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Thread: OTT Cocky Young Men Campaign 1916

  1. #251

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Would like to join up for this but may take me some time to get up to speed
    Have a read of the OTT Cocky Young Men rules Barrie that will give you an idea on the requirements needed to join up. There's loads of time, so no rush. if you want to be one of the Kaiser's Eagles that would be a help, they're a bit thin on that side. Have a read of the AAR out there, that'll give you a good feel of what it's about.

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #252

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    Thanks chaps, it will be a cold winter I expect ! With most of the new types being Ares sculpts I hope that eases the numbers for you but I'm sure many are looking forward to their next Shapeway's delivery in anticipation.
    Once past this campaign we'll jump a month so we can finish the next one on Bloody April, brace up Bulldogs, that'll hurt !

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #253

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    All sounds good to me - might have to join the navy though. Can't have the sailors having all the fun with Pups and Tripes without joining in, now can we As for Bloody April - bring on the extra big spread sheet and a whole pile of new RFC (and RNAS of course) crew names. About two hundred and forty lines should do for the Bulldogs. I think its 66 for the Eagles

  4. #254

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    I'm sure many are looking forward to their next Shapeway's delivery in anticipation.
    Shapeways dispatched my order today and I recieved tracking information from UPS today as well. It will be interesting to see how long it takes to reach me from Holland and just how much customs are going to charge. Could be the last order for a very long time if this goes badly

  5. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Have a read of the OTT Cocky Young Men rules Barrie that will give you an idea on the requirements needed to join up. There's loads of time, so no rush. if you want to be one of the Kaiser's Eagles that would be a help, they're a bit thin on that side. Have a read of the AAR out there, that'll give you a good feel of what it's about.
    Hi Dave,

    Yes I have read the Cocky Young men rules and they all seem ok.
    I think I would like to join as the Kaiser Eagles for a change and happy to go ahead. May take a little while to get the AAR atmosphere right, some of those written on the previous campaign are excellent.

  6. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Yes I have read the Cocky Young men rules and they all seem ok.
    I think I would like to join as the Kaiser Eagles for a change and happy to go ahead. May take a little while to get the AAR atmosphere right, some of those written on the previous campaign are excellent.
    I hope you do join Barrie - the more the merrier. As for AAR atmosphere - let develop as it suits you. As least that's what I've done. The boundaries are pretty wide and if you stray outside them, Dave will haul you back inside.

  7. #257

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    Barrie, just have fun with it. Don't let the details of the report bog you down. Yes, it is time consuming. But, it is also very enjoyable.

  8. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Look forward to that Baz.

    Meanwhile, as the Cocky Young Men campaign comes to an end, thoughts turn to what's next.
    I'm looking at playing out the last quarter of 1916 using the same framework as we have played with the last two.

    There are some interesting and important types turning up in this time frame.

    October:

    *Spad VII: RFC: Oct16 - Jan18

    *Albatros D.II: Oct16

    Sopwith Pup: RNAS Oct16 - Apr17; RFC Dec16 until Dec17

    November:

    *RAF RE.8: Nov16 - two-seater - reconnaissance and bomber

    *Caproni Ca3: Heavy bomber. Intro dates vary from late 16 to early 17 for duration ?!

    December:

    *Albatros D.III: Dec16 (Feb17 out of service Halb D.II & Alb D.II stand in)

    *Sopwith Triplane: RNAS Dec16 until Nov17

    It will take a while to get the last results in and thrash out the admin so I'm looking at beginning of June for kick off.
    This time I will programme a break in August & December to help spread the gaming load.

    I think it might be the turn of the Bold Young Men to take to the air.
    That sounds really great Dave! I am catching up fast now with only 2 more CYM games to go.
    I also have a modification coming for the sawhorses I put my games table on which will bring it up to kitchen bench height to save my aging back!

  9. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Yes I have read the Cocky Young men rules and they all seem ok.
    I think I would like to join as the Kaiser Eagles for a change and happy to go ahead. May take a little while to get the AAR atmosphere right, some of those written on the previous campaign are excellent.
    Welcome to the "madness" Barrie from another Barry.
    You will have a ball & your AAR's will develop as you get to know your Kette Pilots & their characters.

