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Thread: Poor quality of recent planes

  1. #51

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    There are alot planes that have (slightly) different colour schemes.

    We had a (small) threat for this:

    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...mes-Nexus-Ares

    Perhaps we could make a "sticky" one and collect the differences and prove them by photo compares?

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMad17 View Post
    This is a very helpful thread!

    would there be any way to tell the difference between a 2013 Series 1A SPAD XIII Rickenbacker and a 2019 1B reprint of it when it's still in the package?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    The original 2007 Nexus ones came in blue boxes.
    The 1st reprint by ARES came in the green/brown box with the hanging tab part of the box. This box has the 2012 date on it.
    The latest ARES reprint is in the green/brown box with the 2011/2018 date on it.

    Good evening, I'm sorry, but I don't have Rickenbacker's Spad XIII to inform you, but a few others, taking them out of their boxes and looking closely a Spad XIII Baracca Wings of War Nexus 2007 model and the Spad XIII Madon Wings of Glory Ares 2012.

    Outside the decoration, we will find these same differences on the three Spad of Rickenbacker

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    We can see that the wings are of different dimensions from one model to another


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    The tips of the wings are more rounded



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    Ares kept the "metallic" fuselage of the 1st Nexus series and corrected the wingspan for his first Wings of Glory series


    it seems to have been reinforced (as on the P 47 of Morhle, see above)


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    Edit :


    I never took the measurements of the Spad XIII, but monse told me that it did not have the right dimensions, it was rather on a 1/160 scale than 1/144 unlike the Spad VII rather very successful , and I don't know what last series are going to be like ?
    But i look forward to my Spad XIII Chavannes ordered from which is coming soon from the USA maybe for the Bastille Day (July 14) !
    Attached Images   
    Last edited by Spad VII; 07-08-2020 at 06:38.

  3. #53

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    Thanks all!

    @Bruno, I'd be interested to see pictures of the Chavannes one when it arrives!

  4. #54

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    I have to admit. I like the detail of the wheels on the Wings of War planes a lot better than the poor tire decals they have used on the recent ones.

  5. #55

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    And at the wow Planes the Propeller and the wheels are rotatable.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfgard View Post
    And at the wow Planes the Propeller and the wheels are rotatable.
    I think movable props ended at Series 2 or 3, definitely before 4 though.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  7. #57

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    Does anyone have real pictures of both versions of the Kempf Dr.I they could post side by side? Looking at the Marketing pictures only helps so much...

    Thanks!

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMad17 View Post
    Does anyone have real pictures of both versions of the Kempf Dr.I they could post side by side? Looking at the Marketing pictures only helps so much...

    Thanks!
    Here are 4 photos of the two. Original on the left, latest version on the right. The new version has considerably thicker wings.

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  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Here are 4 photos of the two. Original on the left, latest version on the right. The new version has considerably thicker wings.
    What exactly is the reason for such ugly thick wings? Production costs?
    I have no WGF collection yet. Ordered and received just one plane recently: The SE5a-Dallas with its delicate thin wings.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMad17 View Post
    Thanks all!

    @Bruno, I'd be interested to see pictures of the Chavannes one when it arrives!
    Hi Max

    I received it today here are some photos :

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    I put aside the Spad XIII Coadou 2012 W.O.G Ares and the Fonck Wings of WAR 2008

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    Attached Images     

  11. #61

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    Oooo, your Chavennes is really nice. Unfortunately the one I have came with the spider decal all messed up. I may have to get another if I can see it first.

  12. #62

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    Thanks Peter, very helpful!

    @Bruno, that does look nice, much better than I expected based on the marketing photos.

    Does anyone have a comparison between the original WoW Fonck and the new WOG one?

  13. #63

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    I have both the original and the recent release. The recent release is a mess compared to the original. The wings on my came detached. The decals all wrinkled up. Cannot even tell that the stork on the side is a stork. I am thinking of scrapping of some of the decal, repair the spot with some paint, and put new decals of storks on it. I will try and get some pictures tomorrow.

  14. #64

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    Here are side by side of the Fonck SPAD XIII. Original on left, new on right.

    Are these different planes that he flew? Wing-top camo scheme is the same but different elsewhere. Colors have changed, especially the underside surfaces.
    Wing tips are shaped differently too?

