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Thread: Started with Valom Fokker EIII set

  1. #1

    Default Started with Valom Fokker EIII set

    Just started the Valom Fokker EIIIs. One will be done as Udet’s and one as Immelmann’s. Had thought of replacing the metal etched parts for the wheel carriage assembly but that looked tricky and when I painted the joy stick I found it was tougher than I thought. So will see how it goes. My intention is to do some minimal rigging and to use Peter Pig pilots....so why paint the cockpit interior? ...cuz it’s there? Anyway, a small start...

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    Will try RAF Shapeways again for EIII but with the cheapest option. (Had requested the mid range out of curiosity.)

    Some pointers at this stage.

    1) You will need good tweezers to place the seat, instrument panel and joy stick. It helps to have a needle type device. I have something from a zoology university class (yes, decades old) that was used in the class for dissection and moving delicate frog organs or bits of flat worms around. Now I find it useful to position fiddly bits. Anything will do with a point but not too sharp end and with a reasonable handle.

    2) Supposedly one is to position the seat and the instrument panel and check for alignment of the two fuselage halves. Tough to do but you need to have some means of temporarily placing the seat and the panel to do that and there's no guide marks, ridges, etc. on the fuselage halves to help you either. Well I did my best but when it came to assembling the fuselage halves one set worked a charm while the other didn't. The instrument panel was keeping the two halves apart. So, I delicately trimmed off the end of the panel sticking out...and the two halve fit just fine....until I was gluing them....then not so much, but clamps helped. There's a tiny crack at the front but it can be filled easily enough.

    3) I nicked a small hole in the fuselage for where the joystick was to be placed since it's just a straight piece of metal with nothing on the fuselage surface to hold it. Any imperfections that show on the bottom outside can be fixed later.

    4) Paint the inside bits before assembling the fuselage - likely that obvious to everyone but anyone can glue the two halves together and then realize, "doh!"

    5) Glues! My intention was to use modelling glue for plastic (I just had a cheap Testor's tube) and epoxy for the metal bits. Well....supposedly the modelling glue works by slightly melting the plastics for a very tough join. So I thought, but I was priming the inside when one seat went.....PING. I found it but re-glued with epoxy. Well the epoxy hasn't worked - neither epoxy steel or gel epoxy. I suspect my old Testor's plastic cement was too old. So, off to the store to get some newer stuff....Tamiya extra thin and a new testors.

    6) Instrument Panel...as noted above trim the ends slightly if you think it's too wide for the fuselage halves. Also, it only glues to the side of the fuselage and not the top as the top is curved so if you glue to the top then it will be at an angle and not allow the two fuselage halves to fit. I think that it's a terrible join for the panel's narrowest side to be glued just to the fuselage side which has not plastic guides. I reinforced the panel with a glob of epoxy on the backside of the panel - any other solution for reinforcement that works for you will be fine.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 03-16-2019 at 16:41.

  2. #2

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    Good start - looking forward to seeing your progress.
    (I have a couple of Rumplers I've been too lazy/scared to try...)

  3. #3

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    Lovely. Looking forward to seeing more as you work through the build.

  4. #4

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    I've almost finished my first Valom E.III - I'll be interested to see how your build works out (and if you find any handy tips to help me with the next three!).
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I've almost finished my first Valom E.III - I'll be interested to see how your build works out (and if you find any handy tips to help me with the next three!).
    Post above edited for pointers.

  6. #6

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    Next stage - and probably shouldn't all have been the next stage (see below) - assembling the fuselage and adding the wings.

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    Tips or probably more like comments as I go along:

    1) I should have added the engine before the wings. The two resin pieces in the centre are the engines. They have a nub on both sides. On one side it fits into the propeller but on the other side....as you can see, nothing. You can either drill out a hole or cut off the nub. I'm opting for drilling a hole which would have been much easier before I put the wings on but it just means I will need to be careful when doing it (and to make sure the hole is properly located.

    2) Clamping the fuselage is essential unless you are comfortable holding the pieces together for a long time - especially if the parts want to pull apart at some point. Glue takes awhile to cure and it needs that time if there's any tendency of the parts to separate. I just used office clips - the kind they use for holding reports together. They come in all sizes and worked very nicely. I used 3 on the one that wanted to pull apart and 2 on the other.

