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Thread: OTT DYM Mission 10-- March 12 1916---Double Jeopardy--gully_raker

  1. #1

    Default OTT DYM Mission 10-- March 12 1916---Double Jeopardy--gully_raker

    March 1916 saw the formation of KEK's & Fokkerstaffels which the Germans hoped would lead to aerial superiority by concentrating Fighting Scouts in groups.
    At this stage in the War both combatants relied heavily on tethered Observation Balloons for information particularly for short range Artillery Bombardments on the opposing trenches
    & movement of troops in the Front Lines.

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    THE MISSION
    Both British & German HQ's had initiated a mission to destroy a troublesome Balloon which had been causing heavy casualties in the Front Line Trenches.
    Your Scouts have been charged to destroy these Balloons.

    THE SET UP

    Using two WOG/WOW mats joined on the long side set up a British & German Balloon as shown in the example.

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    Set up the Balloons in the centre of you sides mat 1&1/2 rulers in from your rear edge.

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    Each side will have 2 scouts to attack the enemy Balloon. One armed with incendiary ammunition & one to act as escort.
    Your Scouts will start 1/2 ruler length in from the mat join on your side & 1/2 length from the RHS of your mat.
    See Examples below.

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    Each side will have one defending scout located in one rear corner of your mat facing 45 degrees towards the balloon as per the examples.

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    Also each Balloon will have ONE "B" firing AA Machine gun as additional defence. These AAMG's can only fire at Aircraft a Level 2 or below & can be set up touching one face of the Balloon base (Your choice!) See first photo showing the overall set up.
    AAMG will have a 360 arc of fire without ground fire and an adjusted MG fire - ie pull an extra card to what is required for range/height & give the lowest selected to the aircraft - any special damage takes precedence.
    Where there's multiple Special Damage:
    Boom card trumps all -
    Then go with the highest damage number on the special damage.
    Where the damage number is the same, then precedence is Fire, Wound, Engine, Smoke, Rudder,

    All Aircraft & Balloons will commence at LEVEL SIX (i.e. 6 pegs)

    Your Balloon can commence decent after the first shots are fired at it by the attackers & will reduce height by ONE LEVEL every TWO TURNS due to using B damage deck Aircraft & there will be ONLY ONE CARD required to reload the Lewis Guns to make the Scenario fair.

    The attacking Aircraft will naturally dive to follow the Balloon down & there will be no +1 advantage of height against the BALLOON.
    Normal + 1 will apply to Scout Vs Scout.
    As you dive to follow the Balloon you will only reduce your height by ONE PEG.

    Any Scout aircraft available at this date may be used & the FE 2b is considered a fighter as its designation suggests.
    No 2 seaters with Front & Rear guns can be used!
    Attached are Balloon images for anyone who does not have actual Balloons!

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    VICTORY POINTS:

    10 points for Destroying Balloon
    5 points if Balloon on Fire when it reaches the Ground
    2 points for any enemy Fighter Shot Down
    1 point for any enemy Fighter forced to return to base

    Happy Dogfighting All.
    If you have any queries please post below & PM me for a direct reply.

    Added

    For a bit more spice you can choose to fly any of your 3 Aircraft. ALL others are AI.
    Last edited by flash; 10-05-2019 at 04:42.

  2. #2

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    Now this looks fun! Our whole gaming group is away on holidays and I have the honour of hosting our first game night when everyone is back. I reckon this might do the trick!
    Last edited by Biggles downunder; 09-29-2019 at 22:07.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for this Baz - I will get that into the compilation sticky as soon as.
    Not sure they all had incendiaries this early on in the war, so maybe some leeway for story telling there. I can see my RFC chaps 'borrowing' some from the RNAS for the mission.
    The FE2 was used as a fighter but the F in it's designation stands for Farman not fighter or fighting as it is with your favourite the FB.5.

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Thanks for this Baz - I will get that into the compilation sticky as soon as.
    Not sure they all had incendiaries this early on in the war, so maybe some leeway for story telling there. I can see my RFC chaps 'borrowing' some from the RNAS for the mission.
    The FE2 was used as a fighter but the F in it's designation stands for Farman not fighter or fighting as it is with your favourite the FB.5.
    Thanks Dave. I did not know that about the "F" in the FE 2b. One continues to learn.
    Would they have had "Buckingham's" at this date? Maybe we could use those to keep it Historical?
    Last edited by gully_raker; 09-30-2019 at 03:53.

  5. #5

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    I saw on the Aerodrome forum (if correct) that the RNAS Buckingham might have been issued in December '15, the RFC got them in April '16 but found the round nosed bullet didn't feed well with the Lewis so they then got them made into the .303 MkVII ball ammo variant July '16, which is the date I've used up to now. Brock & Pomeroy rounds, the explosive types also known as incendiaries came later in 1916. Finding exact dates, as usual, are not easy to come by.
    http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=49899
    https://sites.google.com/site/britmi...nch-incendiary
    https://sites.google.com/site/britmi...inch-explosive

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #6

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    Looks to be a straightforward simultaneous balloon strafe-may the best guns win!

    We can assume the Bulldogs/Les Bouledogues/Die Adler would be on the cutting edge of innovation by now-let's justify the use of incendiary ammunition as a combat trial with a high-performing squadron.

  7. #7

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    We can assume the Bulldogs/Les Bouledogues/Die Adler would be on the cutting edge of innovation by now-let's justify the use of incendiary ammunition as a combat trial with a high-performing squadron.
    Like that idea Sam.
    As Dave suggests,
    some leeway for story telling there
    It will be fun to conjure up a reason, like Sam's, to fit the story line. Nice one Baz - looking forward to setting this one up in a couple of days

  8. #8

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    Looks to be a straightforward simultaneous balloon strafe-may the best guns win!

    We can assume the Bulldogs/Les Bouledogues/Die Adler would be on the cutting edge of innovation by now-let's justify the use of incendiary ammunition as a combat trial with a high-performing squadron.
    With a "Side dish" of Dogfights between the attackers Escort & the defending Scout.

  9. #9

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    Looking forward to playing this one mid-month when SWMBO is away for the weekend.

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    Are we playing the AAMG's using it's arc of fire on the card, or, as a 360 arc, and are we using troop ground fire from the same ?
    I'm inclined to go 360 without ground fire myself & want to try out an adjusted MG fire - ie pull a couple of cards & give the lowest to the aircraft.

    "He is wise who watches"

  11. #11

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    Balloons

    Looking forward to this when I get back from R& R.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  12. #12

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    That looks like a very fun mission to fly!

  13. #13

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Are we playing the AAMG's using it's arc of fire on the card, or, as a 360 arc, and are we using troop ground fire from the same ?
    I'm inclined to go 360 without ground fire myself & want to try out an adjusted MG fire - ie pull a couple of cards & give the lowest to the aircraft.
    Hi Dave!
    Yes I agree with your idea.
    Would you like to add that to the BRF for me?
    Many Thanks.

  14. #14

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    Can do Baz.
    You have AAMG firing to level 3 whereas they normally fire to level 2 - was that intentional - if so is there any range adjustment eg is it at short range only ?
    Last edited by flash; 10-02-2019 at 03:13.

    "He is wise who watches"

  15. #15

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    adjusted MG fire - ie pull a couple of cards & give the lowest to the aircraft.
    Just so I get the interpretation of this correctly into my head - does this mean that when an AAMG fires (from its 360 degree arc) at an aircraft at or below 3 (or is it 2?) pegs of altitude, it draws two damage cards from the B deck (assuming the shot is at long range) and only counts the lowest valued card?

    And what if the aircraft flies lower into short range (ok it isn't likely to happen, but it just might). Does the target then draw four cards and count only the two lowest value cards?
    Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else

    Cheers
    Mike

  16. #16

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Can do Baz.
    You have AAMG firing to level 3 whereas they normally fire to level 2 - was that intentional - if so is there any range adjustment eg is it at short range only ?
    My original thought was for it to take effect when the Balloon reached the halfway point however better to keep it to what is normal Dave!
    So Make it Level 2.

    Thanks Mate.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Just so I get the interpretation of this correctly into my head - does this mean that when an AAMG fires (from its 360 degree arc) at an aircraft at or below 3 (or is it 2?) pegs of altitude, it draws two damage cards from the B deck (assuming the shot is at long range) and only counts the lowest valued card?

    And what if the aircraft flies lower into short range (ok it isn't likely to happen, but it just might). Does the target then draw four cards and count only the two lowest value cards? Sorry if this is obvious to everyone else
    Only obvious to those that re-read the BRF Mike !
    AAMG will have a 360 arc of fire without ground fire and an adjusted MG fire - ie pull an extra card to what is required for range/height & give the lowest selected to the aircraft.
    So pull two at long range & give the lowest, pull three at short range & give the lowest two.
    There is a damage value chart or list somewhere I will look it out & post it if I can find it.

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #18

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    OK, so I have to re learn the art of reading properly
    Thanks Dave . All clear now - the prologue is written, the game about to be set up. Let the conflict commence

  19. #19

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    Can't wait to see the outcome

    "He is wise who watches"

  20. #20

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    So, basically, the AAMG are “Reverse Snipers” ?


    I do think the BOOM should be ‘non-returnable’.

  21. #21

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    Maybe any special damage should be non-returnable Pete and take precedence - guns will jam, pilots will be wounded etc etc.

    "He is wise who watches"

  22. #22

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    I think there was something in the files somewhere that specifies the order for AI drawing damage for Aces.
    I will try to find it.

    ——————————-
    Actually, I just had a thought.
    The damage cards are numbered.
    I think the lower the number the less damaging the card is.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Back again trying to think this through ....

    Hmmm
    I originally said give the player the lowest numbered cards, but that would leave out special damage most of the time.
    Giving the AAMG the highest of the cards would make them Super Deadly and go against the original thought.




    Maybe just say that Pilot Wound, Fire and Boom cannot be passed over, and if there are several cards with any of those 3 types the highest must not be ignored


    And maybe take out all the Jammed Gun cards for the AAMG (or just ignore the jam)
    I think ground MGs would be more reliable than those mounted on the aircraft.
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 10-03-2019 at 21:57.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    ...And maybe take out all the Jammed Gun cards for the AAMG (or just ignore the jam)
    I think ground MGs would be more reliable than those mounted on the aircraft.
    Leave the jams in - they'll likely be firing faster & run out of ammo quicker than an aircraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I think there was something in the files somewhere that specifies the order for AI drawing damage for Aces.I will try to find it.
    Think that was the one I was thinking of but can't find the blessed thing - give us a link if you find it Pete.

    "He is wise who watches"

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post


    Think that was the one I was thinking of but can't find the blessed thing - give us a link if you find it Pete.
    Well I have just spent the last couple of hours searching the Files, as well as my downloaded ones and the ones I have printed for my binder.
    I even skimmed through several Campaigns thinking it might have been in one of those.

    No luck.


    So how do you want to determine which card(s) to give to the aircraft when there are multiple Special Damage ones to choose from?
    I still think BOOM, Fire, Wound (and Engine Damage) should trump any others.

    Maybe put those aside, shuffle and draw one?

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    ...So how do you want to determine which card(s) to give to the aircraft when there are multiple Special Damage ones to choose from? I still think BOOM, Fire, Wound (and Engine Damage) should trump any others...
    Where there's multiple Special Damage:
    Boom card trumps all -
    Then go with the highest damage number on the special damage.
    Where the damage number is the same, then precedence is Fire, Wound, Engine, Smoke, Rudder.

    Think that'll do it.

    "He is wise who watches"

  26. #26

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    Played the scenario and it came out a squeaker - a victory for the Flik at 14 to 12 points. Not a good day to be a balloon. It started the balloons at altitude 6 which was maybe too high for A gun scouts. If I had started the balloons at altitude 4 then one of the balloons would have made to the ground but on fire which would have meant a point spread of 14 to 7 points (or likely 12 to 7 as there's a chance one of Entente scouts wouldn't have been shot down). That's hard to say as the AAMG never got into play which it would have if I had started the balloons at altitude 4.

    As I mentioned the AAMG didn't come into play but I would not have played it the recommended way as that means a 50% increased chance at close range and 100% increased chance of drawing a boom or other serious card. It's supposed to be that you draw and extra card and take the lowest except for the special damage cards. So you draw two cards and if one's boom or other special damage card you keep it. That's double chance of a serious card. The only penalty is that if there's no special damage card drawn then you discard the highest damage. I'd take this variant over the normal draw of 1 card at long range and 2 at short every time as it gives a much greater chance of a special damage card.

    Here are the odds of drawing at least one (non-jam) special damage card for the A deck:

    Long range - card = 29%
    Long range - draw 2 cards discard highest damage but keep any special damage = 50%

    Short range - draw 2 cards = 50% (same as above)
    Short range - draw 2 cards discard highest damage but keep any special damage = 65%

    The way to fix this is to draw the normal amount of cards and then draw one extra card which may replace (i.e., player is not required to do so) any higher damage card without special damage (not counting jams) from the initial draw.

    That's just my idea if the intention was to reduce the effectiveness of ground AAMG. I wasn't clear about what was the intention of the variant.

    As I mentioned I intended to play the rules as written but the AAMG never got to play.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 10-08-2019 at 12:07.

  27. #27

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    18/44 B deck are special damage - a third of those special damages are gun jams (hardly call them serious, a bonus maybe !), half the remainder are rudder damage or smoke (also not too serious), of the other remaining half 1 will knock you down, 2 will send you home & three might kill you depending on other cards drawn.
    Proof is in the pudding I guess but then you have to eat it to find out.
    The intention was to lessen the impact of AAMG - Maybe I should have suggested the same as solo AAA. Draw an A deck special damage to see if you're on - then draw for damage from the B deck.
    Peeps can do what they prefer to achieve the aim, I will try the pudding if the guns come into play.

    "He is wise who watches"

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    18/44 B deck are special damage - a third of those special damages are gun jams (hardly call them serious, a bonus maybe !), half the remainder are rudder damage or smoke (also not too serious), of the other remaining half 1 will knock you down, 2 will send you home & three might kill you depending on other cards drawn.
    Proof is in the pudding I guess but then you have to eat it to find out.
    The intention was to lessen the impact of AAMG - Maybe I should have suggested the same as solo AAA. Draw an A deck special damage to see if you're on - then draw for damage from the B deck.
    Peeps can do what they prefer to achieve the aim, I will try the pudding if the guns come into play.
    You're right, peeps can do as they prefer. I should have made clear that the probabilities I posted above are for the A Deck and count only non-jam special cards but do include rudder damage and smoke. If I consider the B deck and only serious special damage cards of injuries, engine damage, fire and boom cards, then this is what the proposal means for the probability of drawing at least one of those cards using the B deck:

    Long range: 14% with the normal one card draw and 27% with the proposal
    Short range: 27% with the normal one card draw and 41% with the proposal

    I will leave it to the reader to decide if those increases are significant or not - as you wrote, peeps can play as they wish.

    If the intention is to lessen the impact of the AAMG I would still suggest draw the normal cards, keep any special damage cards, draw one more card which can be used to replace a non-special damage card - but if the extra card is used to replace a card and it has special damage then that special damage must be applied. This has the effect of not increasing or decreasing the probability of special damage but lessens the damage effect of AAMG.

    Nothing more to say about it. Just offering my perspective on the proposal after having considered it for my game but, as it turned out, it didn't matter one way or another.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 10-09-2019 at 04:20.

  29. #29

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    I think I might make special AAMG deck using two of my Nexus "B" decks, 1 complete and 1 with no special damage, mixed together and just draw normally.

    I think that will come closer to Dave's original intent.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    ... I should have made clear that the probabilities I posted above are for the A Deck and count only non-jam special cards but do include rudder damage and smoke. ...
    So stats are not the same deck, or, include the same damage as the proposal....

    "He is wise who watches"

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    So stats are not the same deck, or, include the same damage as the proposal....
    The stats in the second post are for the B deck. Will edit post to clarify.

  32. #32

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Played the scenario and it came out a squeaker - a victory for the Flik at 14 to 12 points.
    Played mine today.
    A similar result: 15 to 12

    The AAMG also did not come into play.
    I think maybe there should have been AA in addition to/instead of the AAMG.

    Haven't rolled for C&W yet - wish me luck!

  34. #34

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    Finished this last night, just got to find the time to write it up.
    Those balloons burn easily don't they !

    "He is wise who watches"

  35. #35

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    I'm hoping to build a 3rd E111 for this game before I play but I just wanted to check with you all for your thoughts.

    I know this is a solo campaign but I have a friend coming to stay for a few days and I wondered about us playing this scenario with it being perfectly symmetrical, If we each ran one plane per side and used the AI for the others would that be acceptable? No worries if not.
    Cheers

  36. #36

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    Go for it John, it's the type of mission that would lend itself to a two hander - he'll have to fly the Eagles though !

    "He is wise who watches"

  37. #37

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    Agreed John. Go for it. Its a good idea. I thought of doing the same with number 11 but there is nobody around at present to share it with

  38. #38

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I'm hoping to build a 3rd E111 for this game before I play but I just wanted to check with you all for your thoughts.

    I know this is a solo campaign but I have a friend coming to stay for a few days and I wondered about us playing this scenario with it being perfectly symmetrical, If we each ran one plane per side and used the AI for the others would that be acceptable? No worries if not.
    Cheers
    No problem from me John.

  39. #39

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    Thanks guys, I still feel like a newcomer so wanted to check that I wasn't going to upset things I may also change the AAMG to an AACannon, the MG doesn't seem to have had any effect in the games so far and I like the idea of using the official rules for AA fire which I can do if the two of us use one, mind you with my sense of time and space I don't expect to hit anything.

    Cheers

  40. #40

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    Final question can anyone tell me the balloon card size so I can print it out correctly.
    Cheers

  41. #41

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    9.2cm wide by 19.5cm long John...arrr
    And still use the solo rules for AA guns - it's easier than placing tokens & taken less personally by the recipient !

    "He is wise who watches"

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    9.2cm wide by 19.5cm long John...arrr
    And still use the solo rules for AA guns - it's easier than placing tokens & taken less personally by the recipient !
    Thanks Dave arrrr was that your pilot or pirate impersonation. I'm really looking forward to placing the counters and blowing him out of the sky.
    Cheers

  43. #43

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    ... Long John (as in Silver) methinks.



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