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  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spad VII View Post
    Hello ,

    I too recently started playing Glory's wings, i was offered a small figurine of D.520 in 2010 that I had put on display next to the 1/72 and 1/48 models, it took a friend to convert me at the" play mat" only in 2018 !

    I just hope that my English and the translator will be correct to explain what I see on this subject :

    After a nice discussion on the subject "quality of miniatures in 2020 with " monse " and "ABS" during our last part, (as i was also project manager for a French die-casting company on a new aeronautical range 1/72 , 1/48 ) a study for a year :

    Attachment 289337
    (c)Solido.com

    I was curious to understand how these models Wings of War / Glory were made ?

    On the 1st WOW / WOG models, the fact that some of them were probably painted in the factory with an airbrush by hand, their rarity gives them today a certain value of collection and even if this basic paint is far from the quality of plastic airplane model : http://www.maquetland.com/v2/images_...ncaster-18.jpg


    Perfect "patina" is surely not the 1st goal sought by the brand either. There must be a compromise between a playful and historical aspect for the figurine which moves, sometimes being roughed up on the play mat, I suppose that a design study was carried out on its weight, the various materials for its manufacture, its maneuverability , its resistance, its base then the 3D study for the correct shapes of the device ... etc



    Photo :Wings of Glory Aerodrome


    With this revolutionary, playful conceptual miniature miniature, since its creation, we are far from the classic Wargame metal model : https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2918/...ecc2af19_z.jpg, enough heavy, unwieldy.

    Or that in plastic from various other aeronautical table games: https://twtrb.blogspot.com/2017/09/b...d-mustang.html (sometimes without propeller) ) which often are not realistic and fly away at the slightest gust of wind !



    Photo : Giants of the Sky You tube


    Example of a complete painting on an old Wings of War model the Dewoitine D.520 Thollon * Nexus 2009

    Attachment 289338



    The camouflage spots, the red diamond were most probably made with an airbrush cover:

    Attachment 289340



    On the P.47 D from Mohrle a Wings of Glory * Ares 2016 model

    Attachment 289341



    By enlarging we can clearly see an adhesive film which replaces the paint:

    Attachment 289342


    On the other hand this "macro" adhesive film allows a greater precision of reproduction on the decorations, logos and roundels of the devices which would not be possible in painting with the cache on this scale, it is also less expensive than a new painting on a reissue or a recent edition for the brand and the junction at the end of the wings is surely not "mechanically" allowed by the machine which therefore leaves the edges of a gray "plastic" color.


    So Nexus miniatures, Ares ? , a quality of form and "decoration" that would drop in 2020 ? paints or adhesive films ? :
    These two methods are good for figurines of play, they have their defects and their qualities, to acquire them will then depend on the tastes of each one and the use made of the plane (some undoubtedly expose them also in window) and for me blending them harmoniously by putting beautiful clear canopies and sometimes joints between the wings / airplane fuselage on some models would not be a bad thing in itself, but rather a good idea because in general (with a few exceptions), they are rather aesthetically good successful our little flying wonders on the table !




    Edit:
    Ps : Please note to new players, if you no longer have the packaging and want to know quickly if your model is a Wings of War or a reissued Wings of Glory?
    Look on the base of the arc of circle if it is red it is a Wings of Glory model and if it is black a Wings of War model :

    Excellent report Bruno on the process of miniature production.

  16. #66

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    Peter,

    I have to say, I like the older version better. The new one is a bit too brownish for me.

  17. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I was disappointed for those who had waited so long to get their hands on SE.5's to receive such poorly finished models.
    I have two SE5 and five SE5a (all Ares) and all seven have issues. Two planes are decent with minor problems, the rest are very poor: missing MG, struts not in the same location so the upper wing is badly canted, tails badly agog, etc.

    Some occasional problems with other models also but not near the high percentage of problems as with these. Wonder what went wrong

  18. #68

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    I was picking one SE5a from like 15 boxes in my local shop. I ended up buying none.

  19. #69

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    Could Someone Post some Pics to comprehend what the Problems exactly are?

  20. #70

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    All seven of these were Ares new in shrink. Some are minor problems and easily fixed. Some a bit over my head at the moment.

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  21. #71

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    obviously products of a "mei ban fa" work ethic.

