Everyone's in the do-do with their SWMBO - it's just the depth that varies....
Everyone's in the do-do with their SWMBO - it's just the depth that varies....
"He is wise who watches"
We have talked of doing this before but the too difficult light came on as to what criteria to use - anyone could crash at any time, even aces crashed from time to time for one reason or another.
Those shot up may be more likely to have an accident but taking account of all eventualities would be nigh on impossible - so where do we draw the line ?
Mulling it over today I was wondering whether to try a more limited approach based around a mechanic we're already using - FRTB.
Pilots are FRTB (Forced Return To Base) for a number of reasons - wounded, engine, fire & combat damage, all of which might put an aircraft at risk of a crash when it attempts a landing.
To that end I have added a FRTB -1 modifier on the end of the modifier list with a simple mechanic:
So, if your pilots are FRTB-E/W/F/D.. Roll2D6 - Crash on a double. If you do then roll for the C/W result.
If you like the idea give it a whirl - it adds a little jeopardy to FRTB & colour to the campaign - if it works it'll stay in as a rule for the next campaign.
"He is wise who watches"
It's interesting but I'm not included to use it. Sure planes crashed from time to time - even if not damaged, but I don't see what this adds to the storytelling over the risks we already have - and could even detract from the storytelling, which is the only point for the C&W/E&E rolls at all.
So you roll 2D6 if FRTB and must get doubles: That's a 17% chance of a possible wound.
Then roll on the C&W chart: a 2 or 3 total on two dice will kill your pilot: That's 8%
Total Odds of KIA: 1.39%
And, keep in mind, you currently roll for a Wounded Pilot, so this lessens the odds now since you must roll doubles first.
I think it's viable.
That said, with my luck I will lose one of my aces ....
Not sure what the risks are when the grandfather storytelling includes two pilots involved in the action..?
You'd still have to roll for a wounded pilot if you passed the FRTB crash roll Pete, it just means your pilot stuck the landing !
"He is wise who watches"
Does that mean if you pass the first roll and don't prang you get the +1 RTB modifier?
Or just that you won't be subject to a possible WIC?
i.e. If a wounded pilot fails the initial roll will he be subject to -1 for the prang and -1 for the wound?
If that is the case I feel that if a pilot successfully lands from an FRTB he should get the +1 RTB modifier.
When FRTB, the 2D6 roll is to see if you crash or not - if you crash you roll for C/W as normal; the RTB modifier is counted as you're on or near your airfield but it's negated by the FRTB -1 Modifier that represents the crash.
If you don't crash then the plane is RTB & no further action required unless crew are wounded in which case you're rolling for the wounded as usual.
So, in the example you've given:
Yes - If a wounded pilot fails the crash roll he will be subject to +1RTB, -1 for the FRTB and -1 for the wound.
Yes - If a wounded pilot passes the crash roll he will be subject to +1RTB and -1 for the wound as usual.
WIC modifier does not apply as E&E is not applicable in these cases.
Thanks for giving it a go Pete, it may be we need to adjust the chances of a crash - ie on odd or even doubles, or, just snake eyes but we'll learn that as we go along.
Last edited by flash; 10-28-2020 at 01:55.
"He is wise who watches"
There are several plausible explanations in the event one or both pilots are KIA. I have a few ideas in waiting.
if it should be that one or both are KIA/PoW/wounded for the duration then the stories will carry on without them. I’m ready for that eventuality too.
The risks are the same for them as all the other aircrew.
I believe the RTB modifier was reduced from +3 to ÷1 for this campaign so making it more likely to effectivly crash and die on landing this year than last, so I'm not sure I would favour reducing the odds of survival further.
I guess it depends what you are trying to achieve, if it's more realism then this would work, but for realism the chance of living through an explosion in mid air is very remote, similarly being shot down in a ball of flame. So if you want to increase pilot turnover and realism you can make these events as deadly as they were in real life but I'm not sure what increasing pilot turnover will bring to the campaign.