  10. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Yes I have read the Cocky Young men rules and they all seem ok.
    I think I would like to join as the Kaiser Eagles for a change and happy to go ahead. May take a little while to get the AAR atmosphere right, some of those written on the previous campaign are excellent.
    Willkommen! from the very much under-represented Adler from one who has flown continuously for the Kaiser in OTT since 2015.

  11. #261

  12. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baz View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Yes I have read the Cocky Young men rules and they all seem ok.
    I think I would like to join as the Kaiser Eagles for a change and happy to go ahead. May take a little while to get the AAR atmosphere right, some of those written on the previous campaign are excellent.
    I shall await your PM and add your chaps to the roster when I create one.

    "He is wise who watches"

  13. #263

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    Welcome Baz - Us Bulldogs will be keeping a sharp lookout for you.

    Barrie, just have fun with it.
    What Dan said

    PS Re my Shapeways - Delighted to say the order arrived already with no complications at all - lots of painting to do now. But first, I have to try and learn how to produce decent "white" decals, with an ink jet. Getting there slowly, but it could involve a lot of costly errors. A bit like my missions then

  14. #264

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    we’ll have to see if the “unlucky” tag sticks, lol

  15. #265

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    Welcome Baz, it'll be good to have you along for the ride, the more of us the more vibrant the action will be.

    Dave last quarter of 1916 sounds ideal to me.

    Cheers

  16. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Welcome Baz, it'll be good to have you along for the ride, the more of us the more vibrant the action will be.

    Dave last quarter of 1916 sounds ideal to me.

    Cheers
    Sounds good to me too, John. Although I did blanch when I saw I'd be flying Nieuport 11s for two more missions!!!!! Seeing how well that last mission versus Albatri went. The good part is I have two more months to complete the last two Pups.

  17. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Sounds good to me too, John. Although I did blanch when I saw I'd be flying Nieuport 11s for two more missions!!!!! Seeing how well that last mission versus Albatri went. The good part is I have two more months to complete the last two Pups.
    You could fly Nieuport 17's but I'm not sure they're much better than 11's and it would be a shame not to get full value out of the finely painted 11's you have.
    Just grit your teeth and hang on in there.

  18. #268

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    Here's what I have for the planes in use in the Oct-Dec 1916 period, where "5" is very common and "1" is a handful in use:

    German -- from Frontbestand data
    German Fighters (Oct-Dec) -- a real mix of types until the Albatros D.II dominates in the latter part
    Albatros D.II (1-5)
    Fokker D.II (1-2)
    Albatros D.I (2-1)
    Fokker D.I (2-1)
    Halberstadt D.II (0-2)
    Halberstadt D.III (1-1)
    Halberstadt D.V (1-1)
    Fokker D.III (1-1)
    Fokker E.III (1-1)
    Fokker E.IV (1-1)
    Albatros D.III (0-1)
    LFG Roland D.I (1-1)
    SSW E.I (1-1)
    Pfalz E.I (1-1)
    Pfalz E.II (1-0)
    Fokker E.II (1-1)

    German Two-Seaters (Oct-Dec) -- Albatros C.III is most common but several other types are common.
    Albatros C.III (5-5)
    Rumpler C.I (4-3)
    LVG C.II (4-3)
    Albatros C.VII (2-4)
    Aviatik C.I (3-2)
    Albatros C.I (2-2)
    LVG C.IV (1-2)
    Albatros C.VI (2-1)
    LFG Roland C.II (1-2)
    Albatros C.V (1-1)
    Aviatik C.III (1-1)
    DFW C.V (1-1)
    AEG C.IV (1-1)
    Aviatik C.II (0-1)
    Ago C.I (1-1)
    DFW C.I (1-1)
    Ago C.IV (0-1)
    Also some B-planes: Albatros B.I/B.II, Rumpler B.I, LVG B.I/B.II.

