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Thread: Shapeways, Sculpteo, and HP Multijet Fusion printing

  1. #1

    Default Shapeways, Sculpteo, and HP Multijet Fusion printing

    For 1:144 models of large aircraft, I greatly prefer the HP Multijet Fusion (MJF) materials (which Shapeways calls "Professional Plastic") to the normal white Versatile Plastic (nee WSF) and translucent Detail Plastic (nee FUD). Detail Plastic is too brittle for larger planes and Versatile Plastic can get bent out of shape and stay that way. The HP material is strong and resilient, and it has a somewhat better surface quality than the white plastic. Ideal for planes that might otherwise bend under their own weight. You can see a comparison of the three materials HERE.

    Unfortunately, though other designers and I have been bugging Shapeways about it, they have kept their price for that material at roughly double the price of the white plastic, putting it out of reach for most folks. Meanwhile, some of Shapeways competitors are offering it at cheaper prices than their Versatile Plastic equivalent.

    I recently ordered a Gotha W.D.11 from Sculpteo and it came out fine...I'll attach pictures at the end of this post. (The mottled gray surface is normal for this material and the color will be uniform with the first coat of primer. I'll post an updated picture as soon as it's warm enough to spray-paint.) The cost of that plane is:
    • Shapeways white versatile plastic (WSF): ~$26 US
    • Shapeways HP grey professional plastic: ~$54 US
    • Sculpteo HP grey MJF plastic: ~$40 US


    The only bad thing about Sculpteo is that they have no search tools, so the only way to find things is through an external link. But I think I'll start adding my larger designs to Sculpteo with a link on the Wings of Linen wiki, so that they're available at a much better price than what Shapeways will offer. I don't know if anyone will ever find things away from Shapeways, but it's worth a try. I've got a brand-new A.E.G. G.V that I've already copied to Sculpteo, and I'll be (slowly) copying other large planes over as time allows.

    Actually, I'm probably selling the material short by focusing only on large planes, since it's good for smaller ones too. But the extra stiffness of the material really pays off with the larger ones.

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  2. #2

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    Good news: Sculpteo dropped the price on their undyed HP Multijet Fusion (MJF) material. A new-model Short 184 is ~$18 in Shapeways Versatile Plastic, but the same plane is only $21-$24¹ in Sculpteo MJF, which I find to be far superior for larger planes. Shapeways would charge a fortune for the MJF version of that same plane..about $36. I definitely recommend MJF for larger models.

    ¹ = I can't tell whether the $21 price includes markup or not; Sculpteo's web pages are a little opaque in certain places.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for the heads up on this one Daryl. I'm looking to buy a couple of Roland D1s (Feb 1916) and an RAF RE7. If Sculpteo do these and the postage isn't going to be extortionate, I'll give the MJF a try. They are not large aircraft, I know, but right now I'm not after any such
    Lack of a search tool is a bit disconcerting but I'll see what I can dig up.


    OK had a quick look - 1)Nobody seems to have the Roland DI on Shapeways, only the DII and I don't yet know, personally, how different they are, so do not know if the DII can be used as a substitute with some changes! The DII is either by Decapod or Columbia and are £5.52 and £7.13 respectively in WNVP.
    There is only one RAF RE7 available, by Kampflieger, at £14.75!!!
    OK so then I looked at the Sculpteo site. looks to me like the customer needs to submit the design using any CAD programme and they then make it. How does someone like me, without those skills, take advantage? Like the idea of using them Daryl but how?
    Last edited by mikeemagnus; 03-31-2019 at 05:59.

  4. #4

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    On Roland D.I and D.IIs, "Both the D.I and D.II had minor differences in their construction, but in the main were almost identical." This is from 'German and Austro-Hungarian aircraft Manufacturers 1908-1918' by Terry Treadwell. Over 300 of these were built but there is no breakdown of how many of each. So a D.II can be used. Thanks for bringing this up, I have a couple unpainted. Now there is a good reason!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Thanks for the heads up on this one Daryl. I'm looking to buy a couple of Roland D1s (Feb 1916) and an RAF RE7. If Sculpteo do these and the postage isn't going to be extortionate, I'll give the MJF a try. They are not large aircraft, I know, but right now I'm not after any such
    Lack of a search tool is a bit disconcerting but I'll see what I can dig up.


    OK had a quick look - 1)Nobody seems to have the Roland DI on Shapeways, only the DII and I don't yet know, personally, how different they are, so do not know if the DII can be used as a substitute with some changes! The DII is either by Decapod or Columbia and are £5.52 and £7.13 respectively in WNVP.
    There is only one RAF RE7 available, by Kampflieger, at £14.75!!!
    OK so then I looked at the Sculpteo site. looks to me like the customer needs to submit the design using any CAD programme and they then make it. How does someone like me, without those skills, take advantage? Like the idea of using them Daryl but how?
    I've got an RE7 available too: http://shpws.me/Polq. I hadn't moved that over to Sculpteo, though -- let me know if you want to experiment and I will make that available there.

    As for finding things on the Sculpteo, it is very difficult. They really seem to be aiming at the designer printing their own models rather than a customer buying other folks' designs, so there is very little in the way of search tools, shops, and marketplace on their site. I've been adding Scupteo links to the Wings of Linen wiki, like this one: https://www.sculpteo.com/en/print/sh...i-144/DZug3BTZ. I think Sculpteo doesn't want to get into the marketplace business -- their attitude seems to be "there are other tools for that, like Shopify. We just print things.".

    I'd guess no one has modeled a L.F.G. Roland D.I because only small numbers of them were built, and all the decent drawings are of the D.II/D.IIa.