By reducing this possibility of death in the C&W section for the events I mentioned it means pilots probably live longer in our campaign than they did in reality but it also allows ongoing pilot stories to develop, which as you know is one of the things I enjoy about the AAR's, both mine and others.
The difference between a campaign game and a one off game is that there is a level of continuity and progression and story in the campaign which presumably appeals to all of us taking part. We all name our pilots rather than have Pilot A or Pilot B, some of us have faces for our pilots and I imagine we all remember past events for those pilots as each game progresses.
So will reducing pilot survivability, increase or reduce everyone's enjoyment of taking part in the Campaign, there are arguments for both views. I enjoy introducing new characters and sometimes am glad to see the back of others. My Bulldog turnover has been exceptionally low with just 2 KIA but on balance I wouldn't favour increasing the turnover rate, but I'm happy to go with the majority on this.
The RTB modifier was reduced so that if landing wounded there was a chance you'd bleed out & die - but that only happens if you roll snake eyes. That's only happened once to one of us since introduced for the DYM campaign... I think we can call that minimal impact.
Crashing on a FRTB adds a little jeopardy & colour - it only happens if you roll a double (which may be adjusted yet) - you make a C/W roll... you'd still have to roll snake eyes to die, unless wounded, ... You may lose a few injured of course..
You may roll 9+ and they walk away from the wreck unscathed... It's not crash and die like you seem to imply.
Last edited by flash; 10-29-2020 at 08:25.
"He is wise who watches"
I intend to try this on my next mission.
Hope to have it posted Saturday - Sunday at the latest.
I'm away next weekend for a week or so, so not in a position to process it, just so you're aware Pete.
Same with your BRF unless you put that up tomorrow.
"He is wise who watches"
Hi Dave
I'm not implying it's crash and die, because rolling a double 1 is about a 3% possibility so one does not automatically follow the other, only that the chance of that has increased.
What I'm not implying but stating for a fact it that increasing the options to take that test will reduce pilot survivability.
My observation is "will this increase or reduce our enjoyment in an ongoing campaign".
My opinion is, in my case, it will reduce it, not by much because as I said I enjoy introducing new characters into my flight and death is certainly a good way to do that. Everyone will have a different opinion which is as it should be and I may find this to be a good thing, it depends who I lose.
However what I omitted to say originally was that I'm really pleased and also grateful that you and others are continually striving to improve the whole concept of the campaign and making changes to existing ideas, looking for better ways to do things is all part of that ongoing process which I warmly applaud.
That's the plan. I've been asked many times whether we should roll for landings with damaged planes/wounded pilots & we discussed it here many moons ago but it was thought too complex & fiddly. Then we didn't have FRTB, now we do we have a mechanic that identifies models to which something can be applied & makes sense - wounded pilot, damaged engine, aircraft; multiples thereof that force you out of battle.
As it stands at the moment there is a 1 in 6 chance of a prang, 1 in 36 chance of KIA if you prang (higher if WIA) so the chances of injury/death are higher certainly but the chances are that most will stick the landing and walk into the Mess for a brew.
We won't know until someone tries it for real, if it's thought the chances are too high we can adjust that, if not everyone's cup of tea it can be an optional rule for those that like it. Simples.
"He is wise who watches"
Three crashes recorded amongst the FRTB from three players so far, all survived the process without injury.
"He is wise who watches"
Just a heads up for the December Scenario.
Do the players have models of trucks which they might like to use or will it be necessary to have card sized prints on the table. A combo of the 2 might be the answer in which case I will search the files for a template you can place you trucks on the centre dot .
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
We've used truck cards before so most of us should have them. I forget exactly which mission that was but they should be in the files.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=403 heres the link to the truck cards
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Nice one Paul.
"He is wise who watches"
Due to our new year's break I have re-scheduled the final two missions -
Mar: - Baz (Gully_raker) - Week 11 Sep 19th
Apr: - Mike (Mikeemagnus) - Week 12 Sep 27th
Hope that's OK for you Baz ? If not Onkel will ask for a volunteer, Dan...