    British -- from squadron histories
    British Fighters (Oct-Nov-Dec) -- BE12 is most common but doesn't see much front-line use; good variety after that.
    RAF BE12 (5-5-5)
    RAF FE2b (4-5-5)
    Airco DH2 (3-3-3)
    RAF FE8 (2-2-2)
    RAF FE2d (1-1-2)
    Bristol Scout (1-1-1)
    Nieuport 17 (1-1-1)
    Sopwith Pup (1-1-1)
    Sopwith Triplane (0-0-1)

    British Two-Seaters (Oct-Nov-Dec) -- BE2c is dominant but others also see use
    RAF BE2c (5-5-5)
    RAF BE2e (2-3-4)
    RAF FE2b (2-3-3)
    RAF BE2d (3-2-2)
    Sopwith Strutter (1-2-3)
    Martinsyde G.100/102 (1-1-1)
    RAF RE8 (0-1-1)
    Morane-Saulnier LA (1-1-1)

    French -- from Escadrille naming and history
    French Fighters (Oct-Nov-Dec) -- Nieuport 11 gives way to Nieuport 17
    Nieuport 11 (4-4-3)
    Nieuport 17 (2-3-5)
    Nieuport 16 (2-1-1)
    SPAD 7 (0-0-1)
    Nieuport 23/24 (0-0-1)

    French Two-Seaters (Oct-Nov-Dec) -- Farman F.40 and Caudron G.4 are the most common by far, but there are many other types in use in smaller numbers.
    Farman F.40 (5-5-5)
    Caudron G.4 (4-4-3)
    Voisin 5 (1-1-1)
    Nieuport 12 (1-1-1)
    Farman MF.11 (1-1-1)
    Caudron G.6 (1-1-2)
    Voisin 4 (1-1-1)
    Breguet 2/4/5 (1-1-1)
    Voisin 3 (1-1-1)
    Caudron R.4 (1-1-1)
    Sopwith Strutter (1-1-1)
    Voisin 8 (0-0-1)
    Nieuport 10 (1-1-0)
    Caproni CEP2 (1-1-1)

  19. #269

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    Great list, thanks Daryl. I have a good many of these to paint so it looks like now's the time.

  20. #270

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    I overlooked the large bombers (other than the French Caproni CEP2): The RNAS started using the Short Bomber in November 1916 and the Handley-Page O/100 may have seen some use in December 1916... or maybe it was January 1917 (sources differ). The Germans were using the AEG G.III, Gotha G.III, and Rumpler G.II (along with a scattered AEG G.II, Friedrichshafen G.II, Gotha G.I & G.II, and maybe a Gotha G.IV, Rumpler G.I, and Rumpler G.III). Some of the early R-planes were making their first runs on the Eastern Front.

    I know those large planes don't get used often in scenarios.

  21. #271

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    Thanks Daryl, I've rolled that into the new BYM rules doc.

    "He is wise who watches"

  22. #272

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    Daryl, these deep-dive research projects are always useful. Even outside of the campaign game series. You deserve rep!

  23. #273

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    I agree with Sam. That's really useful information. Thanks Daryl. Rep inbound, for this and for the lovely collection of your models I received from Shapeways a couple of days ago

  24. #274

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    Thanks Daryl this is brilliant information for us/me.

    I'm very much a novice and lightweight researcher but just wondered about a couple of planes. The BE12, I'd not really come across but was suprised that it was the most numerous British Fighter of the period but as you said didn't see much front line service. Should we be flying these in missions as scouts? I've usually been flying FE2b, DH2 and Moranes (because I had a couple of French Liason Pilots on my rosta) with the occasional Nieuport 11 thrown in.

    The other plane is the Nieuport 11, I know there weren't many of them in British service and what I've read normally refers to Nieuport single seat planes with out a specific designation but I wondered why they didn't appear in the British lists. Where their numbers really so very low?

    You dont mention the Morane single seat monoplane in either the British or French listing, is that now completely obsolete?