    3) My ultimate jig material for small bits (and these are all small bits in this kit) is plasticine. I've mostly done miniatures - 6mm, 15/18mm and 20mm (per normal height person). A lot of them are ancients with separate weapons, shields and sometimes arms. I've tried many different things to hold the parts together (yes, I have heard of crazy glue but it's not always what you want especially if you want something to fill a space then a gel epoxy works great). Ultimately I've settled on plasticine. It sticks to things - sometimes to everything such as fingers other than the parts you want. It holds its shape, but can be adjusted while the glue dries. That's what I've used here to hold the wings at the proper level. I just eyeballed the level of the wings. I've tried measuring but the eyeball works best for me but I still make mistakes.

    4) I glued the wing on one side and let it dry before putting on the other wing. That's because the wings didn't fit snugly into the holes on the fuselage. I did use a pin vise to drill the holes deeper as they were very shallow. There's another hole on the bottom that appears to be for the undercarriage. I drilled that deeper too.

    5) As I will be rigging the planes I drilled holes in the wings. I tried to get them in the proper spot on one wing but I think the drill bit slipped a smidge to one side. The holes should form the corners of a rectangle. Mine is a quadrilateral with ambitions to be a rectangle. For the other wings I used the first one as a template by holding the wings aligned and drilling through the holes of the first wing into the holes of the other wing. Note that the other wing on the same side is aligned one on top of each other (bottom to top) with the same orientation. The two wings on the other side were aligned bottom to bottom.

    6) Supposedly one is supposed to put on the stabilizers and rudder before the main wings. That way seemed the way to madness as you'd be trying to level the wings based on the stabilizers. The reverse seemed more sensible to me....but I could be wrong as I've been wrong before and will be again.

    7) This site makes 1/32 scale models but has excellent downloadable instructions, background information, colour schemes, etc.

    http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/

    I'll let the wings cure overnight to ensure a good, strong bond....I hope.

  7. #7

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    Keep 'em coming Paul!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    Keep 'em coming Paul!
    Will do but now there’s a wait....and it has to do with glue. I had used epoxy steel but that forms a wee bit of a brittle bond. I thought it was good enough until I was fiddling with one of the planes and a wing snapped off. Hmmm....to brittle a bond given the small area that’s glued versus the leverage on the join from a large wing. So I’ve switched to gel epoxy and immediately know why I dislike it....smelly and it takes 3 days to cure. But hopefully that works.

  9. #9

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    I used Revell polystyrene cement on the fuselage halves, wings and horizontal stabilisers of mine. The glue "welds" the two parts together.

    No problems, no coming apart, and survived a drop-test onto carpet!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I used Revell polystyrene cement on the fuselage halves, wings and horizontal stabilisers of mine. The glue "welds" the two parts together.

    No problems, no coming apart, and survived a drop-test onto carpet!
    I’m suspicious my Testors polystyrene cement was too old. In fact I was half expecting it to have been dried out. It wasn’t so I gave it a try but I think the dissolving agent had evaporated. Anyway, I will wait 3 days and test the wing strength. If they one off I will get some new polystyrene cement and try it again.

  11. #11

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    After waiting 3 days for the gel epoxy to dry it was time to test the strength - both the epoxy steel and gel epoxy failed - easily failed. When trying to drill a hole for the resin engine the fuselage split plus it was too easy to snap off the wings. So it's back to polystyrene cement. I picked off the epoxy which was very easy to do which says something about the lack of a good bond.

    I probably should have started with new polystyrene cement but I live in the country and my vehicle spent a good part of last week in the repair shop. Polystyrene used to available everywhere but no so much since kids started sniffing if. Tomorrow it's off to a hobby shop which, since I live in the country, about 45 minutes away.

    Three steps forward - two steps backward.

    The good news is that my molybdenum 0.08mm wire arrived. I hope to use this for the rigging. It looks good.

