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Thread: OTT Cocky Young Men Campaign 1916

  1. #201

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    Everyone's in the do-do with their SWMBO - it's just the depth that varies....

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #202

  3. #203

    Default Cracking Up On Landing

    We have talked of doing this before but the too difficult light came on as to what criteria to use - anyone could crash at any time, even aces crashed from time to time for one reason or another.
    Those shot up may be more likely to have an accident but taking account of all eventualities would be nigh on impossible - so where do we draw the line ?
    Mulling it over today I was wondering whether to try a more limited approach based around a mechanic we're already using - FRTB.

    Pilots are FRTB (Forced Return To Base) for a number of reasons - wounded, engine, fire & combat damage, all of which might put an aircraft at risk of a crash when it attempts a landing.
    To that end I have added a FRTB -1 modifier on the end of the modifier list with a simple mechanic:

    So, if your pilots are FRTB-E/W/F/D.. Roll2D6 - Crash on a double. If you do then roll for the C/W result.

    If you like the idea give it a whirl - it adds a little jeopardy to FRTB & colour to the campaign - if it works it'll stay in as a rule for the next campaign.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #204

  5. #205

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    It's interesting but I'm not included to use it. Sure planes crashed from time to time - even if not damaged, but I don't see what this adds to the storytelling over the risks we already have - and could even detract from the storytelling, which is the only point for the C&W/E&E rolls at all.

  6. #206

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    So you roll 2D6 if FRTB and must get doubles: That's a 17% chance of a possible wound.


    Then roll on the C&W chart: a 2 or 3 total on two dice will kill your pilot: That's 8%

    Total Odds of KIA: 1.39%

    And, keep in mind, you currently roll for a Wounded Pilot, so this lessens the odds now since you must roll doubles first.

    I think it's viable.


    That said, with my luck I will lose one of my aces ....

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    ... I don't see what this adds to the storytelling over the risks we already have...
    Not sure what the risks are when the grandfather storytelling includes two pilots involved in the action..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    ... you currently roll for a Wounded Pilot, so this lessens the odds now since you must roll doubles first...
    You'd still have to roll for a wounded pilot if you passed the FRTB crash roll Pete, it just means your pilot stuck the landing !

    "He is wise who watches"

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    You'd still have to roll for a wounded pilot if you passed the FRTB crash roll Pete, it just means your pilot stuck the landing !
    Does that mean if you pass the first roll and don't prang you get the +1 RTB modifier?
    Or just that you won't be subject to a possible WIC?

    i.e. If a wounded pilot fails the initial roll will he be subject to -1 for the prang and -1 for the wound?


    If that is the case I feel that if a pilot successfully lands from an FRTB he should get the +1 RTB modifier.

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Does that mean if you pass the first roll and don't prang you get the +1 RTB modifier?
    Or just that you won't be subject to a possible WIC?
    i.e. If a wounded pilot fails the initial roll will he be subject to -1 for the prang and -1 for the wound?
    If that is the case I feel that if a pilot successfully lands from an FRTB he should get the +1 RTB modifier.
    When FRTB, the 2D6 roll is to see if you crash or not - if you crash you roll for C/W as normal; the RTB modifier is counted as you're on or near your airfield but it's negated by the FRTB -1 Modifier that represents the crash.
    If you don't crash then the plane is RTB & no further action required unless crew are wounded in which case you're rolling for the wounded as usual.

    So, in the example you've given:
    Yes - If a wounded pilot fails the crash roll he will be subject to +1RTB, -1 for the FRTB and -1 for the wound.
    Yes - If a wounded pilot passes the crash roll he will be subject to +1RTB and -1 for the wound as usual.

    WIC modifier does not apply as E&E is not applicable in these cases.

    Thanks for giving it a go Pete, it may be we need to adjust the chances of a crash - ie on odd or even doubles, or, just snake eyes but we'll learn that as we go along.
    Last edited by flash; 10-28-2020 at 02:55.

    "He is wise who watches"

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Not sure what the risks are when the grandfather storytelling includes two pilots involved in the action
    There are several plausible explanations in the event one or both pilots are KIA. I have a few ideas in waiting.

    if it should be that one or both are KIA/PoW/wounded for the duration then the stories will carry on without them. I’m ready for that eventuality too.

    The risks are the same for them as all the other aircrew.

  11. #211

    Default

    I believe the RTB modifier was reduced from +3 to ÷1 for this campaign so making it more likely to effectivly crash and die on landing this year than last, so I'm not sure I would favour reducing the odds of survival further.
    I guess it depends what you are trying to achieve, if it's more realism then this would work, but for realism the chance of living through an explosion in mid air is very remote, similarly being shot down in a ball of flame. So if you want to increase pilot turnover and realism you can make these events as deadly as they were in real life but I'm not sure what increasing pilot turnover will bring to the campaign.

    By reducing this possibility of death in the C&W section for the events I mentioned it means pilots probably live longer in our campaign than they did in reality but it also allows ongoing pilot stories to develop, which as you know is one of the things I enjoy about the AAR's, both mine and others.

    The difference between a campaign game and a one off game is that there is a level of continuity and progression and story in the campaign which presumably appeals to all of us taking part. We all name our pilots rather than have Pilot A or Pilot B, some of us have faces for our pilots and I imagine we all remember past events for those pilots as each game progresses.

