Ares Games
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Doncaster 2019, Saturday WGF Table Game #3 - Flight of the Giants

  1. #1

    Default Doncaster 2019, Saturday WGF Table Game #3 - Flight of the Giants

    This game was designed and run by Chris Lambert (Hedeby), who also participated, flying a DH4


    4 DH4 bombers were tasked with flying the length of the table, bombing a selection of targets for Victory Points, and then returning the way they had come.

    6 German interceptors, 3 Fokker D.VII and 3 Albatros DVa, were arranged on start points along both long table edges.
    They would gain 2 Victory Points for shooting down a DH4 on its way to the targets, but only 1 VP on the way home.


    These DH4s were just as fast as the German scouts, and their wider (and probably interlocking) rear fire arcs were augmented by all rear guns being doubled up to 'A' firing!
    The extra weight of double guns plus bombs had no effect at all on their speed or manouevrability.
    If the German players failed to perfectly co-ordinate their superior numbers, it would be a long hard struggle for them to be competitive.



    I had played several "same speed" intercept games before, and all had followed the same pattern - the interceptors got one shot as the two sides met, then they were subsequently unable to catch the bombers until after the mission had been completed.
    To avoid this, they had to time their turn in /Immelmann PERFECTLY, and in unison to combat all those rear guns, or lose.

    My fears were, unfortunately, bourne out once again......................




    The four bombers set up in a diamond formation.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (2).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	145.0 KB 
ID:	276819
    The Germans quickly decided that necessity demanded that they pair up on early intercept start points, in a effort to combine against the massed firepower of the DH4s and attempt a long chase, firing all the time.
    Paul and I combined our DVas on one start point, and our 2 D.VIIs on the next - Doug combined his two plane opposite our D.VIIs.

    Hedeby unexpectedly broke formation, turning away from the other bombers, and wrong-footing our two DVas!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (3).jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	228.8 KB 
ID:	276820

    Paul's 'Saschenberg' turned toward the main group......
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (4).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	154.5 KB 
ID:	276821

    .....while my 'Goering' headed up the table edge, to prevent Hedeby bypassing us all.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (5).jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	167.9 KB 
ID:	276822

    Paul's DVa arrowed in toward the hindmost DH4, while my 'Jacobs' DVa curved in behind David's DH4 - one peg lower than him, his rear guns couldn't hit me, but I could, and did, hit him! So far so good.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (6).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	134.3 KB 
ID:	276823

    Now it started to unravel - my 'Goering' had climbed too high, so couldn't get a shot. Paul's 'Saschenberg' had turned back toward Chris Hedeby (2:1 odds for the Germans) leaving the others at 4:3. Of those, Paul's DVa overshot the hindmost DH4, Doug's D.VII attacked head-on, but his DVa had failed to keep up and was too far away to help. On the up side, my 'Jacobs' was now firing into David @+1, and he still could not shoot back!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (10).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	130.6 KB 
ID:	276824

    Stung by his one-way-damage predicament, David dived, in front of my Left sideslip - his "remedy" had backfired! He was now taking 2 'A' cards @ +1, and I was perfectly safe in his blind spot!
    Doug's D.VII whizzed through, but his DVa was too high, so my one shot was the only shot against the two leading DH4s.......
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (11).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	145.3 KB 
ID:	276825

    David's turn to port was meant to open his rear arc, but my stall left me still in his blind spot, delivering another 2 'A' cards @ +1 without reply.
    Doug's too planes began right turns, but they were both past the critical turn point, and could never now catch the two leading bombers.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (13).jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	214.6 KB 
ID:	276826

    My Split-s dropped my 'Goering' down a peg, and onto Hedeby's tail! Paul zoomed past, having damaged the lone bomber on the previous card.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (14).jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	247.5 KB 
ID:	276827

    Hedeby turned back toward his comrades, but was concerned by my pursuit - "I'm not going to get rid of that D.VII!"
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (18).jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	201.1 KB 
ID:	276829

    David's frantic weaving bore fruit, as he finally got a shot in at my 'Jacobs', but he got blasted again in return; but MY GUNS JAMMED!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (19).jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	220.0 KB 
ID:	276830

    The hind-most DH4 now drew the attentions of 3 German scouts - but that meant that the other 2 bombers could no longer be stopped, unless my jammed 'Jacobs' could somehow get them BOTH!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (20).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	152.3 KB 
ID:	276831