  12. #12

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    When trying to drill a hole for the resin engine the fuselage split plus it was too easy to snap off the wings. So it's back to polystyrene cement.
    I found there is no need to make a hole for the engine nub; it sits flush against the solid flat front end of the fuselage, it doesn't need to penetrate it.
    The longer nub faces backwards, touching the fuselage - the cylinders will thus be closer to the cowling aperture than to the fuselage, but there is plenty of room.
    If you set the engine 'further back' by fitting the rear nub into a hole in the fuselage, I think it will not be possible to place the prop on the forward nub (there will be too much cowling aperture "overhang").
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I found there is no need to make a hole for the engine nub; it sits flush against the solid flat front end of the fuselage, it doesn't need to penetrate it.
    The longer nub faces backwards, touching the fuselage - the cylinders will thus be closer to the cowling aperture than to the fuselage, but there is plenty of room.
    If you set the engine 'further back' by fitting the rear nub into a hole in the fuselage, I think it will not be possible to place the prop on the forward nub (there will be too much cowling aperture "overhang").
    Thanks for that tip, Tim. I wondered about that but didn’t find it easy to check. Did you find you needed to trim the ends of the cylinders to fit in the cowling?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Did you find you needed to trim the ends of the cylinders to fit in the cowling?
    I needed to shave a little bit of extra 'flash' off the edges, but, if you try this BE VERY GENTLE! The first time I tried, a cylinder snapped off, and disappeared into the wild blue yonder (my blue carpet!).
    I have placed the engine so that the missing cylinder is within the cowling ring, and I intend to glue the prop so that it partially obscures the gap.

    The engine piece slides fairly easily into the cowling ring, and a tiny drop of glue on each cylinder end helps to keep the engine in place (superglue, not polystyrene cement, as the engine is resin and will not "weld").
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I needed to shave a little bit of extra 'flash' off the edges, but, if you try this BE VERY GENTLE! The first time I tried, a cylinder snapped off, and disappeared into the wild blue yonder (my blue carpet!).
    I have placed the engine so that the missing cylinder is within the cowling ring, and I intend to glue the prop so that it partially obscures the gap.

    The engine piece slides fairly easily into the cowling ring, and a tiny drop of glue on each cylinder end helps to keep the engine in place (superglue, not polystyrene cement, as the engine is resin and will not "weld").
    I’ve cleaned the flash and, yes, one needs to be gentle. Fortunately, I still have all my cylinders - or so I tell myself.

    Doh! Glue the cowling and then checking the fit is easy.

    Good tip about a drop of glue on each cylinder that’s under the cowling.

    Folks, if I can get through this kit anyone can as I’ve not a skilled modeller. Never

  17. #17

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    Heres a link to someone with real modelling skill:

    https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/...p?topic=9660.0

    Yes, the plane is 1/144 and a valom one to boot...or so says the modeller. Scratch built spoke wheels!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Heres a link to someone with real modelling skill:

    https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/...p?topic=9660.0

    Yes, the plane is 1/144 and a valom one to boot...or so says the modeller. Scratch built spoke wheels!



    wow!!!!

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Heres a link to someone with real modelling skill:

    https://forum.ww1aircraftmodels.com/...p?topic=9660.0

    Yes, the plane is 1/144 and a valom one to boot...or so says the modeller. Scratch built spoke wheels!

    That's ridiculous!!!!!!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    ...Yes, the plane is 1/144 and a valom one to boot...or so says the modeller. Scratch built spoke wheels!
    Gak - I'll get m'coat... ! You can go off some people

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #21

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    Just saying I have no words is using too many words.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    That's ridiculous!!!!!!
    Says the man with more military aircraft than a couple of countries - perhaps more than just one - perhaps more than even that one.

    https://www.nationmaster.com/country...ombat-aircraft

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Says the man with more military aircraft than a couple of countries - perhaps more than just one - perhaps more than even that one.
    It would take a few of us put together to equal Tim's air force! (says a man who is afraid to count his own collection)

  24. #24

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    Now that is impressive!
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  25. #25

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    From the sublime to the ridiculous or the other way around...

    While ****ing around with glues and unmaking and remaking the Fokker I decide to build and then rebuild the undercarriage and wheels that were missing from one of my Ufags (one out of 110 if you’re doing stats on quality). The other Ufags had rectangular struts and one of those aerodynamic slabs between the wheels. So my first go was to make the struts out of card. I had order o-rings from an online industrial company but checking gave no indication they were bothering. So I made the wheels out of card. The result was frankly passable if you squinted. However looking at pictures of real Ufags I saw that the struts were all tubular - it had been my first idea to make the struts of wire. So I ripped off the card version and made an undercarriage of 5 pieces of wire. I went to my local hardware for o-rings. The smallest they had was 6mm diameter - close enough. Got it all assembled and lo and behold the industrial o-rings arrived 100 each of 4mm and 5mm...the last were pretty close to the Ares ones so 2 of these got the nod. The result is okay - war game-able anyway.

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    Anyone need wheels for 100 aircraft? Tim?

    As for the Fokker...more later. The glue is curing for the last stabilizers.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Anyone need wheels for 100 aircraft? Tim?
    Alas, no.