    Thanks again for the info and sorry for all the questions from a novice.
    Cheers

  25. #275

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    BE12s: A lot of the BE12s went to Home Defense or quieter fronts like Palestine or Macedonia. The handful of squadrons in France using them replaced them as quickly as possible when the limitations in maneuverability and speed became evident. Gen. Trenchard said in a memo: "...when it came to my deciding whether I would have them or nothing else I could not possibly say I would rather be without them then. But I am afraid now it is a question of not being able to afford the losses the use of them entails."

    Nieuport 11: The RNAS used about 19 Nieuport 11s. The RFC never used them. I do have No.203 Squadron (Naval #3) using N11's from November 1916 to Feb 1917 at St. Pol. It probably didn't make my charts because it got lost in the noise.

    Most of the Morane-Saulnier planes had been replaced with Nieuports by mid-1916, though there is a resurgence with the Type P in 1917 and the brief fascinating story of the AI in 1918.

  26. #276

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    Yet another fantastically useful data table, Daryl!

    Saved for later (probably continuous) use!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  27. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    BE12s: A lot of the BE12s went to Home Defense or quieter fronts like Palestine or Macedonia. The handful of squadrons in France using them replaced them as quickly as possible when the limitations in maneuverability and speed became evident. Gen. Trenchard said in a memo: "...when it came to my deciding whether I would have them or nothing else I could not possibly say I would rather be without them then. But I am afraid now it is a question of not being able to afford the losses the use of them entails."

    Nieuport 11: The RNAS used about 19 Nieuport 11s. The RFC never used them. I do have No.203 Squadron (Naval #3) using N11's from November 1916 to Feb 1917 at St. Pol. It probably didn't make my charts because it got lost in the noise.

    Most of the Morane-Saulnier planes had been replaced with Nieuports by mid-1916, though there is a resurgence with the Type P in 1917 and the brief fascinating story of the AI in 1918.
    Thanks for the info Daryl, it looks like I will really have to paint my Nieuport 17's. I'm suprised at the low numbers of 11's but as I said I'm a light weight researcher. I've found the RNAS very difficult to follow as they seem to create and disband flights/squadron on a very adhoc basis. Also looks like my Moranes are over the hill as well.

  28. #278

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    This may be of use....it's for 24 Feb 1917 but one can extrapolate backwards...

    From ‘The Royal Naval Air Service in the First World War: Aircraft and Events as Recorded in Official Documents” by Philip Jarrett

    24 Feb 1917 Dispositions

    No. 1 Wing – St. Pol
    2 X Nieuport 11 [Serials 3986, 3992]
    4 X Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) [Serials 3956, 3958, 8750, 8751]

    No. 4 Wing – Petite Synthe
    3 X Nieuport 11 [Serials 3981, 3987, 3994
    5 X Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) [Serials x3184, 3988 (crashed), 3989, 8746, 8747]

    Dunkirk Repair Depot
    1 X Nieuport 10 [Serial 3963]
    2 X Nieuport 11 [Serials 3991, 3993 (reserve)]

    No. 2 Wing – Mudros and Aegean
    1 X Nieuport 11 [Serial 3978]
    1 X Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) [Serial 3975]

    This website below states that the Nieuport 11 were Serials 3974-3994, which would mean that 3 of the above unspecified Nieuports are Nieuport 11 [Serials 3975, 3988 and 3989] for a total of 11 Nieuport 11 in service (10 after subtracting 3988 which crashed the previous day).

    https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/fr...ce-during-ww1/

    The summary lists the following:

    War Machines Class I
    27 Farman F.40 (150hp Renault) – 18 on order
    13 Handley Page (2 X 250hp Rolls Royce) – 25 on order
    18 Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) (i.e., 19 – 1 crashed)
    9 Nieuport 2-Seater (130h Clerget) – 1 on order
    1 Nieuport Single (130hp Clerget) – 124 on order
    54 Sopwith 9901 / Pup – 166 on order
    69 Sopwith 9400S / 1 ˝ Strutter Recce – 58 on order
    11 Sopwith 9400L / 1 ˝ Strutter Long Range Fighter – 1 on order
    103 Sopwith 9700 / 1 ˝ Strutter Bomber – 70 on order
    37 Sopwith Triplane – 85 on order
    1 Spad (150hp Hispano) – 150 on order

