I’m getting started on a batch of P40Bs from the AVG in China. Were the camo patterns all identical on them, or were they random, just using the same colors and general scheme?
Thanks!
A question about US WWII Camo Patterns
I’m getting started on a batch of P40Bs from the AVG in China. Were the camo patterns all identical on them, or were they random, just using the same colors and general scheme?
Thanks!
My information is that the AVG P-40Bs were re-purposed from a batch that had originally been built for the RAF and were painted in a version of RAF day fighter cammo using equivalent color paints that were commercially available in the US. The topsides were earth brown and medium green, which faded in service. The pattern was the RAF pattern for Tomahawks. Undersides were neutral grey.
From my knowledge of RAF painting practices, they would have been random, using the same colors and general scheme.
RAF camo patterns were pretty much that. Very standard patterns, with few variations.
There were specific patterns for each aircraft type, usually an A and B version, with occasional reversals of color (brown and green or green and brown)
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
I have to disagree, schoon. My information is that the RAF during WWII defined a standard two-color camouflage pattern for every aircraft type, and issued official drawings to manufacturers and to maintenance units. The standard pattern of shapes was used with every two-color scheme: green-and-brown, green-and-grey and brown-and-sand. Actually, there were *two* standard patterns for every aircraft type, an 'A scheme' and a 'B scheme'; the B scheme was supposed to be a reverse of the A scheme, but the A scheme was much more used, and I think American manufacturers only used the A scheme. Not surprisingly, patterns for most single-engine, single seat types were similar, as were patterns for twin and four engine planes.
There was some variation in the exact application of these patterns, but they were far from random. Planes painted in a single batch by a manufacturer would look very like one another, and the AVG P-40Bs carried a pattern very similar to most two-color RAF Tomahawks.
My general knowledge of RAF A and B schemes comes from a bound volume of Camouflage and Markings which I no longer own. My specific information on AVG P-40s is from Thomas A. Tullis Tigers Over China, The Aircraft of the AVG.
Spitfire color image:
The brown and green 1940 plane is shown in the B pattern, with a left wing insert showing the A pattern with a pre-Battle-of-Britain upper wing roundel:
Note that the left wing of the A pattern is the mirror of the right wing of the B, and is the same pattern as the grey and green 1942 plane on the bottom.
Very occasionally the colors were reversed on some planes, giving four different patterns on one plane type. The patterns rarely changed, and usually were the result of hasty battle damage repair, not individualism by squadrons or pilots. Planes returned to depots for major repair and overhaul usually came back to service with the pattern re-established to factory condition.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
This is really great information. Is there a document out there with this information for other Common Wealth planes? I’ve got some Hurricanes, Beauforts, Mosquitoes, etc. on deck.
I don't know of any general repository of official RAF camouflage pattern drawings. I'd suggest you do a web search on terms such as 'Bristol Beaufort color plan drawings' or 'desert scheme Spitfire color images'. You will see that camouflage in the photographs and drawings follows a consistent pattern.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...w=1280&bih=557
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...w=1280&bih=557
In the pix OldGuy posted above, the pattern on the Hurricane is very like the pattern on the green-and-grey Spitfire. Not surprising, since the two types are about the same size and shape. The Tomahawk pattern was similar, likewise the Typhoon, Tempest, Buffalo, Mustang etc. The pattern on the Beaufort is similar to what was used on the Beaufighter, Mosquito and other twin-engine planes. Look at some pictures, then paint your models.
Although OldGuy is *very* well informed, I still maintain that small variations in the exact shapes of the patterns as applied were common, as you will see in the linked pictures, so don't worry too much about exactly copying a picture.
My fall-back advice on any particular plane an individual might want to paint, concerning an 'accurate' representation, is that the individual have a picture of that plane on a given day, to use as a guide. Anything else would be guesswork, as all sorts of things happen in war that will cause deviations from the 'official' approved paint scheme that a plane was supposed to have.Originally Posted by zippyfusenet
Battle damage, exigencies of service, lack of supply, and desperation all cause changes to a plane's appearance. Good luck getting it 'right', hope to get it close.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
There is this book available from Amazon but it is expensive. I do not own a copy myself, so I do not know how good it is.
Found this online.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war...from-wwii.html
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