    So will reducing pilot survivability, increase or reduce everyone's enjoyment of taking part in the Campaign, there are arguments for both views. I enjoy introducing new characters and sometimes am glad to see the back of others. My Bulldog turnover has been exceptionally low with just 2 KIA but on balance I wouldn't favour increasing the turnover rate, but I'm happy to go with the majority on this.

  12. #212

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    The RTB modifier was reduced so that if landing wounded there was a chance you'd bleed out & die - but that only happens if you roll snake eyes. That's only happened once to one of us since introduced for the DYM campaign... I think we can call that minimal impact.

    Crashing on a FRTB adds a little jeopardy & colour - it only happens if you roll a double (which may be adjusted yet) - you make a C/W roll... you'd still have to roll snake eyes to die, unless wounded, ... You may lose a few injured of course..
    You may roll 9+ and they walk away from the wreck unscathed... It's not crash and die like you seem to imply.
    Last edited by flash; 10-29-2020 at 09:25.

    "He is wise who watches"

  13. #213

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    I intend to try this on my next mission.

    Hope to have it posted Saturday - Sunday at the latest.

  14. #214

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    I'm away next weekend for a week or so, so not in a position to process it, just so you're aware Pete.
    Same with your BRF unless you put that up tomorrow.

    "He is wise who watches"

  15. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I'm away next weekend for a week or so, so not in a position to process it, just so you're aware Pete.
    Same with your BRF unless you put that up tomorrow.
    OK I will hold off posting it until your return.
    Gives me more time to iron out wrinkles.

  16. #216

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The RTB modifier was reduced so that if landing wounded there was a chance you'd bleed out & die - but that only happens if you roll snake eyes. That's only happened once to one of us since introduced for the DYM campaign... I think we can call that minimal impact.

    Crashing on a FRTB adds a little jeopardy & colour - it only happens if you roll a double (which may be adjusted yet) - you make a C/W roll... you'd still have to roll snake eyes to die, unless wounded, ... You may lose a few injured of course..
    You may roll 9+ and they walk away from the wreck unscathed... It's not crash and die like you seem to imply.
    Hi Dave
    I'm not implying it's crash and die, because rolling a double 1 is about a 3% possibility so one does not automatically follow the other, only that the chance of that has increased.

    What I'm not implying but stating for a fact it that increasing the options to take that test will reduce pilot survivability.

    My observation is "will this increase or reduce our enjoyment in an ongoing campaign".

    My opinion is, in my case, it will reduce it, not by much because as I said I enjoy introducing new characters into my flight and death is certainly a good way to do that. Everyone will have a different opinion which is as it should be and I may find this to be a good thing, it depends who I lose.

    However what I omitted to say originally was that I'm really pleased and also grateful that you and others are continually striving to improve the whole concept of the campaign and making changes to existing ideas, looking for better ways to do things is all part of that ongoing process which I warmly applaud.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I intend to try this on my next mission.

    Hope to have it posted Saturday - Sunday at the latest.
    This sounds intriguing, now I've caught up I'm really looking forward to the next mission.

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ..However what I omitted to say originally was that I'm really pleased and also grateful that you and others are continually striving to improve the whole concept of the campaign and making changes to existing ideas..
    That's the plan. I've been asked many times whether we should roll for landings with damaged planes/wounded pilots & we discussed it here many moons ago but it was thought too complex & fiddly. Then we didn't have FRTB, now we do we have a mechanic that identifies models to which something can be applied & makes sense - wounded pilot, damaged engine, aircraft; multiples thereof that force you out of battle.
    As it stands at the moment there is a 1 in 6 chance of a prang, 1 in 36 chance of KIA if you prang (higher if WIA) so the chances of injury/death are higher certainly but the chances are that most will stick the landing and walk into the Mess for a brew.
    We won't know until someone tries it for real, if it's thought the chances are too high we can adjust that, if not everyone's cup of tea it can be an optional rule for those that like it. Simples.

    "He is wise who watches"

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I'm away next weekend for a week or so, so not in a position to process it, just so you're aware Pete.
    Same with your BRF unless you put that up tomorrow.
    I decided to post Mission 9 today after all since I want to fly it next weekend while SWMBO is away for a Girls' Weekend.


    That way if there any issues with it I can correct them.

  20. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I decided to post Mission 9 today after all since I want to fly it next weekend while SWMBO is away for a Girls' Weekend.......
    Didn't expect it to be held up Pete, thought you meant your AAR - As we're entering a second Lockdown I'll be back sooner than we thought !

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #221

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    Three crashes recorded amongst the FRTB from three players so far, all survived the process without injury.

    "He is wise who watches"

  22. #222

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    Just a heads up for the December Scenario.

    Do the players have models of trucks which they might like to use or will it be necessary to have card sized prints on the table. A combo of the 2 might be the answer in which case I will search the files for a template you can place you trucks on the centre dot .


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  23. #223

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    We've used truck cards before so most of us should have them. I forget exactly which mission that was but they should be in the files.

  24. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Just a heads up for the December Scenario.
    Do the players have models of trucks which they might like to use or will it be necessary to have card sized prints on the table. A combo of the 2 might be the answer in which case I will search the files for a template you can place you trucks on the centre dot .
    No models for me Paul, I have some cards somewhere from a previous scenario but like Peter can't recall which mission that was from so maybe some card option will fit the bill.

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #225

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    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=403 heres the link to the truck cards


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  26. #226

    Default

    Nice one Paul.

    "He is wise who watches"

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