Some ideas on Ace Skills

[Sixer]

I had some thoughts on some Ace Skills; I'd love to know how they should compare to other Ace Skills, particularly in terms of Recovery Costs and Point Costs; they seem like they aught to be cheaper than most, but still useful.

Superior Aim: Aiming Bonus upgraded to B or C damage, as appropriate.
Loop Stall: As part of a Split-S or Immelmann Turn, a Stall may be substituted for the first Straight of a Split-S, or for the second Straight of an Immelmann Turn.
Diving Yo-Yo: The next longer Dive card from another Maneuver Deck may be substituted for the current Maneuver Deck's Dive, but it must be followed by a Stall (Honestly, I don't get why Dives aren't longer than Fast Straights to begin with).

[Flying Officer Kyte]

The dive thing has been explained before Ryan. As it is a two dimensional move, the distance is actually further than the plan view of the card.

Rob.

[Sixer]

While that is certainly true, it is, nevertheless, still not far enough:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brachistochrone_curve

[Flying Officer Kyte]

How steep is a peg level ? Someone actually worked it out on one thread.
Rob

[Sixer]

I think you are misconstruing my intentions with that Skill; the goal was not to reduce altitude over a greater distance, but to move over a greater distance at the same altitude by using a Dive, with the limitation that it is followed by a Stall.
Regardless, the basic physics of Low Yo-Yos says that a Brachistochrone curve path should be faster than a straight one, regardless of the beginning and ending altitudes; but, in many cases, the exit velocity will suffer.

Can I please get some feedback on the other Skills, since their use may be more readily apparent?

[BwanaJoe]

For Superoir Aim I’m guessing instead of the standard plus 1 you’d draw a B damage deck card if your plane uses an A deck and a C deck if your planes uses the B deck? Interesting concept. Basically the the pilot is an expert marksman. Have you tried it out? I’m curious if it routinely shortens the game. Of course you could always draw a batch of zereos.

[Flying Helmut]

The average damage per chit for the 'B' and 'C' chits is identical, so an "upgrade" from 'B' to 'C' will produce no change at all (on average).

[BwanaJoe]

The average damage per chit for the 'B' and 'C' chits is identical, so an "upgrade" from 'B' to 'C' will produce no change at all (on average).

So you would just draw an extra B card then instead of a B and C card. Or just use the C deck for both A and B damage planes.

[flash]

Superior Aim: Aiming Bonus upgraded to B or C damage, as appropriate.

When first looking at this Ryan it struck me as an optional rule rather than an ace skill. The optional rule Aim provides the aiming bonus, the ace skill Perfect Aim provides an opportunity to cause additional damage without consecutive phases of fire.
Superior Aim, as written, seems to be an upgrade of Aim rather than Perfect Aim, ie a continuous effect rather than a one off momentary one.
As an ace skill Superior Aim would negate Perfect Aim, who wouldn't take the chance to cause superior damage !
Maybe it could be a second tier of Perfect Aim, ie when the pilot becomes a double ace and be applied in the same manner with the same recovery as Perfect Aim.

Here is an overview of WGS damage that may help with ideas: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...amage-Overview

Loop Stall: As part of a Split-S or Immelmann Turn, a Stall may be substituted for the first Straight of a Split-S, or for the second Straight of an Immelmann Turn.

A split S is a stall/Immel/(Hi speed) Straight ... the first straight is the last card of the move, is a stall is appropriate coming out of a downward loop ?
An Immelmann is a (Hi speed) Straight/Immelmann/(lo speed) Straight... a stall would make some sense coming off the top of a half loop.
Both of these can be covered by the existing Acrobatic Pilot ace skill as they are non-straight manoeuvres (even if that may not have been the designers intent), with five recovery tokens.

Diving Yo-Yo: The next longer Dive card from another Maneuver Deck may be substituted for the current Maneuver Deck's Dive, but it must be followed by a Stall

This would be outside official rules but fine as a house rule, though to save altitude confusion you should follow the 'borrowed' dive with a climb to show the regain of altitude used to gain speed.
If wanted as an ace skill you could combine it with the Daredevil ace skill to allow two steeps to be played together with four recovery tokens.
Taking it this is your intent:

For ease of use you could combine a stall card with the dive to provide the extra distance in a dive rather than having to seek out cards from other decks.

[Sixer]

When first looking at this Ryan it struck me as an optional rule rather than an ace skill. The optional rule Aim provides the aiming bonus, the ace skill Perfect Aim provides an opportunity to cause additional damage without consecutive phases of fire.
Superior Aim, as written, seems to be an upgrade of Aim rather than Perfect Aim, ie a continuous effect rather than a one off momentary one.
As an ace skill Superior Aim would negate Perfect Aim, who wouldn't take the chance to cause superior damage !
Maybe it could be a second tier of Perfect Aim, ie when the pilot becomes a double ace and be applied in the same manner with the same recovery as Perfect Aim.

Yes, the intent is to upgrade the damage from the Aiming Optional Rule, rather than to upgrade Perfect Aim. Upgrading the damage of Perfect Aim alone would no doubt cost the same as Perfect Aim itself. However, the upgrade to the Aiming Optional Rule may cost less, due to being very conditional, but, due to being continuous, may cost more; either way, it would reward good piloting on both offense and defense. Perfect Aim would itself still have a value even with Superior Aim in play, since it's an upgrade to Aim, which happens outside Perfect Aim circumstances. If it were an upgrade to both Aim and Perfect Aim, it would be really expensive.

A split S is a stall/Immel/(Hi speed) Straight ... the first straight is the last card of the move, is a stall is appropriate coming out of a downward loop ?

Yeah, I forgot the original rules when I wrote that; I'm reconsidering whether or not it "Split-S"es should be allowed a following Stall with this Ace Skill, or not.

An Immelmann is a (Hi speed) Straight/Immelmann/(lo speed) Straight... a stall would make some sense coming off the top of a half loop.
Both of these can be covered by the existing Acrobatic Pilot ace skill as they are non-straight manoeuvres (even if that may not have been the designers intent), with five recovery tokens.

Yeah, I'm aware that these can be covered by the existing Skill; I'm interested in what the value is on its own. Sometimes, you want smaller Ace Skills.

This would be outside official rules but fine as a house rule, though to save altitude confusion you should follow the 'borrowed' dive with a climb to show the regain of altitude used to gain speed.
If wanted as an ace skill you could combine it with the Daredevil ace skill to allow two steeps to be played together with four recovery tokens.

After giving the Momentum rules a re-read, using a Dive and a Climb in succession rather than another deck works just fine; I was concerned that the Speed assigned to a Climb would be ambiguous, but I guess it isn't (even if it might be confusing for newbies).

Taking it this is your intent:

For ease of use you could combine a stall card with the dive to provide the extra distance in a dive rather than having to seek out cards from other decks.

Yup; thank you very much. That should make it clear to all involved what I'm trying to accomplish, and that Dive cards are too short!

[Sixer]

For Superoir Aim I’m guessing instead of the standard plus 1 you’d draw a B damage deck card if your plane uses an A deck and a C deck if your planes uses the B deck? Interesting concept. Basically the the pilot is an expert marksman. Have you tried it out? I’m curious if it routinely shortens the game. Of course you could always draw a batch of zereos.

Instead of the "A" granted by "Aiming", you get either a "B" or a "C", depending on the native damage type of the plane (I suppose planes with both should be allowed to choose? Or should the Defender choose?). It rewards players who can consistently fire on their targets.