  22. #72

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    I am almost afraid to go and have a 'real look' at the recent planes ....

    Been playing 1916 exclusively for the last year and a half, so have not given much more than a passing glance at the models before packing them away.

    Similar to the Hurricane I opened in January (purchased in 2016) only to find it had no propellor ...
    (Ares tookcare of that)

  23. #73

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    I'd bought long ago, but just opened my Se5a planes up. I bought 6, 4 are Bishops and 2 are Dallas. All the Bishops have glue that is very visible and are over spread. 1 Bishop has the top wing and tail askew. Both Dallas look fine.

    I bought several as I put decals on them to make them different.

  24. #74

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    Wow, not much quality control on those. Were the bent or glued on wrong? Guess it doesn’t matter in the end, just curious.

  25. #75

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    And what is the story with the Brittish roundels being purple instead of blue. That has become an Ares trademark.

  26. #76

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    John, I repainted some of the recent SE5a. I spent more time touching up the splatter and poorly placed decals than anything else. People give me grief when I complain about the SE5a quality. When I look at how great the Baumer and Kempf Fokker triplanes came out, I just can't stand seeing the sloppy SE5a.

  27. #77

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    I'd say the top wing is glued on wrong. Not sure on the tail, it just looks crooked.

    I had not noticed the purple roundels. Now I see it.

  28. #78

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    The glue really stands out as it is shiny. At this time, I'm not repainting them. I'll just live with it.

  29. #79

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    No luck with the SE.5a lottery :
    1) Upperwing askew, so struts are not glued to the wings.
    2) Undercart interfering with peg attachment.
    3) Underwing not fixed to fuselage and strut (on one side).

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    But everything can be improved with glue in a few minutes.
    Removal of the SE.5 (Bishop) upper wing :

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    1) Upper wing glued in a correct position.
    2) Rear part of the undercart is glued to its original position.
    3) Left strut is glued to the lower wing and both wings are hold together with two fingers during 5 minutes to be sure it is properly fixed.

    They look better now :

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  30. #80

  31. #81

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    Yes Sir, you did a great job on the repairs!

  32. #82

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    Good work Monse. Be careful though as everyone will send you their planes to repair. Mine are in the mail to you now!

  33. #83

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    Super Job monse !

  34. #84

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    Great work, Monse!

    I haven't unpacked mine yet, so can't assess for damage, but if there is any you'll be hearing from me!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  35. #85

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    The question is - shall i buy an Ares model and repair it or shall i get a Valom model and build it ...?

  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    The question is - shall i buy an Ares model and repair it or shall i get a Valom model and build it ...?
    Both, of course!

    Get everything you can while you can!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Both, of course!

    Get everything you can while you can!
    Hmmm, well played sir.

  38. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Both, of course!

    Get everything you can while you can!
    Monse invited me to join this thread, and how can I dismiss his invite? :-)

    What I want to emphasize - Our assembled models are pretty unique in the market, because they are hard to produce and almost completely hand-made. Small defects like those shown in the photos are almost impossible to avoid, no matters the level of QC we try to implement. Workers in a factory are not expert modelers, and while most pre-assembled models are much larger, much simpler, or both, our are tiny and made of a much higher part number than the competition.

    I think that if you are NOT a modeler (like me! I have two "left hands" so to say, and my own attempts at building stuff ended with blobs of glue all over the place, including the model, the desk, and me) - I think that what you get out of the box is on the level, or better, than what you could achieve trying to build a model kit, in a fraction of the time, and a cost which is not so different (about half of the product cost and value in our airplanes is the cards, the special base, rules and counters when present - and the packaging itself!).

    If you ARE a modeler, the choice is really there. In our packs, you get a model of a decent quality, playable out of the box, and which it is possible to improve easily if you expect more from the miniatures on your gaming table. I understand it might not be on par with a detailed multi-part kit put together by your expert hands. Of course, strictly speaking, the cards and stuff you get with the airplanes are not public domain ;-) but I know you are all creative people :-)

    So I still think it's fair, if you like our game, to support the game by buying at least one of our packs, before multiplying deck and base "for personal use only" as they wrote in the good old days.