    Success! No, you're NOT going to get rid of that D.VII!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (22).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	128.1 KB 
ID:	276832

    Disaster! Jammed 'Jacobs's practically unmarked plane is "BOOM"ed out of the sky - and with that shot, the Germans lost the game.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (23).jpg 
Views:	42 
Size:	180.8 KB 
ID:	276833

    It's impossible to catch the two leading bombers now - and intercepting the third one is not a certainty......
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (24).jpg 
Views:	42 
Size:	182.4 KB 
ID:	276834

    The chase is on, but it's futile.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (26).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	168.7 KB 
ID:	276835


    Playing sideslips along the hypotenuse of a right-angled triangle allows a small amount of ground to be made up, but it's nowhere near enough.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (27).jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	202.1 KB 
ID:	276836

    The Germans are still a long way back as the bombers approach the first target.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (29).jpg 
Views:	42 
Size:	107.9 KB 
ID:	276837

    Devoid of opposition, it's a doddle to line up, overfly and stall........TARGET DESTROYED!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (30).jpg 
Views:	44 
Size:	227.1 KB 
ID:	276838


    The bombing "success" method was a lot of fun - the bombing player was given magnetic darts to throw at a dartboard! The lower your altitude, the closer you could stand, and if you bombed on a stall card you got extra darts!

    With no German fighter opposition anywhere near, both bombing players optimised their altitude and speed without interference, and maximised their damage.

    My 'Goering' isn't anywhere close to getting a shot.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (31).jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	97.8 KB 
ID:	276839


    Mike turns for home, as David's bullet-riddled machine selects the next target.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (32).jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	185.7 KB 
ID:	276840

    It's not that far away.......
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (33).jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	181.9 KB 
ID:	276841

    At least Paul catches up with Steve's trailing DH4...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (34).jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	224.3 KB 
ID:	276842

    ...and drops him!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (35).jpg 
Views:	40 
Size:	224.3 KB 
ID:	276843

    David overflies and destroys the second target...
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (36).jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	133.0 KB 
ID:	276844

    ...and my 'Goering' reaps the reward of all of 'Jacobs's hard work, and destroys David, but it's too little, too late.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bombers (37).jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	141.3 KB 
ID:	276845



    I stopped taking photos at that point, as the all-but-inevitable RAF victory came to pass.

    It was determined that Mike would get home without being intercepted - the remaining Germans were out of position, and one had an engine damage card, so he could not be caught.



    Bomber intercepts can be a lot of fun, but are difficult games to balance.
    Generally, the fighters need to be faster than the bombers, in order to get more than just one single firing pass, and the bombers must not be overgunned. Splitting the fighters up makes it impossible for them to coordinate their attacks, and if the bombers stick together, with overlapping wide rear fire arcs, they will win a battle of attrition unless they receive a "BOOM" or two.

    This run was a challenge, and we Germans got a lot of things right, but in my opinion the odds were just too heavily stacked in the favour of the British.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  2. #2

    Default

    Nice Game!

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Pilot View Post
    Nice Game!
    Major Hedeby will be glad to hear you enjoyed his mission!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  4. #4

    Default

    awesome AAR love major Hedeby's scenario and the commentary from squadron leader Helmut (is squadron leader Helmut ok with you, if not I will edit this post)

  5. #5

    Default

    Excellent telling of the 'tail' and photos, Tim.
    Rep inbound.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the black devil View Post
    awesome AAR love major Hedeby's scenario and the commentary from squadron leader Helmut (is squadron leader Helmut ok with you, if not I will edit this post)
    Sure, Squadron Leader Helmut is fine by me!

    Thanks for the Rep!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Excellent telling of the 'tail' and photos, Tim.
    Rep inbound.
    Thanks Pete!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  8. #8

    Default

    Tim great report, I really enjoyed it, especially the snippets on tactics. If I understand it correctly you shot down 3 bombers without a German loss, unless I missed one in the carnage. The German planes appeared to get repeated shots at the bombers so I'm not sure about your conclusions.

    In the real thing if the British had been losing 3 out of every 4 planes on a mission they would have stopped flying within a very short time. This is a game I've thought about flying for a while now, which is why I found it so facinating.
    Could 2 seat bombers flying in formation with interlocking fields of fire beat off a strong scout attack, and your result would appear to be no. Maybe it wasn't apparent in your report but I didn't get the impression that the British planes supported each other. Chris breaking off from the foremation and your chase after David, when no one else appeared to shoot at your attacking plane are the two obvious examples.

