OTT DYM Mission 6 - Where's my Gunner? - 12th February 1916 by Vagabond

[ShadowDragon]

To make sure we're all on the same page, and for Uncles sanity, for the purposes of this scenario the bombing rules will be played as written and as given in the scenario.

Righteo, Uncle. Setting up right now...oh, and....

[Vagabond]

Right I'm back home and have internet on tap, I also have wine on tap and so I'm a happy bunny. I see the bombing/altitude discussion has continued but with Uncles intervention we all know what we are doing, thanks Dave.

Some time back Pete asked about Elll's crossing the lines and intimated he would use Halberstadts because the Elll's were not allowed over. I hope this isn't too contentious but I dont mind the Germans using Elll's, we are using a mish mash of things, ie using planes that were available at the time but wouldn't have flown in the same squadron, so I agree with Mike in his scenario when he said "be inventive in your story to explain why they are there". Hope that's ok with everyone.

I'm hoping to remember the limited ammo rules for drum mg's and use them, it will give the planes a better survivability, I was also intending using a variation on the main AA rules rather than the token drawing one which I assume is an optional rule and see how they pan out.

Paul I'm looking forward to seeing how your game plays, I should get mine done in a few days time.

Cheers

[ShadowDragon]

Right I'm back home and have internet on tap, I also have wine on tap and so I'm a happy bunny. I see the bombing/altitude discussion has continued but with Uncles intervention we all know what we are doing, thanks Dave.

Some time back Pete asked about Elll's crossing the lines and intimated he would use Halberstadts because the Elll's were not allowed over. I hope this isn't too contentious but I dont mind the Germans using Elll's, we are using a mish mash of things, ie using planes that were available at the time but wouldn't have flown in the same squadron, so I agree with Mike in his scenario when he said "be inventive in your story to explain why they are there". Hope that's ok with everyone.

I'm hoping to remember the limited ammo rules for drum mg's and use them, it will give the planes a better survivability, I was also intending using a variation on the main AA rules rather than the token drawing one which I assume is an optional rule and see how they pan out.

Paul I'm looking forward to seeing how your game plays, I should get mine done in a few days time.

Cheers

It’s all set up and ready to go. Two Halberstadts with No observer and all MG removed escorted by an Oeffag 153. Defending scouts are done at random based on planes I haven’t used yet - 2 x pups, 1 x camel and 1 x SE.5a. Rolled for a pup first up which should help the bombers as it’s only B guns.

[ShadowDragon]

Right I'm back home and have internet on tap, I also have wine on tap and so I'm a happy bunny. I see the bombing/altitude discussion has continued but with Uncles intervention we all know what we are doing, thanks Dave.

Some time back Pete asked about Elll's crossing the lines and intimated he would use Halberstadts because the Elll's were not allowed over. I hope this isn't too contentious but I dont mind the Germans using Elll's, we are using a mish mash of things, ie using planes that were available at the time but wouldn't have flown in the same squadron, so I agree with Mike in his scenario when he said "be inventive in your story to explain why they are there". Hope that's ok with everyone.

I'm hoping to remember the limited ammo rules for drum mg's and use them, it will give the planes a better survivability, I was also intending using a variation on the main AA rules rather than the token drawing one which I assume is an optional rule and see how they pan out.

Paul I'm looking forward to seeing how your game plays, I should get mine done in a few days time.

Cheers

Done...

4 targets with direct hits (one had 1 direct and 2 partial hits)
4 targets with partial hits (one with 2 partial hits)
1 target not hit at all

1 defending scout shot down

Points = 12

Note the density of targets makes it very easy to get partial hits. The initial run is deadlier as you can line up the bombers versus a line of targets. Much harder to get the bombers into position afterwards for a similar run.

Discussion with Pete helped me a lot.

[Vagabond]

Done...

4 targets with direct hits (one had 1 direct and 2 partial hits)
4 targets with partial hits (one with 2 partial hits)
1 target not hit at all

1 defending scout shot down

Points = 12

Note the density of targets makes it very easy to get partial hits. The initial run is deadlier as you can line up the bombers versus a line of targets. Much harder to get the bombers into position afterwards for a similar run.

Discussion with Pete helped me a lot.

Jolly well done, in my trial run which was only one pass I managed 1 direct and 2 partial, you just need to write it up, or have you already done that.

[ShadowDragon]

Jolly well done, in my trial run which was only one pass I managed 1 direct and 2 partial, you just need to write it up, or have you already done that.

Have I already done that.....hahahahahahaha……......No.

Likely by the weekend.

[zenlizard]

I don't think I'll be able to get to this one until later in the month. Busy, busy, busy. Was kind of hoping I would, but it's not happening.

[Stumptonian]

I have added the 'bomb cards in flight' back to my calculations for those who want to give it a try..
The smaller numbers at the top show the actual range of the bomb card placement, the larger are the median of the two
My numbers match Dave's comments from the earlier post (#33) except for the Y deck for some reason

An XB straight is 1.3cm, the bomb card is 6.8cm, add the two then multiply by four and the front edge of the final bomb card is at 32.4 cm.... anything beneath the last 6.8cm is hit by the bombs. ie between 25.6 & 32.4cm from Alt 8. A stall drop hit will be 23.2 - 30cm.
Each Y deck bomb drop would be 28.2 - 35cm. (For completeness an Alt 8 B-U deck drop would be 39.2 - 46cm)

WGF Bombing.jpg  Views: 53  Size: 167.1 KB  ID: 268701" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

If anyone wants the Excel file PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.
I saved in Excel 2010 and Excel 97-2003
The Excel version also has the dimensions in inches.

