Official Ilya Muromet Painting Thread

[rhodie80]

These are Shapeway 1/144 Ilya Muromets type V made by Kampfflieger models. They are fantastic models that are very easy to work with. I hit them with a few coats of spray primer and painted away. The decals are from 1/144 Direct and are gorgeous. The gunners are Shapeway 1/144 Standing Observers (Entente) made by Reduced Aircraft Factory. Thanks to Keith Upton, Oberst Hajj, for the fantastic bases. The Aerodrome makes it so easy is to do custom base design. As special thanks to Zoe Brain for a paint recommendation. Zoe suggested using Chroma's Josonja Artists' Colours Moss Green. You were bang on as I think the color is perfect. I need to thanks Dave. Flash, for the great Russian Air Force Book he sent and was a great reference.

[redcoon2]

Spot on. Great job Jim.

[flash]

Bravo Jim - They look awesome !

[Teaticket]

Awesome. These look great Jim.

Reading about the Ilya Muromets I see a version had a gunner at the end of the tail. Now to find a photo or drawing of this. Maybe the Shapeways version could be modified to have a tail gunner.

[Stumptonian]

Great job, Jim.
I bought some of those (and other) gunners from RAF, intending to use them in my Fe.2bs but decided they are too small for my shaky hands to finish properly.
Maybe if I get another pair .... (planes , not hands)

Must. Stay. Away. From. Russian. Front.

[malachi]

Wonderful Muromets, Jim

Reading about the Ilya Muromets I see a version had a gunner at the end of the tail. Now to find a photo or drawing of this. Maybe the Shapeways version could be modified to have a tail gunner.

From The Imperial Russian Air Service, Durkota, Darcey, Kulikov, Flying Machine Press.

From wingsoflinen:
"In winter of 1915-1916 the first Sikorsky S-25 Series G-2 Il'ya Muromets four-engine bomber was completed. Eight were built altogether. It was also known as the Kievskiy.

One gunner could assume a position atop the fuselage with his head above the top wing, with machine guns aiming fore and aft. Two other gunners were just aft of the wings using side windows in the fuselage, and a fourth was dragged to the tail on a small railed cart. This was likely the first tail-gunner position in any aircraft.

Five S-25 Type G3s were completed from early 1916 to 1917 followed by three during the Revolution, followed by roughly four S-25 Type G4 in 1917. The G-3s featured 220hp Renault engines plus 150hp R-BVZ-6 engines, twin fins, and armament of six machine guns.

S-25 Type G4s were built starting in July 1917. Perhaps only four were built before production was disrupted by the Revolution."

Would probably need to rework the tail planes and make side fuselage gunner positions. Are you going to build an internal cart to transport the gunner to the tail?

[Teaticket]

I might try to add on the tail gunner but I'll let you put in the railed cart in yours.

[Guntruck]

Oooo, shiny. Nice one Jim

[Flying Helmut]

Tremendous Trio, Jim!

Great info from the book, Chris.
Thanks for posting it.

[malachi]

Anyone have a card for the S-23 Type V?
15Q1-17Q4 XA (S) 33 9 8

[Larry R.]

These are Shapeway 1/144 Ilya Muromets type V made by Kampfflieger models. They are fantastic models that are very easy to work with. I hit them with a few coats of spray primer and painted away. The decals are from 1/144 Direct and are gorgeous. The gunners are Shapeway 1/144 Standing Observers (Entente) made by Reduced Aircraft Factory. Thanks to Keith Upton, Oberst Hajj, for the fantastic bases. The Aerodrome makes it so easy is to do custom base design. As special thanks to Zoe Brain for a paint recommendation. Zoe suggested using Chroma's Josonja Artists' Colours Moss Green. You were bang on as I think the color is perfect. I need to thanks Dave. Flash, for the great Russian Air Force Book he sent and was a great reference.

These bombers are magnificent! I'd love to see them in action!

[BobP]

WOW those are Awesome. Fantastic work.

[Teaticket]

Here is what I have found.

[malachi]

Thanks, Peter!

[Flying Helmut]

'W' deck????

Same as the Hannover CL.III????

I'd LOVE to see an Ilya Muromet try a sharp steep 90 degree turn!

[Teaticket]

Yeah, a bit questionable? I guess this card was made well before there were X decks and well before the W came out. I have no idea who made this. Unofficial list has it as an XA and 33 hit points, easy enough to fix.

[redcoon2]

Any chance we see these at ORIGINS this year?

[Mike George]

Very nicely done keep up the good work! The boomers will always get thru!

[OldGuy59]

Hmmm... firing arcs...

No top-down drawings of the twin-tail version with the tail-gunner position... At least, I couldn't find one.

[Zoe Brain]

Imperial type V and Soviet type G versions.

Clipper provided the conversion kit.

[CrashCraig]

Impressive collection Zoe. Thanks for posting

[Teaticket]

Zoe, love your Soviet with the tail gunner!

[malachi]

An impressive group, Zoe

[OldGuy59]

If you can't find one...

G series S-24 Drawing:


Removed the center tail, adding a middle vertical stab and two outer rudders. Mid-fuselage gunner position and tail gunner position added.

Attempted to match this:


PS: Firing arcs: Forward over-wing gunner; Rear over-wing gunner (restricted to level and above, with some tail blindspot)); Mid-fuselage dorsal gunner; and a Tail gunner, with no blindspot. There could be some mid-fuselage waist gunners? Not shown on the image above (S-24), though.

[Teaticket]

Thanks Mike. I have a couple to do so may make one a G. Shouldn't be too difficult. A good project for this winter.

[OldGuy59]

[OldGuy59]

Working out the Firing Arcs...


[Edit: Added Mid-dorsal Arcs, with note.]
[Edit: Changed Aircraft Type number.]

What to do about the mid-dorsal arc? Extended aft arc, from main wingtips with a blindspot for the tail? Or two separated arcs to each side? There should be an aft arc for higher altitude planes from this position, I would think. Just don't know how to show that...

PS: Better Quality Card: Wings of Linen wiki - Sikorsky S-24

[Teaticket]

Mid-dorsal,

Tail could be a problem so maybe an arc to each side?

Does he have 360 arc above? No need for any higher alt arc if thats so.

[OldGuy59]

Added mid-dorsal arcs and note (See above).

Working on the management card...

PS: If there is a target to the rear, with a few climb counters, it is possible to hit it with three guns. The rear wing gun, the mid-dorsal gun, and the tail gun. Darn!

PPS: Added a link to Wings of Linen wiki above, so a better quality image can be downloaded.

[OldGuy59]

[Edit: Fixed forward arc to fully indicate proper arc.]

PS: Better version here: Wings of Linen wiki - Sikorsky S-23

[Teaticket]

Beautiful cards Mike!

[malachi]

I didn't think the S24 had a tailgunner? That started with the S25 series, G-2, G-3, and G-4.

[OldGuy59]

I didn't think the S24 had a tailgunner? That started with the S25 series, G-2, G-3, and G-4.

I haven't got any personal resources for this, and online the info is mixed. What I have done could be wildly inaccurate. I have one site that gives the S-24 as G-1, and S-25 as G-2,3. (Source: http://wio.ru/ww1a/im.htm). I went with the photos on this site. These photos aren't the same as the model in the image posted by Zoe (Fuel tanks over upper wings).

The current Wikipedia entry is useless for figuring out weapons and firing arcs.

[OldGuy59]

The above Wings of Linen pages have better quality uploads available.