    But I do need wheels for 3 aircraft - all Shapeways

    One FE2b came with just one wheel, instead of two (free replacement plane arrived complete)

    Two Caudron G4s arrived with no wheels at all (I suspect they were supposed to be ski variants, but there was no such detail in the description).


    Nice work on the UFAG

    Work has stopped on my Fokker (and others) as I suffer through yet another illness ( a sudden, violent sneeze plays merry hell with painting ailerons and panel lines!).
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Alas, no.

    But I do need wheels for 3 aircraft - all Shapeways. One FE2b came with just one wheel, instead of two (free replacement plane arrived complete). Two Caudron G4s arrived with no wheels at all (I suspect they were supposed to be ski variants, but there was no such detail in the description).
    So, keep the O-rings since I plan to be paying shapeways (e.g. Pomilio, SAML, Voison, DH2, etc.) and they may be missing wheels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Nice work on the UFAG
    Thanks. I admit there's a few rough spots on the fill for the O-rings that shows up mostly on the edge between the fill and the o-ring rubber. I didn't want to fiddle with it too much in case I made it worse. So either I'll just leave as since it's probably not noticeable an a wargames table (just in photos) or I'll need a different (less viscous) modelling paste. I'm mostly happy with the wire carriage which I thought would be a lot more trouble - especially trouble getting it level but it worked out okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Work has stopped on my Fokker (and others) as I suffer through yet another illness ( a sudden, violent sneeze plays merry hell with painting ailerons and panel lines!).
    Yes, as someone who suffers from allergies I do understand violent sneezes - as does one of my dogs who runs away when that happens.

    I do have some thoughts on how Valom could soooo easily improve their models to make it easier on poor modellers like me.

  28. #28

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    After ripping the wings off and the fuselage apart, things have proceeded more as described in the instructions. LoL

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    Running commentary, which is probably more accurate than 'tips'!

    1) One thing I did which wasn't specified is that that I painted the rudders and positioned the decals. It looked like it would be more difficult to positioned the decals with the stabilizers in place. It was tough enough without the stabilizers due to the shape of the decal and the shape of the rudder.

    2) I had a heck of a time with the stabilizers - only 1 of 4 of them ended up securely glued and they were very difficult to position correctly. A 3D object has 6 parameters that define its position in space - 3 translational (up/down, front/back, left/right) and 3 rotational (spinning about a vertical axis (yawing), spinning about a front to back axis (rolling) and spinning about a left-right axis (pitching)). When you position a model piece you can potentially make a mistake for all 6. Usually, since you have to glue a piece to something, it's a maximum of 5 mistakes - although 6 are possible if you're freely (i.e., no pins, tabs, markers, etc. to guide you) positioning a piece on a curved surface. To me a well designed model minimizes the number of potential mistakes. For example, if the stabilizers had two pins that went into two pin holes on the fuselage you'd only have to make sure the stabilizer was level left-to-right as the pins would fix it with respect to all 3 translational parameters and 2 of the rotational parameters (pitch and yaw). Our dear friends at Valom allow you to make mistakes in 5 of the parameters. The stabilizers have no pins and there's nothing on the fuselage to serve as a guide, so you can position it too high/low, too far forward/back, twisted about the vertical axis, not level front to back and not level side to side, I did my best but I could never quite get all 6 parameters right - 1 or 2 always ended up a bit off. Valom helps you even more with the design by giving you the smallest possible surface area with which to glue the stabilizers to the fuselage. The rudders were slightly better but only slightly. Oh well. I did have an idea afterwards which was to build a 'box' that would hold stabilizers level and at the right height which would mean I would only have to worry about the front-to-back position of the stabilizer. Mind you getting the height of the 'box' correct has its own challenge but at least you can test and if its wrong build another.

    3) Everyone's experienced doing their consumer reports research, reading reviews and buying the so-called quality item only to find out they got the one which was built late on a Friday just before a long weekend by the one disgruntled employee in the shop. Well in this case it's the one E.III that will be painted as Udet's. It's the one with the fill in the picture because although the fuselage halves were positioned correctly when glued and clamped when I looked at it the next day the two halves had slipped. It's the one where the two halves would quite meet, the one where the instrument panel vanished without a trace, the one for which gluing both stabilizers failed the first time around and the one for which the rudder has Udet going in a gentle curve.

    4) Tonight the wings go on and as you might see from the picture there's not much left in terms of plastic bits - the wheels and the propeller which are glued respectively to the brass carriage and the resin engine.