    PS You don't see me much in the threads on the forum because I would have a hard time properly following up what I write. But I have a few friends here, so remember I KNOW (most of the time, at least!) :-)

  39. #89

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    Roberto, thanks for the good insight. For a mass produced product by average people, they are quite nice. By the time you build a model, make cards, and make a base I would rather buy an Ares plane. I can always clean up and repaint the plane if it isn't up to my tough standards. I have been a modeller most of my life and I have very tough standards for my work. Asking a non modeller to live up to that is not realistic. I would rather buy an bunch of Ares Produced planes and customize them then try and build one from scratch. The sculpts are nice and all the cards and bases are ready to go. That is my opinion. I just wish more product was on the way. I would gladly buy two of each one. Maybe more if I wanted to make a squadron of it.

  40. #90

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    Totally agree and sympathize. What you are trying to produce on such a scale is very difficult. As a mass producer from scratch, a production engineer, and rabid modeler I am amazed at your product. Keep up the good work and don't let those who do not understand discourage you. I have seen many a production give in and give up. This is a wonderful game, not necessarily a precision scale provider. Thanks! And know the popularity and calls to reprint the entire line shows how much we really like your product!

  41. #91

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    When i buy a chair and it has scratches and visual defects, but i can sit on it, i will be upset in spite of the fact i am not able to make my own chair.

    That's how it is when you sell things to people.

  42. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdimeglio View Post
    Monse invited me to join this thread, and how can I dismiss his invite? :-)

    What I want to emphasize - Our assembled models are pretty unique in the market, because they are hard to produce and almost completely hand-made. Small defects like those shown in the photos are almost impossible to avoid, no matters the level of QC we try to implement. Workers in a factory are not expert modelers, and while most pre-assembled models are much larger, much simpler, or both, our are tiny and made of a much higher part number than the competition.

    I think that if you are NOT a modeler (like me! I have two "left hands" so to say, and my own attempts at building stuff ended with blobs of glue all over the place, including the model, the desk, and me) - I think that what you get out of the box is on the level, or better, than what you could achieve trying to build a model kit, in a fraction of the time, and a cost which is not so different (about half of the product cost and value in our airplanes is the cards, the special base, rules and counters when present - and the packaging itself!).

    If you ARE a modeler, the choice is really there. In our packs, you get a model of a decent quality, playable out of the box, and which it is possible to improve easily if you expect more from the miniatures on your gaming table. I understand it might not be on par with a detailed multi-part kit put together by your expert hands. Of course, strictly speaking, the cards and stuff you get with the airplanes are not public domain ;-) but I know you are all creative people :-)

    So I still think it's fair, if you like our game, to support the game by buying at least one of our packs, before multiplying deck and base "for personal use only" as they wrote in the good old days.

    PS You don't see me much in the threads on the forum because I would have a hard time properly following up what I write. But I have a few friends here, so remember I KNOW (most of the time, at least!) :-)
    Roberto,

    Thank you for your response and I certainly applaud the general quality of the models and the unique offering in the market. Given a choice I would buy multiple copies of the Ares models every time for repaints, both for the value and simplicity of retaining quality playable models. The games are terrific and I've enjoyed introducing them to extended family and friends and hope to do more once the pandemic permits. It's that love of the games that make your fans want more of the original and new product. I came to this community less than a year ago from board games (miniatures painting, not so much a modeler). In that time, I bought:
    WGF: 204 planes
    WGS: 51 planes
    BSG: one of each produced

    However, obtaining out-of-print or hard to get models leads to the secondary market and a missed opportunity for Ares, so I'd encourage you to keep up the good work and produce more if possible to expand the wonderful games. In my case my purchases were:
    WGF: 35+ shapeways planes and 6 aftermarket balloons
    WGS: Today I am placing an order for 66 planes which unfortunately are completely unavailable from Ares (Pacific theater)
    BSG: 4 aftermarket large ship conversions that are as yet unavailable for the game

    This is just one example, but I believe overall growing the games is hindered by the lack of product. I don't say this as stinging criticism, only to encourage Ares to do more if possible. Obviously there are cash flow considerations for the company, production capacity, development limits, and more. I'm just hoping there will be more readily available products since this community will scoop them up and find a way to augment the games however needed.

    I opened this bomber this morning and it fell 3 inches onto the counter. This is the kind of repair I can handle! It looks like the left wing had no glue applied.