    Not on hand but on order:
    51 DH4 (190hp RR)
    52 DH4 (250hp RR)
    Order for 50 SE5 cancelled

    Total = 343 Class I present, 851 on order

    War Machines Class II include:
    82 BE2C
    4 BE2E – 3 on order
    3 Breguet Concours (250hp RR) – 9 on order
    3 Breguet Concours (250hp Renault)
    64 Bristol Scout (80hp Gnome) – 45 on order
    49 Bristol Scout (100 Mono) – 2 on order
    17 Caudron Twin (2 X 100 hp Anzani) – 20 on order
    48 H. Farman (135-160hp C.Unne) – 37 on order
    68 Nieuport 2-Seater (110hp Clerget) – 7 on order
    13 Short Bomber (240hp Sunbeam) – 2 on order
    25 Short Bomber (250hp RR) – 5 on order

    Total = 376 Class II with 130 on order
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 04-21-2021 at 13:28.

  29. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    This may be of use....it's for 24 Feb 1917 but one can extrapolate backwards...

    From ‘The Royal Naval Air Service in the First World War: Aircraft and Events as Recorded in Official Documents” by Philip Jarrett

    24 Feb 1917 Dispositions

    No. 1 Wing – St. Pol
    2 X Nieuport 11 [Serials 3986, 3992]
    4 X Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) [Serials 3956, 3958, 8750, 8751]

    No. 4 Wing – Petite Synthe
    3 X Nieuport 11 [Serials 3981, 3987, 3994
    5 X Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) [Serials x3184, 3988 (crashed), 3989, 8746, 8747]

    Dunkirk Repair Depot
    1 X Nieuport 10 [Serial 3963]
    2 X Nieuport 11 [Serials 3991, 3993 (reserve)]

    No. 2 Wing – Mudros and Aegean
    1 X Nieuport 11 [Serial 3978]
    1 X Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) [Serial 3975]

    This website below states that the Nieuport 11 were Serials 3974-3994, which would mean that 3 of the above unspecified Nieuports are Nieuport 11 [Serials 3975, 3988 and 3989] for a total of 11 Nieuport 11 in service.

    https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/fr...ce-during-ww1/

    The summary lists the following:

    War Machines Class I
    27 Farman F.40 (150hp Renault) – 18 on order
    13 Handley Page (2 X 250hp Rolls Royce) – 25 on order
    18 Nieuport Single (80hp Rhone) (i.e., 19 – 1 crashed)
    9 Nieuport 2-Seater (130h Clerget) – 1 on order
    1 Nieuport Single (130hp Clerget) – 124 on order
    54 Sopwith 9901 / Pup – 166 on order
    69 Sopwith 9400S / 1 ˝ Strutter Recce – 58 on order
    11 Sopwith 9400L / 1 ˝ Strutter Long Range Fighter – 1 on order
    103 Sopwith 9700 / 1 ˝ Strutter Bomber – 70 on order
    37 Sopwith Triplane – 85 on order
    1 Spad (150hp Hispano) – 150 on order

    Not on hand but on order:
    51 DH4 (190hp RR)
    52 DH4 (250hp RR)
    Order for 50 SE5 cancelled

    Total = 343 Class I present, 851 on order

    War Machines Class II include:
    82 BE2C
    4 BE2E – 3 on order
    3 Breguet Concours (250hp RR) – 9 on order
    3 Breguet Concours (250hp Renault)
    64 Bristol Scout (80hp Gnome) – 45 on order
    49 Bristol Scout (100 Mono) – 2 on order
    17 Caudron Twin (2 X 100 hp Anzani) – 20 on order
    48 H. Farman (135-160hp C.Unne) – 37 on order
    68 Nieuport 2-Seater (110hp Clerget) – 7 on order
    13 Short Bomber (240hp Sunbeam) – 2 on order
    25 Short Bomber (250hp RR) – 5 on order

    Total = 376 Class II with 130 on order
    Thanks Paul. Interesting Stats.
    Certainly a very mixed Bag of models & makes.