    5) It's the first time I used ultra-thin plastic cement - really lovely to work with. I used both ultra-thin and the regular stuff in tubes depending on what made sense - which is 'God knows' in the case of the stabilizers.

  29. #29

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    I have only assembled 2 Valom Pups. Lovely models but more work than I wanted. Paul, I feel you pain and admire your efforts. I have another 2 Pups to do along with 4 Fokker DVIIs but they will wait a long time if I ever do them. For gaming planes I will repaint ARES or do Shapeways. Someday when I want a model project they might get done.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I have only assembled 2 Valom Pups. Lovely models but more work than I wanted. Paul, I feel you pain and admire your efforts. I have another 2 Pups to do along with 4 Fokker DVIIs but they will wait a long time if I ever do them. For gaming planes I will repaint ARES or do Shapeways. Someday when I want a model project they might get done.
    Shapeways was my first choice for Fokker EIII. I even ordered a couple along with some balloons (which arrived last week!) but I chose them in the 'Professional Plastic' option just to see what that looked like 'in the hand'. The balloons were in versatile plastic. Unfortunately the Shapeways engineer rejected the Professional Plastic EIII. RAF has since removed that option for EIII. In the meantime I thought I'd give the Valom models a try. Repainting ARES EIII is, alas, no longer an option. Even the Buddecke ones have (mostly?) disappeared. Mind you for nearly $200 you can buy an Immelmann on Ebay. In any event the next plane models for painting will be Shapeways because I want some Italian and AH ones that aren't available elsewhere.

    But....the wings are on! And they're reasonably level. Unfortunately you can see that there's at least one stabilizer that's noticeably wrong. I'm not sure it's a good idea to take it off and redo. I will think about it but I will resist the temptation to fiddle until tomorrow when the wings are fully set. You will notice that I didn't do the 'boxes'. The wing is, of course, at a very slight angle that made that impractical so I went with my standby for support - plasticine.

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    The undercarriage brass bits are on...

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    1) Despite all the comments about the brass bits they're weren't anymore annoying than the plastic bits like the stabilizers...but not necessarily less annoying. LoL. The challenges were - (a) the front part of the carriage to which you cement the axle is a straight piece that's scored where you bend it into a 'W' which is fine except the outer arms of the 'W' are too long so you either have to clip them or fix them to the widest part of the axle (and lord knows what that will mean for putting on the wheels - but that's the wheels problem and (b) for one of the 'W' one of the outer arms broke which seems like a problem but it wasn't really any more difficult to glue on then it was to line up and glue the one that didn't break.

    2) The tail bit that holds the rear end of the plane off the ground was so-so. My main problem was eyesight. I just couldn't see what I was doing.

    3) The easiest bit was the frame that will hold the rigging wires. Even easier was that my wife came to the rescue with her jewelry making stuff. She had small beads (she actually had smaller ones but I wasn't sure I'd be able to see well enough to thread those 4 times) which I glued to the top of the frame. I will threat my molybdenum wire through the beads; glue the wires to the beads; thread & glue the wire to the holes I drilled in the wings and then tie them off & glue to the undercarriage. I'm actually looking forward to doing that although I'm sure I will regret those words but, hey, I can have 6 days of peaceful dreams (3 days for the glue to cure on the undercarriage and the rigging 'A' frame and 3 days for the glue that will hold the wires to the bead to cure).

    4) When I was doing the tail bit I realized the one thing I thought I had done okay was not....the rudder is pitched to far backward. It should be rotated about 15 degrees forward. But hey....these Fokkers have rudder damage!

    5) I'm not sure I will glue on the teeeeeeny bits that are steps for the pilot to get into the cockpit. They're so tiny I can hardly see them in the etched brass set. I may leave them off as a form of pointless protest!

    6) Once the rigging is done then I can glue on the wheels and the propeller. After that I can hurl them at maximum velocity against a hard surface....no, then I get to paint them.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    6) Once the rigging is done then I can glue on the wheels and the propeller. After that I can hurl them at maximum velocity against a hard surface....

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    The undercarriage brass bits are on...

    the front part of the carriage to which you cement the axle is a straight piece that's scored where you bend it into a 'W' which is fine except the outer arms of the 'W' are too long so you either have to clip them or fix them to the widest part of the axle
    I encountered the same problem - fortunately, I am painting a Shapeways Eindecker and an Ares E.III at the same time.

