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Thread: Ju-87 'Stuka' Variants

  1. #1

    Default Ju-87 'Stuka' Variants

    I was wondering if anyone's ever tackled fielding Stuka variants later than the B-2 model. I wanted to use the G-2 model for a ground-attack scenario, and while I have rules in mind for the guns I'm curious about the base plane.

    From what I can recall, the G-2 model was heavily based on the D-3 model, with many D-3/D-5's being converted to carry the 37mm guns (with more modified D-models carrying the 37mm than the G-2 series). The only major differences I can gather from the B-2 and D-series is that the engine was upgraded and it had slightly better armour.

    If it's simpler, I'd be happy for rules you've used for a D-series Stuka.

    Has anyone tried this? If so, what have you done to make it as accurate as possible? If nobody has, I'll try my best to make one.

  2. #2

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    Not exactly Stuka, but I painted and used Hs129s in EF ground attack scenario. Memoir'44 T-34 mi minis are second to none for that purpose.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  3. #3

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    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  4. #4

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    The Unofficial Stats committee have the Ju.87A, B-2 and R-2 versions in their list, but no Ds or Gs.

    I have an incomplete Spanish Civil War A-2 card in my WIP bin:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also, there are three versions of the Hs.129, B-2, B-2(1944), and the B-3. It appears that Andy [Nightbomber] has a Max Headroom card for his planes. I haven't attempted that aircraft as a card.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  5. #5

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    I can't imagine how I missed doing Rudel's famous Stuka.
    Let me look at things this week, and see what I can come up with.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Might need units and crews...
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #7

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    OK, near as I can find on-line, the Ju.87G models, with 37mm pods max speed is about 360km/h. so use the I deck, and only plot slow speeds, and your there.
    Oh, and no dive bombing with the gunpods attached
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  8. #8

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    So far, the only rules I'm confident on are these:

    - The D/G models have an armour value of 19, as they were up-armoured compared to the B version for better use in the ground-attack role.
    - All still have a ceiling of 8 and a climb of 6, except for the G-2 which has a climb of 7 (gunpods)
    - The D-5, which had its machineguns replaced with 20mm cannons, does a C-token at short range and an A-token at long range (representing how hard it is to position the Stuka to hit a target, fighting against gravity and stiff manoeuvrability)
    - The G-2 does no forward damage as it had no machineguns - only 37mm anti-tank guns. It does D-D/D against ground targets (which I'll elaborate on in future).
    - The G-2 can only perform slow movements (gunpods)

    All still use the I deck with no modifications. Anyone see any problems with this?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Perhaps cards could appear for the Hs.129s?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  10. #10

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by OldGuy59; 04-25-2019 at 09:21.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by RobotSpark View Post
    So far, the only rules I'm confident on are these:

    - The D/G models have an armour value of 19, as they were up-armoured compared to the B version for better use in the ground-attack role.
    - All still have a ceiling of 8 and a climb of 6, except for the G-2 which has a climb of 7 (gunpods)
    - The D-5, which had its machineguns replaced with 20mm cannons, does a C-token at short range and an A-token at long range (representing how hard it is to position the Stuka to hit a target, fighting against gravity and stiff manoeuvrability)
    - The G-2 does no forward damage as it had no machineguns - only 37mm anti-tank guns. It does D-D/D against ground targets (which I'll elaborate on in future).
    - The G-2 can only perform slow movements (gunpods)

    All still use the I deck with no modifications. Anyone see any problems with this?
    Actually, since the D-5 carried 2x20 mm MG 151/20s, the forward guns would be C-C/C
    Otherwise, looks OK.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Actually, since the D-5 carried 2x20 mm MG 151/20s, the forward guns would be C-C/C.
    I mentioned this (it's why I gave it C/A) but I don't know if it's really fitting for the Stuka to be able to deal large amounts of damage like that. I'm just concerned about balancing fairness and historical accuracy - I've justified C/A by saying that it's harder to aim with the Stuka due to poor manoeuvrability.

  13. #13

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    Here's a picture of a JU 87 G-2
    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #14

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    I also read somewhere, that the cannons did not impear the Stuka's
    maneuverability, but that the pilots, were not trained that well in aerial gunnery.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future Pilot View Post
    I also read somewhere, that the cannons did not impear the Stuka's
    maneuverability, but that the pilots, were not trained that well in aerial gunnery.
    I can't imagine that the gun pods didn't impair flight; the weight and drag would certainly cause the Stuka to be in a loaded condition, like carrying a full load of bombs.
    As for AtA shooting, the RoF would make chances of a hit on an aircraft very low. But yes, I doubt the pilots had any real training in shooting planes.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I can't imagine that the gun pods didn't impair flight; the weight and drag would certainly cause the Stuka to be in a loaded condition, like carrying a full load of bombs.
    As for AtA shooting, the RoF would make chances of a hit on an aircraft very low. But yes, I doubt the pilots had any real training in shooting planes.
    Karl
    Yes, I might have been wrong about what I read, because it was a few years ago, it might have been the exact opposite, so sorry for my contradictory statement.

  17. #17

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This could be a card, with a paint scheme, unit and pilot info...

    Something like this, perhaps:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by OldGuy59; 05-01-2019 at 22:00.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #18

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    Looks great, Mike
    Hans-Ulrich Rudel

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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Looks great, Mike
    Hans-Ulrich Rudel

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yup, that's the color scheme I attempted.

    PS: The version I used had a Yellow tail band, as well.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Yup, that's the color scheme I attempted.

    PS: The version I used had a Yellow tail band, as well.
    I missed your updated pic by two minutes - it was just the B&W when I was posting.

  21. #21

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    Here's 2 of Rudel's G-2s. The second is one he flew to surrender to the Western Allies, rather than stay for a welcome by the Soviets!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pilot - Geschwader-Kommodore of SG 2 Oberstleutnant Hans Ulrich Rudel. East Front, 1944-1945..jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pilot - Col.Hans-Ulrich Rudel, gunner - Cpt.Niermann. This aircraft crashed during landing at Ki.jpg 
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ID:	267184
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  22. #22

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    Try this?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    PS: Or fly a regular Stuka with this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Variant_Card_Ju-87G-2.jpg 
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    Last edited by OldGuy59; 05-03-2019 at 16:08.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  23. #23

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    Terrific, Mike.
    I will be downloading this for sure.

  24. #24

  25. #25

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    Absolutely brilliant! It feels so satisfying to see the rules in such a nice format!

  26. #26

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    Beautiful cards as usual Mike! Good thing I have 1 available Stuka to paint up for Rudel.

  27. #27

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    I will be desperately rummaging through my Stukas to find one for that bird Mike.
    Thanks for yet another great card.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."



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