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Thread: How to paint the Red Baron's plane

  1. #1

    Default How to paint the Red Baron's plane

    I'm trying to decide a red for a MvR plane to match the all-red one he flew.
    There are surprisingly, no good answers on various modeling sites that my search came up with.
    Here's the best I can find, not surprisingly, the historical Aerodrome site, and from Dan-San Abbot:

    The top and side surface show that there was "NO" Fokker camouflage streaking under the red paint. the red as been identified as:
    Methuen 10F8 DIAMINE BROWN (Dan-San) with carbon black added

    Methuen 4F4/5 olive-brown that Paul Leaman identified in the seventies from the IWM fabric sample.

    Methuen 9/10 C8 and 9/10 E8 CLARET BROWN/MADDER BROWN (Alan D. Toelle)
    Methuen 9 (C-D) 8(Batter, Wally)

    You will see that there are some slight differences in the color from the fabric samples. I think they are All correct. I think as the months go by and with all the cross changes and touch ups the red varied in color, some sections lighter then other sections that had been re-painted (or touched up) over again making it darker. I think this counts for the varying color of the known samples. I don't think it was a pretty one tone color like like you would find on a red Lamborghini but because of the fount line service it most have shown some aging and weathering of the paint.

    The problem we have today is there are two reds of DR.I 425/17, a larger majority of responders, see only one red, the red on the crossfield, it is the red that Alan has coded as Methuen 9 C-D 8. Today the red on the crossfield has bled into the white underneath. The red adjacaent to the crossfiels is dark, and Alan refers to it as probably being the overall color. In studying the photos taken at the time of DR.I 477/17, (to my knowledge there are no photos of DR.I 425/17 before those taken after his crash in DR.I 425/17).
    Dr.I 477/17 we can only assume was painted the same way, this is the machine that there are many photos of, none of the many photos show any difference in the grey shade of the overpainted white crossfields and the adjacent color on the fuselage. I have concluded that the red overpaint on the cross fields has bled in to the white paint and has altered the red color of the fabric samples in the museums. The fabric sample I had when examined under a 100 power microscope, looked like chunks of coal on a vermillion red field. There were carbon black particulate mixed in with the vermillion red paint. The carbon black particulates were not in solution of the vermillion red paint, but were in suspension and could be felt on the painted surface of the fabric. The observed color was dark red, near a deep ruby red, Metheun code 10E-F8. When you observe the adajcent red next to the red cross fields you will see this dark red.
    I think the overall color of Fok.DR.I 425/17 was dark red 10E-F8.
    One big problem is that I can find no readable chart for the Methuen color system. The books are long out of print, and at least 2 persons said that different printing have slightly different colors appearing on the charts.
    Then we have the planes Ares made, both Dr.Is and D.Vas:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Overall, D.III looks the closest, followed by the older Dr.I
    Does any of my comrades here have any thoughts of the proper paint, preferable
    without mixing.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  2. #2

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    What color primer do you use? White, grey, black, big difference in result of 1-2 coats of color.

  3. #3

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    Depends if it's brush or spray, which is usually a seasonal choice.
    Planes I usually do with white, as I find it more convenient to brush on, and I haven't found a grey primer in the pot.
    I can do grey, if it will make the choice easier.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  4. #4

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    The pic of the D.III doesn't match the actual model but the deeper, duller red of that model is very like that used on the Nexus Dr.1 model and maybe more like the colour needed.
    It's difficult as originally it was likely painted over darker colours, later Fokker produced it painted red so the shade may have been different. I also find that smaller models sometimes need to be a shade lighter to look right.
    My original Nexus was near pink in colour so I repainted it with GW Blood Red - it's not right but looks the part; I recently updated it & changed the decals.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pic's not great but you get the idea.
    I'm sure there are paint manufacturers that make a paint they claim authentic for the model.

    "He is wise who watches"

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    I'm sure there are paint manufacturers that make a paint they claim authentic for the model.
    I have a pot of 'Misterkit' paint "Jasta 11 Red", but have yet to open it.

    I didn't give a lot of thought to the shade of red when I painted my two "what if" Fokker D.VIIs for MvR - I just wanted a red which was visually different from the "Vermillion" of my Jasta 18 birds, and yet not a true "Scarlet".
    In the end I used 'Vallejo' "Red", that being a bit darker than a scarlet, but more full-bodied red than vermillion.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6

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    I'd do a test of what reds you already have on the primers you have. Do penny sized spots on a piece of card stock or an index card. It should give you a good idea of what direction you'll have to go, lighter-darker-brighter.... Then off to Michael's or AC Moore paint section!

  7. #7

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    Thanks for the advice, guys.
    i'll do some tests.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  8. #8

    Default

    This thread came up last night at the game we played. Final thought was what ever color red you use is OK if you like it since most of the planes are a different shade of red.

  9. #9

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    I was just at the Aviattic decal company website where I saw that they have decals for 10 different Fokker Dr.Is that the Red Baron flew in 1917 and up until his death. That's a lot of airplanes.
    So how many books are in your personal library?

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RJG173 View Post
    I was just at the Aviattic decal company website where I saw that they have decals for 10 different Fokker Dr.Is that the Red Baron flew in 1917 and up until his death. That's a lot of airplanes.
    Thanks for this link Robert. Maybe others have but I hadn't heard of this decal supplier before.

  11. #11

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    I've been following this site for a while.

    Shame they only do Lozenge and Hex camo sheets in 1/144 scale.

  12. #12

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    I've been checking this website, too, ever since I bookmarked it about a year ago. You are right, Tim - it would be great if they reduced some of their other decal sets to 1/144 scale. The Richthofen tripe decals are 1/32 scale. In looking at that decal set, you can get a good idea of colors and streak patterns - should be easy enough to match on our scale planes, depending on one's skill set...

    It is a great website with lots of cool stuff to enjoy...

    All the best,
    Matt

  13. #13

    Default

    Thanks for that link. I never heard of this company before but like what they are doing.



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