    The outer arms are NOT too long; the photo-etch triangle should be bent before the upside-down 'W' part is attached. There is no mention of this in the Valom instructions.
    Viewed from the engine, the wheel ends of the axle should be bent downwards a bit, so the longer outer arms of the upside-down 'W' reach the axle, and the central 'V' lower point touches as well in the centre; all 3 can be glued with superglue.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I encountered the same problem - fortunately, I am painting a Shapeways Eindecker and an Ares E.III at the same time.

    The outer arms are NOT too long; the photo-etch triangle should be bent before the upside-down 'W' part is attached. There is no mention of this in the Valom instructions.
    Viewed from the engine, the wheel ends of the axle should be bent downwards a bit, so the longer outer arms of the upside-down 'W' reach the axle, and the central 'V' lower point touches as well in the centre; all 3 can be glued with superglue.
    Looking at photos of Eindeckers it seems obvious that's what I should have done with the Valom. It seems you must build a couple of Valoms to know how to build a Vaolm. Oh well. What's done is done for my models.

    If I have problems with the wheels I might add another wire for the axle and perhaps even bend it.

  35. #35

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    I realized I don't need to wait the full three days for glue to cure before adding the rigging wire to the 'A' frame support but I do have to wait three days before continuing with the rigging. In the picture the ends of each wire are taped together to make it easier to figure out which ends are paired. The slightly short wires are taped to the back in the picture and the longer ones to the front. I'm doing four wires - each from the 'A' frame to the wing and back to the undercarriage. The technique is one I found on the Fokker EIII thread on the forum (Jan / Honza) except I'm using molybdenum wire. Jan used copper threads from electricians wire which is far more fragile than molybdenum wire....to say the least.

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  36. #36

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    Let's just say I am so glad I bought 3 extra Buddecke E.III to repaint*


    Not sure I will ever use the 'blacked out cross' version, but, like Tim, I want to have one of each Nexus/Ares unmodiified.

    * the first of which saw action yesterday in the Over the Trenches: Daring Young Men campaign.

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Let's just say I am so glad I bought 3 extra Buddecke E.III to repaint*


    Not sure I will ever use the 'blacked out cross' version, but, like Tim, I want to have one of each Nexus/Ares unmodiified.

    * the first of which saw action yesterday in the Over the Trenches: Daring Young Men campaign.
    I'm almost tempted to get another Valom kit but with decals enough for 4 planes it makes more sense to get 2 Shapeways ones. After these I will focus on two Shapeways balloons so I can play OTT-DYM Scenario 1. I might work on my Valom Fokker Dr.I in the background but my priorities after the balloons will be Italian Front 2-seaters (for both sides) and Flik 55J with Oeffag 153 (Arigi, Maier, Kiss, Kenzian, Kaszala and Lahner - the Emperor's Squadron) plus Bromowski (since you can't find the Nexus one - all painted up as MvR ones - alas).

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    The outer arms are NOT too long; the photo-etch triangle should be bent before the upside-down 'W' part is attached. There is no mention of this in the Valom instructions.
    Viewed from the engine, the wheel ends of the axle should be bent downwards a bit, so the longer outer arms of the upside-down 'W' reach the axle, and the central 'V' lower point touches as well in the centre; all 3 can be glued with superglue.
    Tim - Thanks for this info, I bought these Valom kits partly so I could use the spare decals on two Shapeways Elll's and put off starting on the kits because I knew the undercarriage would be a nightmare. This might make it easier, but I doubt it.

    Paul this is proving an instructive thread

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Tim - Thanks for this info, I bought these Valom kits partly so I could use the spare decals on two Shapeways Elll's and put off starting on the kits because I knew the undercarriage would be a nightmare. This might make it easier, but I doubt it.

    Paul this is proving an instructive thread
    You can always be an example for others - whether good or bad.

    My biggest frustrations were because I made mistakes I didn’t need to make. Valom’s part in that is that they didn’t provide instructions that would help me avoid those errors.

    The undercarriage wasn’t as difficult as it appears - even with the one arm of the ‘W’ breaking off. It was no more so than scratch building the wire one for the Ufag. The most difficult part was getting the stabilizers aligned correctly (I did take two off and re-align after the wings were on) and glued so they’d stay on - and that’s partly the design of the EIII. I’m most disappointed about the rudders. For wargaming it might not matter but I will always know they’re rotated too far backwards. With the decals on as well as the stabilizers it would only make it worse if I cut them off and repositioned them.

    My overall advice is to treat it a little bit like your scratch building the plane and get as many diagrams and pictures as you would for scratch building....maybe even do a shapeways one in parallel.

