some surprises as well. Seems the Breguet should use the K deck. Certainly would help with gameplay, as now you can catch it! And the BE2c should have the speed the DH2 has now, but (as above) the DH2 should be a speed band slower. But there's also what gives me the most suspicion about the data - it gives the 1 1/2 strutter Comic as slower than the regular version; it almost certainly should be the other way around. So take all the figures with a grain of salt.

    Finally, the Central Powers:

    Name:  <acronym title=WoG Rise of Flight data central powers.jpg Views: 108 Size: 54.5 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

    It needs to be pointed out that in 1918 there were two major inline engines - the Mercedes and the BMW. The BMW was superior, especially at altitudes, but there were shortages. The Fokker D.VIIF was a Fokker D.VII with the BMW engine; apparently every third or fourth D.VII had one. Considering the sea level-3000 meters altitudes for speed bands, it seems the Fokker D.VIIF should have the same moves as the D.VII, except with the straights, sideslips and turns with A deck speed! It would be a super-fighter, and historically was. Just not enough of them to gain air superiority.

    The Pfalz D.XII speeds given are for one fitted with the BMW engine, yet the Fokker DVII had priority for those, and likely few Pfalz's would be fitted with them. If we ever get the Pfalz D.XII, it would make a good variant for one of the three planes in a set compared to the other two.
    The Fokker Dr.I should have the D deck. It almost qualifies for the U deck, but in fact does not. The Fokker E.III might deserve the Very Very Slow deck as well.

    All in all, WoG gets things right, for this set of data. But the 1 1/2 strutter Comic issues leaves me wondering just how accurate the data is. If anybody's interested, the game descriptions gives equally comprehensive time to climb for multiple altitudes for each plane as well, if anybody's interested in rate of climb data for comparison to WoG.

  2. #2

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    HHmmm.... Very interesting data!!!!

  3. #3

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    One question that comes to mind is how accurate is RoF's data, and their simulation of it.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    One question that comes to mind is how accurate is RoF's data, and their simulation of it.
    Karl
    A very good question. However, a very important point has to be made - this is NOT flight testing data. This data is given at the bottom of each aircraft' description page, along with a bunch of other data. As such, no testing was needed, just copying it. It's general opinion that the data from the descriptions (i.e. this) is in general agreement with other sources; some data points are missing from some aircraft, which suggests it couldn't be found in any historical source, and this is entirely historical data (likely much of it a composite of multiple sources.) Still, the 1 1/2 strutter Comic suggests the data may not be entirely reliable. (However since a different set and number of data points is given compared to the regular strutter, that suggests they are using different sources entirely. It's also possible the info applies to versions with different engines.)

    The actual simulation in the game is wrong more often than it's right, often by a large margin. It's been confirmed the speeds the aircraft actually fly at in the game is well off, but at the same time it also doesn't match the data in the aircraft descriptions either. (Which is where this is from.) What we're looking at is a set of selected, filtered and composite historical data as chosen to be equivalent and comparable by a single group.

    To put it another way, this is what the Rise of Flight developers believed to be the closest to historically correct values they could find. Which doesn't mean there aren't any errors or issues. The actual in-game simulation is "downstream" of this, and is pretty lousy for airspeed.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BraselC5048 View Post
    ... this is what the Rise of Flight developers believed to be the closest to historically correct values they could find...
    Interesting info when seen displayed together but nothing in the data is new or very surprising; gaps and disparities are to be expected, fudging for game play a given.
    I've seen info that suggests the Strutter Comic had a heavier gross weight than the standard version with the same engine, was a fraction quicker at 10,000ft but took minutes longer to get to that altitude than its counterpart. Drag perhaps ? Don't know what the author's source is.
    Same source gives the DH.2 with a 100hp Gnome Mono engine 144kph at 5,000ft & 141kph at 9,000ft dropping rapidly after that, the 110hp Le Rhone is slower & better fits the profile shown. Bigger fuel tank, possibly heavier gun, higher Gross weight. So, again, depends which source is used to determine speed in game.
    The Breguet does use the K deck in WoG - well the bomber version does, the recon version uses the H deck.
    The BE2c uses the XB deck in the stats sheet so that's in line with the findings in the data.
    Wasn't the VVS (very very slow) deck in the files section for WW2 slow types ? A link would be helpful.
    All grist to the mill though; it would be nice to see how the Albatros C.III compares as it's a Wog model, against it's C.I variant too.
    Last edited by flash; 02-22-2020 at 07:00.

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #6

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    UPDATE: The data for the 1 1/2 strutter Comic above actually is NOT for that plane. It's for a different single seat strutter; I had assumed a single seat strutter would naturally be a Comic without actually confirming. (The aircraft name in the game was 1 1/2 Strutter B; it has a single forward firing Vickers, not a twin overwing lewis, so it's apparently some sort of field modification, not a Comic.)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by BraselC5048 View Post
    ...I had assumed a single seat strutter would naturally be a Comic ...
    Thereby confirming the age old adage Brasel !
    The Strutter was built and converted to be used as a single seat fighter, a single seat bomber and a single seat night fighter of which one type became known as the Comic. The latter was a field mod too.

    "He is wise who watches"



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