  30. #280

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    Yes, thanks Paul. Nice to have that info to hand

  31. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Yes, thanks Paul. Nice to have that info to hand
    You are welcome. There's a lot more detail if people want it. We're lucky to have it as the dispositions were done daily and, on receipt of the current dispositions, the previous one was supposed to be destroyed. This one from 24 Feb 1917 was by chance.

    Jarrett's book has the following documents:

    Diary of Important Operations, Flanders, 1916
    A number of photographs (e.g., shipboard trials in HMS Furious)
    Disposition of Aircraft, 24th February 1917
    RNAS Communiques Nos 1 to 14 (for the period 2 July 1917 to 31 January 1918)
    Manual for "Truing-Up Aeroplanes"
    Drawings by Mr. Howard Earl at the RNAS seaplane repair station at Port Victoria, Isle of Grain, Kent.

    Lots of interesting material - but not a book one reads cover to cover.

  32. #282

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    I'll see what the price tag is like, if its still available - oooh Ł30.00 from Naval Wings. Mmmmmm???? Oops, Ł10.78 from Amazon Couldn't resist that! So now, "Taim i dtriobloid" as your Irish spy would say "What, another book" my dearest will say
    Well done Paul - No really, thats a thank you.

  33. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    So now, "Taim i dtriobloid" as your Irish spy would say "What, another book" my dearest will say
    Sea, tá tú.

  34. #284

  35. #285

    Smile

    Played Mission 11 today on my now elevated Games table in the garage. Makes a big difference having the table up at kitchen bench height. My back really appreciates it!

    Only one more mission to finish off the CYM campaign & should get that done before next weekend.

    AAR for M 11 should get done & posted tomorrow or Tuesday.

  36. #286

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    Congrats Baz - go man go Know what you mean about the back issue - sign of less youth than before huh?

  37. #287

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    I'm with you Baz! Go Go GO! I have 11 to tidy up and then 12 at the wire.

  38. #288

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    Well done chaps - I'm working on the rosters for BYM so sooner you all get done the better ! For those that are not already at Gold level I'm indenting for the next level campaign medal for you so expect to see a notification in your inbox soon and congrats to all.

    "He is wise who watches"

  39. #289

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    Flash, this has been a blast. Ready for the next. I need to get so me paint on those Pups! The Bulldogs are going to need them!

  40. #290

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    Cheers Uncle - looking forward to BYM and the paint brushes are burning to prepare for it. Not doing such a good job with the decals though - trying hard PS Would I be right in thinking it snowed quite a lot during the winter of 1916 - 17? Or was that only on the Italien front?

  41. #291

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    For those that are not already at Gold level I'm indenting for the next level campaign medal for you so expect to see a notification in your inbox soon and congrats to all.
    Got a notice through my inbox Many thanks Uncle and the drinks are on me tonight

  42. #292

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    Mission 12 has been flown. Photos edited....now to get it written up and posted by midnight!

  43. #293

    Thumbs up

    Likewise for me. Flew it this morning & just finished resizing & cropping the pics.

    AAR will be done tomorrow YEE-HAA!

  44. #294

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    Yay ! That'll keep me busy when the rain comes !

    "He is wise who watches"

  45. #295

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    Congrats guys - looking forward to reading the AARs

  46. #296

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    Just waiting to see if Paul (Tikkifriend) is doing a mission 12 and that's a wrap for CYM.
    Well done everyone

    "He is wise who watches"

  47. #297

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    I have indented for Campaign Medals for those who have qualified.. hopefully you have all received them.. however, check your AAR count for qualification for the After Action Report Medals. I have indented for the silver level for Mike as I know he has done 50 AAR with the WW1 OTT but others here play other campaigns and submit further AAR so I cannot be sure whether you have yet received the correct gongs for your efforts.
    You can request them yourselves.

    "He is wise who watches"

  48. #298

  49. #299

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    Paul (Tikkifriend) is playing Mission 12 so once done I will close this out and finish the rosters for BYM

    "He is wise who watches"

  50. #300

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    Now we have all finished and called time on the CYM Campaign I will close this thread. The OTT BYM Campaign Mess sticky is now open for business.

    "He is wise who watches"

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