  40. #40

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    I following this thread with great interest, as I have laying around two of the kits (along with a few other Valom). As you mentioned above, the meaning of the dual set is not "buy one - get two", but "try one, to master the second". The advantage is the cheap price (if you don't calc' in time ,flight stand and card printing costs) and the surface quality in comparison to shapeways. But I can't see, for which customer type they're design for. A modeller would be disappointed by the lag of precision and the mistakes in the airplane versions. For a wargamer the kit is overdetailed and too fiddly resp. unsturdy. I think they are intended for wargamers, but therefore they could be much more simpler in detail to raise the stability.

  41. #41

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    A quick photo to show the undercarriage front-on............

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    Valom E.III on the left, Shapeways E.I on the right, Ares E.III in the background.

    Working on all three together gave me hints and ideas how to proceed with the Valom.

    I didn't think to take pictures as I went along - I will try to do so with my next one (starting soon).
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo7 View Post
    I following this thread with great interest, as I have laying around two of the kits (along with a few other Valom). As you mentioned above, the meaning of the dual set is not "buy one - get two", but "try one, to master the second". The advantage is the cheap price (if you don't calc' in time ,flight stand and card printing costs) and the surface quality in comparison to shapeways. But I can't see, for which customer type they're design for. A modeller would be disappointed by the lag of precision and the mistakes in the airplane versions. For a wargamer the kit is overdetailed and too fiddly resp. unsturdy. I think they are intended for wargamers, but therefore they could be much more simpler in detail to raise the stability.
    I good question about who is the customer type. They certainly seem to hit the middle between model and war gamer without the benefits of a product designed for either. I am unlikely to do more Valom models after the Dr.I kit simply because it’s too time consuming. I probably wouldn’t have bought the two kits I did if I had read posts on the forum first.

    One point is that I don’t find the models as fragile as people think. I started rigging yesterday (yes, I know I said I’d wait but I’m impatient and life is short) and given how I handled the models I think they’ll stand up to gaming.

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Valom E.III on the left, Shapeways E.I on the right, Ares E.III in the background.

    Working on all three together gave me hints and ideas how to proceed with the Valom.

    I didn't think to take pictures as I went along - I will try to do so with my next one (starting soon).
    Nice job on the undercarriage.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    I am unlikely to do more Valom models after the Dr.I kit simply because it’s too time consuming. I probably wouldn’t have bought the two kits I did if I had read posts on the forum first.
    I was in the same mood after finishing my D.VII for the forum contest. But after a year of successful repression I did another one . And as I wanted a Pup, I ordered 10 further Valom kits

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    One point is that I don’t find the models as fragile as people think. I started rigging yesterday (yes, I know I said I’d wait but I’m impatient and life is short) and given how I handled the models I think they’ll stand up to gaming.
    I can confirm that. They are surprisingly sturdy. Especially after a coat of gloss varnish. Its supporting the whole construction.

    Nevertheless I don't let anyone touch it, for sure. It shall be my privilege to destroy it by muddleheadedness. It would be too challenging forgiving an accident caused by another player.

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karo7 View Post
    I was in the same mood after finishing my D.VII for the forum contest. But after a year of successful repression I did another one . And as I wanted a Pup, I ordered 10 further Valom kits
    On the other hand I might order another kit just to prove I can do it right.

  46. #46

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    I'm nearly done the rigging - done one and just need to fix the four cables on the rear of the wing to the undercarriage.

    I've been using 0.08mm molybdenum wire that I bought online from Best Buy for CA $6.99 plus shipping for a spool of 100m. Enough for a few Jastas/Fliks for sure.

    It's the first time I've used this type of wire for rigging. I did rig a Langton American Civil War vessel with thread, which is my entire experience with rigging. I like the molybdenum wire but it was a question of learning on the job here. So this is my advice:

    1) Do not glue the wire to the centre bed on the A-Frame as I did. Do each wire (one at a time) and then if you thing it will help put a small dab of glue into the hole in the bead. I followed the steps advised by Jan but Jan used copper threads from strands of electricians wire which is far more fragile and flexible than molybdenum wire.

    2) Molybdenum wire is thin (0.08mm) but it's strong and stiff. The latter is something I didn't initially exploit to my benefit. I thought it would be more flexible than it was....to my regret for at least one wire coming off the A-frame on one of the planes. That wire is bowed upwards a wee bit too much. You can't see it in the picture because it's upside down one.