[flash]

Remember chaps, there is no measuring allowed during bombing - it must be calculated by a SWAG. (scientific wild-assed guess)
Pete's chart may help you with the scientific part - note it includes the last move of the model as well as the released bombs.

[gully_raker]

I guess I will just "Wing it" as usual & see what happens.
As I read it after all the various inputs you play 3 cards after tableing the Bomb Card.

[Vagabond]

I guess I will just "Wing it" as usual & see what happens.
As I read it after all the various inputs you play 3 cards after tableing the Bomb Card.

Hi Barry there has been a lot of discussion but yes you are right, that was my original intention, the bombs will be 3 turns in the air. So play a movement card for the plane, then move the plane, then the same movement card for the bomb, then the bomb card. Then repeat the same movement card and bomb card twice more and it hits the ground, covering the red spot of the target.
The movement cards are either 3 straights or 3 stalls, the same card for each bomb. Different bombs can be straights or stalls but normal flying rules apply for the plane, I.e. a stall must be followed by a straight.

I think my intention is to lay out the cards on a flat area as if they have been dropped to get an idea of the two distances involved and then pack them away and play the game the following day. That way I have a basis for when to drop the bomb but it will be a bit vague.
That's what I did for my trial and I only managed to hit 1 target out of 3 bombs dropped, one after the other in the first pass, so it didn't give me a lot of help.

I know you'll do better

[Stumptonian]

Played mine today.
Just two direct hits, and several partials.
The previous discussions at least had me paying close attention to the bombing plans but I still have trouble with my estimates and missed dropping the third in a string because I was too busy tracking the first two.

The XD deck (I decided against using XC XD Y, and just used XD while loaded) having no sideslips really hamstrung me.
My bombing charts did help quite a bit, but I definitely need more practice.

Keeping track of the bombs and aircraft moves really gets awkward when they are close to each other.
Need to think of some way to handle that better.

Luckily there was only one enemy to deal with ...

An interesting scenario, John.
Looking forward to the AARs.
I will try to get mine posted sometime this week.

[flash]

Played mine yesterday too. Using a G deck I quickly realised that the furthest reach of the bombs from the given altitude is one and a half rulers from release, so anything that looked just out of gun range was in bomb range ! ( G deck is the same speed as the Y deck).
Had a good run in but circumstances ruined the run out. Still a reasonable result though.
Very fiddly as Pete says to run planes, bombs & multiple drops close together. Probably not what was envisioned when the mechanics were created (I was tempted to just run the bomb cards to target straight away as nothing would deflect them & it would get them out of the way).
The diagram helped too - had a mental block & had to remind myself that the card you declare bombing on is not what dictates the speed the bomb drops, it's the following move (on which the bomb is released).
Thanks for the challenge John !

[Stumptonian]

I was tempted to just run the bomb cards to target straight away as nothing would deflect them & it would get them out of the way ...

I was thinking the same thing after I was done.
With stationary targets there is no real reason to drag it out.
But I think you would have to leave them at their starting points and move them after all in a string have been announced before moving them, so there would still be lots of cards on the table.

[ShadowDragon]

I was thinking the same thing after I was done.
With stationary targets there is no real reason to drag it out.
But I think you would have to leave them at their starting points and move them after all in a string have been announced before moving them, so there would still be lots of cards on the table.

I can see why you'd want to wait for a string of bombs in successive turns to be announced before moving as you'd immediately see if something hit which would influence a decision the following turn.

One thing I wondered about, given the set up of 2 rulers away from the first target, is whether or not different speeds would make it more or less challenging to hit targets - especially the 1st target. I found that starting 2 rulers away I need to drop a bomb immediately using anything but a stall card (i.e., essentially a straight). If I had not done this there is no way to have had a direct hit on the 1st target. A straight (1st phase} followed by dropping a bomb on a stall (2nd phase) would have been just shy of a direct hit. So dropping immediately on a straight was the only option for a direct hit on the 1st target. Of course, if the bombers could start slightly further back from the 2 ruler mark then it's possible that a stall-straight-stall (drop bomb) might have worked.

That was for K/V deck bombers. I did not check other bombers but I suspect that if they may also have had few choices for manoeuvres prior to dropping a bomb on the 1st target for a direct hit. It's possible that, starting at 2 ruler lengths away that some decks may not have had any option for a direct hit on the 1st target on the run out.

What this means is that you have to plan the bomb run several moves in advance of dropping the bomb. I didn't take enough time and space for the turning my bombers around and consequently was unable to get single direct hit. Given the density of the targets, partial hits are much easier.

[Stumptonian]

What this points out to me is we need to stick with low level bombing
The rules as written are pretty sparse.
I think using dice to determine accuracy might actually be better than what we have.
6: Overshot
5: Partial
4: Direct hit
3: Partial
2: Undershot
1: Dud

Another thing I thought about would be having different size markers determined by altitude.
Bombing from very high altitude would be a counter the size of most wargame counters.
i.e. Very difficult to get a direct hit.

[zenlizard]

Well, I finally found the time to run this mission...and looking over some of the other AARs, I completely screwed up the set-up. I'll have to re-do it. Little more delay. Grrrrr.

[ShadowDragon]

Well, I finally found the time to run this mission...and looking over some of the other AARs, I completely screwed up the set-up. I'll have to re-do it. Little more delay. Grrrrr.

Do what I do when I screw up the set up....write it into the storyline. Although I don’t have to face uncle’s wrath electron-lashing since my AAR are unofficial.

[flash]

... Although I don’t have to face uncle’s wrath electron-lashing since my AAR are unofficial.

Don't count on it .... and watch out when you are...

[ShadowDragon]

Don't count on it .... and watch out when you are...

I’m not...and I will.

By the way, it was a Brit boss of mine who impressed upon me the importance of being economical with the truth.