    The other interesting thing would be the best formation for the bombers to adopt, I wondered about using a diamond shape stepped down, with the last plane higher than the 2 outer ones and the lead plane lowest, to avoid you picking off the last plane from below as you were able to do.
    I guess that in real life the pilots would have been able to maintain formation more easily than in WoW but formation would be key to success I think.

    I'm only coming to this recently so I might be way off beam here, especially as most of mt research has been re-reading Biggles but of the 3 games youve posted from Doncaster, this is the most tactically complex one and I would loved to have seen it unfold. Having said that the air race looks the most fun.

    I realize that you might have lost the game because of the victory conditions but in reality it was a massacre.

    Thanks for this post.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Sure, Squadron Leader Helmut is fine by me!

    Thanks for the Rep!
    your welcome

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Tim great report, I really enjoyed it, especially the snippets on tactics. If I understand it correctly you shot down 3 bombers without a German loss, unless I missed one in the carnage. The German planes appeared to get repeated shots at the bombers so I'm not sure about your conclusions.

    In the real thing if the British had been losing 3 out of every 4 planes on a mission they would have stopped flying within a very short time. This is a game I've thought about flying for a while now, which is why I found it so facinating.
    Could 2 seat bombers flying in formation with interlocking fields of fire beat off a strong scout attack, and your result would appear to be no. Maybe it wasn't apparent in your report but I didn't get the impression that the British planes supported each other. Chris breaking off from the foremation and your chase after David, when no one else appeared to shoot at your attacking plane are the two obvious examples.

    The other interesting thing would be the best formation for the bombers to adopt, I wondered about using a diamond shape stepped down, with the last plane higher than the 2 outer ones and the lead plane lowest, to avoid you picking off the last plane from below as you were able to do.
    I guess that in real life the pilots would have been able to maintain formation more easily than in WoW but formation would be key to success I think.

    I'm only coming to this recently so I might be way off beam here, especially as most of mt research has been re-reading Biggles but of the 3 games youve posted from Doncaster, this is the most tactically complex one and I would loved to have seen it unfold. Having said that the air race looks the most fun.

    I realize that you might have lost the game because of the victory conditions but in reality it was a massacre.

    Thanks for this post.
    Hi John, thanks for your interesting comments!

    Yes, we Germans shot down 3 bombers, but two were AFTER they had flattened their targets, and we DID lose a German - my poor 'Jacobs'! Steve's plane was alone when shot down, and was mugged by three attackers, and Hedeby fell to a 2:1 German advantage.

    No German plane achieved "repeated shots" except for my 'Jacobs' hammering of David's DH4, and also the second shot of my 'Goering' finishing off Hedeby.
    All other shots were single, isolated efforts.

    The Entente did historically continue flying in the face of horrific losses - "Bloody April" in 1917 against the British (and "Black September" in 1918 against the, primarily, Americans) proved that. One British RE8 squadron in 1917 sent a flight of 6 planes on a mission, and lost them all! They sent another flight the next day...…………..

    Crucially, in this game the bombers failed to support each other- they were just too far apart to provide support fire, so my 'Jacobs' was able to target one DH4, without his colleagues alongside, and also behind, being able to add their gunfire.
    Had they been maybe half a ruler closer, then I would have taken fire from the side AND behind while trying to tackle the leader. Flexibility is the key, particularly with regard to altitude. The bombers needed to dive, to bring their rear guns into play. In such a case, the plane alongside David's would have got a shot, or several, and the dive card being "long" would have kept me in range of the bomber behind me (who would also get a +1 for "firing from above"). If David had dived rapidly, putting me above and behind him, then his blind spot would have 'disappeared'(!) and I would have been toast!

    As a bomber you simply cannot allow a fighter to trail you from below, where you can't hit him (as I did to David).

    As the fighters, you can't go in singly (unless you're below and behind) and you MUST turn/Immelmann IMMEDIATELY or the target will be out of range in the next 3 cards. Timing this is really difficult - I still get it wrong half or more of the time. Here, I was lucky - both of my planes caught and held onto their targets.