    3) I got the idea of using molybdenum wire from someone who had rigged a biplane by cutting the wire to the right lengths and tacking each end to the appropriate spot. I should have clued in on that, but....sometimes you learn only through experience.

    4) My suggestion - do one wire at a time. Have a length of wire that's long enough to go from the undercarriage to the hole in the wing, to the A-frame, to the hole in the wing on the other side and back to the undercarriage with enough leftover to facilitate working with the wire. Put a kink in the wire where it will be centred on the A-frame. Measure it out to the hole in the wing. Put a kink in the wire so that it will be relatively taut when stretched from the kink centred in the A-Frame to the kink that will be in the hole. Glue the wire to the hole in the wing. Do the same for the other side - it will now be easier to ensure the wire is taut because it will have been glue to the other wing. On the underside measure the wire to the central bar in the triangular brass piece. Put a kink in the wire. Stretch the wire and glue to the bar so that the kink in the wire helps to hold the wire in place. Do the same for the wire on the other wing. There's no need to wrap wire around the bar. Glue will hold and the stiffness of the wire will hold its shape. I used forceps from my wife's jewelry making kit to clamp to the wire and let that loose end of the wire hang down with the weight of the forceps to keep the wire taut while the glue set. (I even tried this with two wires at once and two forceps but the one wire (the top one) didn't hold.)

    5) My model with the finished rigging has too much glue. Partly that because of the trouble I had with the undercarriage (i.e., not understanding that the triangular brass piece should be bent as per Tim's advice) and partly its because I got halfway through rigging this model when I realized I hadn't put the decals on the wings - you don't want to do that afterwards. So I had to undo the wires and put the decals on. That meant extra glue was left. I didn't get it off because I didn't want to **** with the undercarriage too much. That was, frankly, just stupidity / forgetfulness on my part. It also meant a couple of the wires to the undercarriage (the inner one at the front) are too 'wavy'. Be careful with stiff wire. Once it's bent or curvy you won't get it straight again - at least not when attached to Valom model.

    6) The next step will be the wheels with a new wire axle added because I screwed up how the undercarriage was supposed to be assemble. After that, it's painting time.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  47. #47

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    There are way too many joints in that undercarriage for it to be easy, hopefully the paint will hide rather than emphasize the glue. Very impressed with what you are trying to do with the rigging, I wonder if brush hair might be easier to work with.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    There are way too many joints in that undercarriage for it to be easy, hopefully the paint will hide rather than emphasize the glue. Very impressed with what you are trying to do with the rigging, I wonder if brush hair might be easier to work with.
    The wire was actually easy to work with - easier than doing some parts of the model. If you cut the wire to length for segments and glue I would think it would be about the same as brush hair and possibly easier.

    I only used that standard Krazy Glue. My wife uses 4 different kinds of glue for jewellery making. A different choice (e.g., with a finer application nozzle and a set up to hold the model rather than just my hand would have help to minimize the glue build up.

  49. #49

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    The wheels are on - I tried an extra axle but it just didn't look right, so the wheels are directly attached to the brass frame. I managed to take some of the glue off and hopefully a clever paint job will minimize the rest. However, the plane rests on four points - the tail skid, the wheels and the back of the brass triangle because the brass triangle wasn't bent as it should have been. If the frame had been bent the wheels would be lower and the back of the brass bit higher.

    Gluing the wire to the to of the cabane A frame caused problems as it set the wire coming off it at undesirable directions in some cases - most noticeable for a couple of wires on the back of the plane on the right side of the photo and one wire on the left side. Working one wire at a time would have avoided that. I could, of course, snip off those wires and then glue a straight wire segment of the right length to replace those three wires but I'm going to leave as is as it's possible that would end up with an unexpected problem and there'd be no going back.

    The is the first model plane I've built in a long while. The previous one being a Mustang at 1/72 scale for use in ground combat (Command Decision - 20mm figures). I'm not going to throw these models against the wall. They will have to wait for their paint job. I'm waiting for Peter Pig pilots and mounting stuff from the Aerodrome and Litko.

    This experience shows that at this scale working with the fiddly bits you do need the right tools and products (and patience - I rushed a few times when I shouldn't have). Very far from something that really good modellers on this site can do and not even in the same universe as the 'insane' modeller who did the Valom plane at the link I posted above - the guy who scratch built his wheels with spokes.

    Anyway here they are:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 03-26-2019 at 05:33.

  50. #50

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    My Mustang as a one off for air support in ground combat...

    Click image for larger version. 

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