"He is wise who watches"
HHmmm... I could come up with something. Let me know.
If needed I can do Mission 11.
Thanks chaps, we'll see nearer the time - I think the new boy may want to take a shot at the full OTT experience if Baz is not in a position to oblige.
"He is wise who watches"
I will gladly help out if needed!!!!
Thanks Dan, you will be the Go To !
"He is wise who watches"
Month of catch up to go chaps then back to it for the last two missions.
Mar: - Baz (Gully_raker) - or - Dan (camelbeagle) - Week 11 Sep 19th
Apr: - Mike (Mikeemagnus) - Week 12 Sep 27th
I've used the time to create more planes, fight in Play by PM games, create a D* chart solo chart, post some AAR and, by the time we get to it, got a year older.
Thoughts turning toward what's next ... the back end of '16, Deep Pan Lewis, the mighty Jasta's; Pups, Albatrii, Nieuports
"He is wise who watches"
Sounds like Flash has had a busy downtime!
Need to get moving on my pups if I want them in flyable service!
I am still struggling to get back in the Air.
Things keep popping up like my annual Optometrist visit, Dental Clinic. new roller door to be fitted to rear of Garage for security. replace rear tail light on the Commodore which my neighbour backed into with his traytop ute (he has paid!) & building a bookcase to store books still in boxes.
I think it might be best if Dan does the March BRF but I will try to get some missions flown this month.
I will start getting one together.
Good afternoon all. A rules question if I may please. I'm half way through mission 10 (Exciting - not going too well or too badly for the RFC, yet ) and One of my Bulldogs fired his last round before needing to reload. But the shot jammed his gun (Lewis firing B on a Nieuport 17) Does he need to take three manoeuvres to change the drum and clear the jam, or is it three for each making six?
While I'm at it, I also hope I'm doing the right thing by allowing a random selection of target between other aircraft and the convoy; or indeed a deliberate decision to do so, in attack or defense, because that is the purpose of the mission. What do you all think, especially Uncle.
Dave, if you think this should be on the Mission 10 BRF thread, please say and I'll move it.
Thanks in advance for any replies,
Mike
Replacing a magazine usually clears a jam in real life so I only take three manoeuvres for a reload.
Target what is convenient to you and the mission - don't forget, being the I in AI is what makes it work !
"He is wise who watches"
Cheers Uncle - the perfect reply Thanks
I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
Coming down is the hardest thing
Only just spotted this reply from you Paul Nice one. Big fan of the Python Gang me
Played Mission 10 today "Keep on Trucking".
Bit of a marathon. 12 Turns in all.
Should have the AAR posted tomorrow afternoon.
Look forward to that Baz.
Meanwhile, as the Cocky Young Men campaign comes to an end, thoughts turn to what's next.
I'm looking at playing out the last quarter of 1916 using the same framework as we have played with the last two.
There are some interesting and important types turning up in this time frame.
October:
*Spad VII: RFC: Oct16 - Jan18
*Albatros D.II: Oct16
Sopwith Pup: RNAS Oct16 - Apr17; RFC Dec16 until Dec17
November:
*RAF RE.8: Nov16 - two-seater - reconnaissance and bomber
*Caproni Ca3: Heavy bomber. Intro dates vary from late 16 to early 17 for duration ?!
December:
*Albatros D.III: Dec16 (Feb17 out of service Halb D.II & Alb D.II stand in)
*Sopwith Triplane: RNAS Dec16 until Nov17
It will take a while to get the last results in and thrash out the admin so I'm looking at beginning of June for kick off.
This time I will programme a break in August & December to help spread the gaming load.
I think it might be the turn of the Bold Young Men to take to the air.
"He is wise who watches"
Looks good Dave. I like the idea of continuing on into the next surge of new planes through the end of 1916.
Sounds good to me.
I was looking forward to all the new aircraft introductions - it will give me a chance to finally get my Sopwith Pups to the table.
Looks good all around - historical period and game time table, Dave.
Would like to join up for this but may take me some time to get up to speed
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