    I think the Diamond is the best formation, staggered as you say with the lead plane lowest and the tail-end-Charlie highest.
    The fighters will still be able to "pick off the last plane from below", but then will be unable to catch up to all the other bombers ahead of them.
    Tackling any other bomber will draw defensive fire from behind, and probably also the bomber(s) alongside the target plane.

    As you rightly said, formation IS the key to success; if a fighter picks on a bomber, turning the adjacent bombers toward the fighter will result in it taking fire from all around, and it won't last long!
    The attacking fighters need to mug one target, hitting him with several shots while he can only return one.

    Campaign-wise, inflicting high attritional losses could be a route to victory, but in a one-off like this game the Victory Conditions made it absolutely clear that the bombers had to be stopped BEFORE reaching their targets - in this we Germans clearly failed.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  11. #11

    Default

    Personally I thought our cunning plan worked admirably, with me running interference from behind and drawing off the nasty hun, while my gallant compatriots bombed the crap out of the targets. In war there must be sacrifices - unfortunately that turned out to be me!
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Personally I thought our cunning plan worked admirably, with me running interference from behind and drawing off the nasty hun, while my gallant compatriots bombed the crap out of the targets. In war there must be sacrifices - unfortunately that turned out to be me!
    They didn't even give you a big rock to hide behind (or on top of!)
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  13. #13

    Default

    Great AAR Tim. Looks like a fun mission - might be another candidate for Flight club.
    John We ran a similar game at Wings Over The South East a few years back - the difference being that the Bombers had to use a K deck (if I recall correctly) whilst they were bombed up, which allowed the defenders to catch up to them, the players controlled a fighter each (including escorts)and I controlled the vic formations of DH.4's using a ruler as a template (the lead machine in front & centre, the out-riggers behind at the ends using individual control to slide in behind the lead for the bomb run). No altitude used that time.
    Here are pics in my Album https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/al...p?albumid=3109, they start at pic 18.

    Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"

  14. #14

    Default

    Tim thanks for your comprehensive reply, lots of food for thought there. Sorry I missed Your Jacobs going down and I guess it was following his/your attack on David that I got the impression of repeated shots.

    It does sound as if the game ie WoW does reflect reality in these sorts of combat situations, I mean the tactics that worked in reality also work in the game.

    Victory conditions are difficult to establish, what are 4 planes and 8 men worth against the loss of whatever they are trying to destroy.

    Anyhow I really enjoyed your write up and am keener than ever to try and re-run a similar scenario.
    Cheers

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Great AAR Tim. Looks like a fun mission - might be another candidate for Flight club.
    John We ran a similar game at Wings Over The South East a few years back - the difference being that the Bombers had to use a K deck (if I recall correctly) whilst they were bombed up, which allowed the defenders to catch up to them, the players controlled a fighter each (including escorts)and I controlled the vic formations of DH.4's using a ruler as a template (the lead machine in front & centre, the out-riggers behind at the ends using individual control to slide in behind the lead for the bomb run). No altitude used that time.
    Here are pics in my Album https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/al...p?albumid=3109, they start at pic 18.
    Ha looks like a similar game of attrition, I couldn't work out how it went apart from the target got destroyed, planes were falling left right and centre. Lots of big planes and a very long table.

    I did contemplate putting this sort of game forward for my offering into the Daring Young Men campaign. Almost an exact replica of the one Chris did - 4 two seat bombers in diamond formation, the lead plane flown by the solo player, the other 3 planes keeping formation and 4 to 6 scouts attacking from one or the other flank flown by the AI.
    I just never had the time to trial it and also didnt think the soloists would want to fly a sedate line, they seem to much prefer to be scout pilots.
    Cheers

  16. #16



Similar Missions

  1. Doncaster 2019, Saturday WGF Table Game #2 - Todesrennen im Himmel
    By Flying Helmut in forum WGF: After Action Reports
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 11-08-2019, 05:53
  2. Doncaster 2019, Saturday WGF Table Game #1 - Protect the Balloon
    By Flying Helmut in forum WGF: After Action Reports
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-18-2019, 21:58
  3. Doncaster 2019, Friday Game #1 - Listening Post
    By Flying Helmut in forum BSG: After Action Reports
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-15-2019, 05:34
  4. Ohio: Wright Flight meets for a game this Saturday.
    By rhodie80 in forum US Wing
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-11-2018, 11:46
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-02-2017, 04:46

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •