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Thread: OTTDYM Mission 8 - Flashes Operation Judgement - 27th February 1916

  1. #1

    Default OTTDYM Mission 8 - Flashes Operation Judgement - 27th February 1916

    It was a suicide mission, plain and simple but they knew their duty and someone had to do it.
    The it being to bomb the Eastern end of the Tavannes Tunnel that had recently fallen into enemy hands during the latest attack. They had not been able to push their advantage into the tunnel but it was only a matter of time before they forced their way in so it fell to the Bulldogs to close the tunnel and prevent that access.
    The French had prepped the entrance for demolition but the attack had surprised them and they were not able to initiate the charge. Intel had it that the means of detonation had been removed by the Germans but that the charge had yet to be removed . It was decided by the powers that be that a single large bomb from an aircraft may be enough to detonate the main charge and drop the tunnel roof but it had to be precisely placed in the tunnel entrance to stand any chance of doing that.
    It is thought the Germans must realise the risk & will take all precautions to prevent and aerial attack but there is no information on the defences deployed and no time to find them out.


    Lt Terry Bull & his observer AM1 Jack Dawe in their FE2b (#4) lead the way into the cutting leading to the bridge at low level - immediately coming under heavy MG fire whilst still out of range
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    (wrong card subbed for for 2A later)

    Oblt Johannes Achilles has been ordered to patrol the east entrance of the Tavannes Tunnel and attack any enemy aircraft seen - as he approaches he sees a large British machine enter the cutting
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    Bulls machine shudders from another hit and fire breaks out behind him
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    Dawe finally exchanges fire with the gunpit & does some damage - a second MG lashes them with fire
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    (missed a pic of the exchange)

    The fire takes hold and it's too much for good old #4 - she crashes into the floor of the cutting
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    2Lt Justin Hale & AM2 "Ar" Sole arrive in the cutting in FE2b #6 even as #4 goes in - the first MG post is still active and rounds fizz toward them
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    Obltn Achilles breaches the lip of the cutting - followed by Ltn Hans-Eberhardt Gossner in a red Fokker eindecker.
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    Hale's machine takes further damage but not as heavy as Bull
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    Finally in range Sole opens up on the first gun position & scores some hits, even as the second takes up the cudgel
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    Ltn Otto Hengl enters the arena in a striped Fokker eindecker, approaching from the North
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    Finally at close range Sole shuts down the first gun position for good
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    His prompt action saves the ad hoc crew of Lt Bill Foldes & 2Lt Phil Atterley in the BE2c from taking any hits as they enter the cutting.
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    Achilles had set himself up to attack the first FE as he entered the cutting - he was wrong footed as the MG positions annihilated it before he could engage - dropping into the cutting he found no target but became one for the second FE as it roared along the cutting. The guns of the cutting fell silent when the blue Halberstadt dropped into the cutting Sole could not believe his luck - a target & no incoming !
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    Sole pumps more rounds at the blue Halberstadt - both he and Hale are shocked when a red eindecker drops over the lip of the cutting and unleashes a fusillade into them from above
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    Foldes & Atterley see the red eindecker as it turns towards them - it fires briefly then the gun stops
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    Sole hammers the blue Halb
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    Atterley rakes the red eindecker at close range as it passes into his arc of fire - flame - he's hit it hard !
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    Atterley catches the eindecker again as it deftly flicks over and reverses its course blowing lumps out of its tail surfaces
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    Flame bites into the red eindecker as it straightens out after the reversal
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    The BE rocks under a barrage from a striped eindecker as it roars over the lip of the cutting
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    It doesn't put Atterley off as he claws the red eindecker out of the sky with a well aimed burst
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    #6 passes the blue Halb which turns in pursuit and damages their controls from range
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    Another surprise visitor drops in on Bull and Atterley - a green eindecker puts a burst through the cockpits injuring both - the damage enough to put the machine down
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    (missed a shot here)

    Severely damaged Hale's machine forges on leaving the blue halb in it's wake as it zig zags behind them - a flak round bursts nearby from a gun position above the tunnel mouth but has no effect
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    As the sun sets behind him Hale toggles his bomb release, the unburdened machine rises and they see their load disappear into the tunel mouth
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    A cacophonous double explosion lifts them higher as they pass close overhead and pushes them over the rim of the cutting
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    Mission accomplished against the odds - Hale keeps his nose down and heads for home as fast as his broken machine will allow
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    Ltn Hans-Eberhardt Gossner: (Fokker E.III Red) SD-EXP-FT 0 kills
    Rolled 8 -3EXP = 5 Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenario. Rolled 5 = skip 3 (WWW)
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    Oblt Johannes Achilles (Blue Halberstadt) RTB 0 Kills
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    Ltn Otto Hengl (Fokker E.III cdl striped) RTB 0 Kills
    Ltn Willi Kieckhäfer (Fokker E.III Green) RTB 1 Kill


    Lt Terry Bull (P2) FE2b (#4) SD-FLM-ET 0 kills
    Rolled 10 -2FLM = 8 Injured - Skip 1D2 Scenario. Rolled 5 = Skip 2.
    E&E: Rolled 7 -1FLM -1WIC -1BEL = 4 Captured and escaped! - Skip 1D3 Scenarios . Rolled 3 = Skip 2 (RW)
    AM1 Jack Dawe (O) SD-FLM-ET 0 kills
    Rolled 10 -2FLM = 8 Injured - Skip 1D2 Scenario. Rolled 3 = Skip 1.
    E&E: Rolled 7 -1FLM -1WIC -1BEL = 4 Captured and escaped! - Skip 1D3 Scenarios . Rolled 4 = Skip 2 (WR)
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    Lt Bill Foldes (P2) BE2c SD-ET / WIA 0 kills
    Rolled 9 -1SD -1WIA = 7 Injured - Skip 1D2 Scenario. Rolled 5 = Skip 2.
    E&E: Rolled 8 -1WIA -1WIC -1BEL = 5 In hiding! - Skip 1D2 Scenarios. Rolled 2 = Skip 1 (RW)
    2Lt Phil Atterley (O) SD-ET / WIA 1 Kill
    Rolled 7 -1SD -1WIA = 5 Injured - Skip 1D3 Scenario. Rolled 3 = Skip 2.
    E&E: Rolled 7 -1WIA -1WIC -1BEL = 4 Captured and escaped! - Skip 1D3 Scenarios. Rolled 2 = Skip 1 (RW)
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    2Lt Justin Hale (P2) FRTB-D 0 Kills
    AM2 "Ar" Sole (O) FRTB-D 0 kills
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    A potential squad killer for sure - I played the rules and dropped a Hun into the cutting which stopped the guns and saved the game for me, allowing the lads a run at the prize but it was still a near run thing.
    Two ruler range AAMG's are frankly ridiculous - the planes should have the same if that's the case, +1's for firing from just above is the same. I didn't play limited ammo as I usually do.
    I made it work but due to the potential losses & time it would take to run twelve machines down the channel this is not a good campaign game in my opinion, fun as a stand alone though.
    Last edited by flash; 08-02-2019 at 08:31.

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #2

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    Good to read your game write up, Dave. I’ve done mine but haven’t started the write up. I used an AAMG range of 1 ruler but was fortunate in that mostly my planes faced the annoyance of Archie. Even with 1 ruler range for AAMG I would have had more trouble if I had faced more AAMG.

  3. #3

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    Nicely done, Dave, and thanks for the idea for the cutting.
    I think I will dig out the railway tracks I printed for Dale’s mission a few years back (R.I.P. Setarius)
    I also think I will repaint the second camo Halberstadt I picked up this week from a forum member.
    I was going to go with CDL but I like that pale blue. I will try to match the Roland and C.III I have.

    As already stated I think this should be a standalone scenario, rather than part of our campaign.
    It looks really challenging, but does not allow me to fly my regular scouts who are the main characters.
    (although losing Karsten Rudiger made it a moot point, I suppose.)

    Thanks for showing us how to do it, and congratulations for coming out with no major losses.

  4. #4

    Thumbs up

    Well done Dave on completing the mission successfully!
    You were lucky not to lose any of your crews in that one! Rep on its way mate.
    Why are we using two ruler lengths for the AAMG range. That's just crazy. Fine for Flak but not MG's.

    I also agree with you & others that this would have been better for a standalone mission as we could not use our named scout pilots.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    ...Why are we using two ruler lengths for the AAMG range. That's just crazy. Fine for Flak but not MG's.
    Them's the rules as wrote Baz - see Neil's clarification post #21 in the BRF:
    1) No range reductions for altitude differences as these are all within 1 normal altitude level. So all ground fire will not be affected by peg level differences.
    Correct, all guns, whatever type can fire at anything within 2 rulers away; as the pegs are 1 to 4 max, deal with it.

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #6

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Them's the rules as wrote Baz - see Neil's clarification post #21 in the BRF:

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Nicely done, Dave, and thanks for the idea for the cutting.
    I think I will dig out the railway tracks I printed for Dale’s mission a few years back (R.I.P. Setarius)
    Pete I didn't realise Dale had died, I sent him a pm a while ago asking how he was but didn't get a response, so I assumed it wasn't good.
    Im sorry to hear this news, it reminds us of our own mortality and I enjoyed his companionship in the campaign and miss his input.

  8. #8

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    Well Dave that was an interesting one, success in the face of all the odds. So congratulations to all your crews.

    I didn't realise you had such a big table and that pale green mat is lovely, almost looks like carpeting but you've painted it superbly well. The railway tracks are a great idea, I'm thinking of trying to do a 3d table for this, so might try and follow your example.

    I'm really looking forward to this one to be honest, I know there have been some reservations based on predicted casualties, but I read the scenario and could see the scene from the film as clear as if i was watching it on the screen.
    I read the thread about hight pegs and flying into walls and tunels until my eyes bled and i lost the will to live to live but it seems to me that if you are in the cutting and enemy planes are outside it then they would be the same as the AA guns and not be able to fire down unless maybe tailing the plane in the cut.

    However we are all capable of resolving our rules questions to our own satisfaction and you've given us an enjoyable read as usual, plus some food for thought.
    Cheers

  9. #9

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    Well done Dave. Well flown. I'm sorry most of you feel that this is not a campaign game and should be a stand alone. If you feel the need reduce the AAMG to 1 ruler.

    I had my reasons to include a scenario/mission such as this to include at least 1 mission against insurmountable odds. Not all pilots had the opportunity to not fly and did so time and again against better aircraft with little chance of success.

    That said you can always refuse to fly it.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  10. #10

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    Apologies Dave rep gun firing blanks. Will return to do so when proper ammo delivered.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Well Dave that was an interesting one, success in the face of all the odds. So congratulations to all your crews.

    I didn't realise you had such a big table and that pale green mat is lovely, almost looks like carpeting but you've painted it superbly well. The railway tracks are a great idea, I'm thinking of trying to do a 3d table for this, so might try and follow your example.

    I'm really looking forward to this one to be honest, I know there have been some reservations based on predicted casualties, but I read the scenario and could see the scene from the film as clear as if i was watching it on the screen.
    I read the thread about hight pegs and flying into walls and tunels until my eyes bled and i lost the will to live to live but it seems to me that if you are in the cutting and enemy planes are outside it then they would be the same as the AA guns and not be able to fire down unless maybe tailing the plane in the cut.

    However we are all capable of resolving our rules questions to our own satisfaction and you've given us an enjoyable read as usual, plus some food for thought.
    Cheers
    I’m sorry that trying to get clarity on what was intended led to you losing your will to live but glad you got through that dark spell. (I think the length of the to-ing and fro-ing of posts was that Neil and I weren't on the same page which might have been due to his reading posts on his phone. Once we got on the same page it was all clear in an instant. There's a moral there somewhere.)

    Disagree with you about AA guns and planes outside. There is a difference. The guns are on the ground and the planes are not. One of my first projects as a military operations researcher involved line of sight calculations for the army. However I won’t show you the calculations lest it lead you again to a dark place.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 08-03-2019 at 06:25.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Them's the rules as wrote Baz - see Neil's clarification post #21 in the BRF:

    1) No range reductions for altitude differences as these are all within 1 normal altitude level. So all ground fire will not be affected by peg level differences.
    Correct, all guns, whatever type can fire at anything within 2 rulers away; as the pegs are 1 to 4 max, deal with it.
    Doh! I read that as more to do with the effect of peg height on ranges and not that AAMG had an increased range (i.e., that normal range rules apply with all targets treated as being at the same height - with the exception of a +1 for height advantage). I guess that's my land rules experience that biased me with machineguns being classed as 'heavy infantry weapons' and not as 'great gonnes' like flak, anti-tank and artillery.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ..I didn't realise you had such a big table and that pale green mat is lovely, almost looks like carpeting but you've painted it superbly well....
    Why thanks John - table is 6x4, as is the grass green carpet on top of it ! An off cut I picked up some 15 years ago now.
    I flew most of my early missions in OTT on it before I got mats (some of the old hands will recognise it) I later did so as much to say to people you don't have to have mats to play in the campaign - and it's quite good for terra-forming a battlefield for low level stuff.

    "He is wise who watches"

  14. #14

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    First iteration wasn't anywhere near as bloody as I was expecting. Congrats on a well-flown, successful mission.

    Reg gun jammed, though.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Why thanks John - table is 6x4, as is the grass green carpet on top of it ! An off cut I picked up some 15 years ago now.
    I flew most of my early missions in OTT on it before I got mats (some of the old hands will recognise it) I later did so as much to say to people you don't have to have mats to play in the campaign - and it's quite good for terra-forming a battlefield for low level stuff.
    It's funny you should use this mat at this point because I've been wondering about doing my games on a single colour background mat so that the planes would show up better against it, I think I will follow your lead on this.
    I've just started mission 7 this evening so it will be mission 8 when I will get to it and it will be a 3d game as Mrs V has come up with a wizard way of doing that. All I need now are some railway tracks, do you remember where you got your track pictures from?
    Cheers

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Pete I didn't realise Dale had died, I sent him a pm a while ago asking how he was but didn't get a response, so I assumed it wasn't good.
    Im sorry to hear this news, it reminds us of our own mortality and I enjoyed his companionship in the campaign and miss his input.
    I posted this a few weeks ago in the Officer's Club section.
    I probably should have put a link in the DYM section as well.

    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...light=Setarius

    This site has a nice video remembrance of Dale:
    https://www.lindseyfuneral.com/notices/Dale-Garrett
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 08-03-2019 at 22:56.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ... All I need now are some railway tracks, do you remember where you got your track pictures from?
    In the WW2 files John - https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...p?do=cat&id=29
    Train set 2 printed off on A4 sheet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Doh! I read that as more to do with the effect of peg height on ranges and not that AAMG had an increased range....
    See 'special instructions for AA/AAA fire' - the second 1 & 2 entries:
    "1. Any aircraft that flies within 2 rulers of any card then turn over."
    "2. if the card is an AA gun or AA mg then activate & fire"
    Also see under execution - Defender 4. .... therein lies the key to unlock the game !
    Last edited by flash; 08-03-2019 at 23:33.

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I posted this a few weeks ago in the Officer's Club section.
    I probably should have put a link in the DYM section as well.

    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...light=Setarius

    This site has a nice video remembrance of Dale:
    https://www.lindseyfuneral.com/notices/Dale-Garrett
    Thanks Pete, I only had limited internet during July so missed this completely much appreciate your rememberance comment.
    Cheers

  19. #19

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    K
    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    In the WW2 files John - https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...p?do=cat&id=29
    Train set 2 printed off on A4 sheet.


    See 'special instructions for AA/AAA fire' - the second 1 & 2 entries:


    Also see under execution - Defender 4. .... therein lies the key to unlock the game !
    Yes, I saw the special instructions but only read that as activating the card - ie turning the card over when within first plane is within 2 rulers and then may fire as appropriate and in accordance with the rules. Not the AAMG had a 2 ruler firing range.

    As for defender 4 point unlocking the game....I believe I got a reasonable replay of the scenario without a defending plane entering the cutting. Whether how I played it “unlocked” the game or not you can judge once I post my AAR.

  20. #20

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    Hence the later clarification I guess Paul !

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Hence the later clarification I guess Paul !
    Hence the “Doh!”, Dave.

  22. #22

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    In the WW2 files John - https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...p?do=cat&id=29
    Train set 2 printed off on A4 sheet.
    Thanks Dave, I found the files and downloaded them, so once I've finished my current game in the jungles of SE Asia this will be up next.

    Assuming I have any gold dust left in the printer that some call ink.

  24. #24

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    Well done Dave. I have to say its a good job I didn't read this before completing my own mission 8 because I admit to having completely missed the idea of a two range stick AAMG. Fought mine as a single. In any case I flew at max altitude so the AAMG shouldn't have come into play, if I read that correctly. As it turns out I made one big error there anyway and it cost me dearly. In the end, ground forces turned out as one AAMG and three AA guns. Didn't get far enough for the remainder to come into play. You fought that well Dave and going in to knock out some of the ground defences must have helped too. Rep gun jammed at present but its well deserved and I shall return with it later. Personally I did enjoy the mission, even though it cost a lot of crew, but I take your points as well.

    PS Rep gun now cleared - incoming so heads down
    Last edited by mikeemagnus; 09-13-2019 at 13:52.

  25. #25

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    Well done for Justin Hale to gently place his egg in the Hun nest. A rough handling of the flight with only one flying home but the value of the target put cost out the window.

    Being the first one in you showed us the way. Sadly my attempt fell short but there is always next mission!

  26. #26

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    Good AAR! It was a nice read.



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