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  43. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdimeglio View Post

    So I still think it's fair, if you like our game, to support the game by buying at least one of our packs, before multiplying deck and base "for personal use only" as they wrote in the good old days.
    That is, in part, why I said "get everything you can, while you can" - buy all the Ares minis you can afford, even if there are assembly issues, because you might not see them for sale 6 months down the line.

    <<cough, cough, 600+ Nexus & Ares planes at last count cough, cough>>
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  44. #94

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    Thank you Roberto for your insights. I possess the same scale modeling abilities as you. None. So, I appreciate the models that Ares has produced because I would not be able to replicate anything remotely close to their quality. I am another one of the Aerodrome members who are passionate about this exceptional game. After acquiring all of the WGS models and most of the WGF models, I too would like to see more reprints and new models produced in a more timely manner. As a non-modeler, I personally consider the manufacturing imperfections annoying, but acceptable. I have recently begun to add pre-painted third party planes including 144 scale WGS, but I will still buy everything that Ares officially produces for this game.

    Bottom line: I would like Ares to place a greater emphasis on producing more product in a timely manner for this wonderful game!

  45. #95

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    Roberto, thanks for your input here. I agree completely. I am a painter/modeler. I love what ARES puts out as playable out of the box. These are wonderful game pieces and exceptional for the price. I have modified and repainted my share of your planes, but that is my choice.

    I agree with Chris that lack of product is hindering the growth of the Wings lines. I do buy at least one of everything to support ARES in Wings.(and now BSG!) I'm sure us grognards buy up more than our share and there is little left for newcomers. Of course we don't know your business model or long term financing plan for Wings but it would be great to keep a starter set (rules+ and 2-4 planes) always available so new players have the ability to get into the game. Having just rules+ without planes and planes without rules+ doesn't make it easy for new players.

    Chris, you B-25 is not alone. I think they all have the same problem with lack of glue. All 7 of mine at some point had at least 1 wing fall off. At least this is a simple fix!

  46. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdimeglio View Post
    .... Small defects like those shown in the photos are almost impossible to avoid, no matters the level of QC we try to implement....
    Though it's strange that there have never been so many manufacturing defects in the lines you have done before... And I'd hardly call them small defects.
    If I were a non modeller I'd be more than a little upset (than I was) at having parts not fitted correctly, missing, or, extraneous glue without an idea how to correct it - other than return it to the vendor.
    As it is I am a modeller & correcting the errors with mine took me some time and effort - the quality of the SE5's in particular was well below that I expect from an Ares product and frankly disappointing.
    To say 'it's as good as you can expect if you did it yourself', or, 'If you ARE a modeler, the choice is really there', are inappropriate, if not disrespectful, responses to the issues raised by a community that cares about your product apparently more than you do.

    "He is wise who watches"

  47. #97

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    My local vendor has about 20 SE5s in on shelf. I didn't buy a single one although i would love to. All defective, visually or mechanically.

  48. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    The question is - shall i buy an Ares model and repair it or shall i get a Valom model and build it ...?
    I'd go with shapeways, myself. Brit colours are a snap compared to German late war.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  49. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honza View Post
    My local vendor has about 20 SE5s in on shelf. I didn't buy a single one although i would love to. All defective, visually or mechanically.
    I wonder what kind of major issues can be seen through the plastic box.
    Could you post a picture of these defective SE.5a at the store ?

    The defects of the SE.5a I have shown on pictures in my message above couldn’t be seen, before getting the planes out of box.
    Improving them require no particular skills, as I am not a modeller. Just some glue, a thin blade and a few minutes.

    On the picture below (taken before an open the box session at home), the only obvious visual defects have concerned the tail of Rumpler C.IV, with decals not wrapping properly the juncture of horizontal and vertical stabilizers.

    Let’s hope anyway that this local vendor can sell his miniatures, in order to continue to propose the Wings of Glory line.
    So few of these stores still exist.

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  50. #100

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    What can be seen - and what i saw on every single of those 20 models:
    1. Glue drops on wings.
    2. Badly laid decals.
    3. Defects on decals.
    4. Wings, tail askew.

    What cannot be seen:
    1. The above metioned defects on the bottom side.
    2. Undercarriage askew.
    3. Other scary stuff that jumps at your face when you open it.

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