  6. #6

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    FWIW - I'm interested in the Friedrichshafen G.III and, as you don't have the Felixstowe on Shapeways, the Curtis H.12 for larger aircraft. For smaller aircraft - from you Shapeways collection - Brandenburg C.I, Brandenburg D.I, Albatros D.III (I intend to do Flik 55J the Emperor's squadron), Caudrons, Voisons, Savoia-Pomilios, Pomilios and SAML S2

    Not that I'm expecting that to have any influence.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    FWIW - I'm interested in the Friedrichshafen G.III and, as you don't have the Felixstowe on Shapeways, the Curtis H.12 for larger aircraft. For smaller aircraft - from you Shapeways collection - Brandenburg C.I, Brandenburg D.I, Albatros D.III (I intend to do Flik 55J the Emperor's squadron), Caudrons, Voisons, Savoia-Pomilios, Pomilios and SAML S2.
    Friedrichshafen G.III: https://www.sculpteo.com/en/print/fdhg3-144-1/m8ZnyAaN
    Curtiss H-12: https://www.sculpteo.com/en/gallery/...2-144/mXmLXT9M

    As for the smaller ones, let's see how the Sculpteo experience goes before I move over some smaller models (where the material advantages do not matter as much). So far the Sculpteo experience is confined to the Gotha WD.11 I ordered (which came out nicely).

  8. #8

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    Re the Roland DI / DII
    in the main were almost identical."
    Thanks Peter, that solves that problem - very helpful

    Re the RAF RE7
    I've got an RE7 available too: http://shpws.me/Polq. I hadn't moved that over to Sculpteo, though -- let me know if you want to experiment and I will make that available there.
    Yes please Daryl, I would appreciate that. Let me know when you have done so and I shall order some. Thanks.
    Re your Shapeways RE7 - yes, sorry about that - the first time I searched (1/144 RAF RE7) I didn't scroll down past the other models, RAF BE2cs, RAF FE2bs RAF SE5s etc and yours was not on the top line. Not until the third search did it appear at the top, so perhaps the appearence of models is random.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    Friedrichshafen G.III: https://www.sculpteo.com/en/print/fdhg3-144-1/m8ZnyAaN
    Curtiss H-12: https://www.sculpteo.com/en/gallery/...2-144/mXmLXT9M

    As for the smaller ones, let's see how the Sculpteo experience goes before I move over some smaller models (where the material advantages do not matter as much). So far the Sculpteo experience is confined to the Gotha WD.11 I ordered (which came out nicely).
    Great, I'll try to order those and let you know how it goes....and post pictures once I get them.

    Order is in - as easy as shapeways if you have a link to the design.
    Last edited by ShadowDragon; 03-31-2019 at 16:45.

  10. #10

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    The prices seemed reasonable.

    The Curtiss H-12 is $36.44 and the Friedrichshafen $27.69.

    Shapeways prices are for white WSF $27.75 and $21.77
    ...for grey prof plastic $55.22 and $44.77

    So the sculpteo prices are closer to the white WSF than the professional plastic.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    The prices seemed reasonable.

    The Curtiss H-12 is $36.44 and the Friedrichshafen $27.69.

    Shapeways prices are for white WSF $27.75 and $21.77
    ...for grey prof plastic $55.22 and $44.77

    So the sculpteo prices are closer to the white WSF than the professional plastic.
    Yes, Sculpteo actually prices the MJF (Professional Plastic) cheaper than their Versatile Plastic equivalent! Hopefully Shapeways will come to their senses on that material some day. They basically said, "let's set it at double the WSF price and see how many we sell" rather than doing any analysis of the material's costs and overhead.

    RAF RE7 in this material: https://www.sculpteo.com/en/print/rafre7-144/5DjWvV8D

    Thanks for experimenting with a new supplier! I hope your prints come out as well as did my test print.

  12. #12

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    Price for 2 gothas incurred $50 postage to Australia. Despite the doubling of model cost by Shapeways, cost with postage works out cheaper if ordering more than 1 model. Apparently orders to Australia have to go express postage at an additional cost of $30.

  13. #13

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    OK 3 x RE7s ordered in MJF from Sculpteo. Thanks Daryl, yes the process was simple with the link. Cost including tax and delivery works out at around the Shapeways professional plastic price without delivery etc added. Not cheap but I'm hoping the quality will prove to be worth it Watch this space.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    OK 3 x RE7s ordered in MJF from Sculpteo. Thanks Daryl, yes the process was simple with the link. Cost including tax and delivery works out at around the Shapeways professional plastic price without delivery etc added. Not cheap but I'm hoping the quality will prove to be worth it Watch this space.
    That's interesting, Mike. The sculpteo prices for the Friedrichshafen and the Curtis H-12 are just 30% more than the WSF Shapeways prices, while it's 80% for the RE7. It may be that sculpteo has a higher fixed or base price for prints so that price differential is higher for smaller models. Watch this space indeed.

    FYI - express shipping was $35 for my 2 models. Shapeway charged me $12 for 2 balloons.

  15. #15

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    Got a message from sculpteo that the model(s) “...has elements that may be too thin to be printed accurately. At this point you have two options to print the part:
    1. you can accept the risk that the part may not come out exactly how you wanted it to and we'll printed the file as is.
    2. You can make some design changes to make the model printable, and then send us the updated file.”

    I told them to go ahead. I will take the risk.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    Got a message from sculpteo that the model(s) “...has elements that may be too thin to be printed accurately. At this point you have two options to print the part:
    1. you can accept the risk that the part may not come out exactly how you wanted it to and we'll printed the file as is.
    2. You can make some design changes to make the model printable, and then send us the updated file.”

    I told them to go ahead. I will take the risk.
    Interesting -- they had no such worries with the WD.11. Admittedly, their design guidelines are harder to find, because they have hundreds of different materials and options. (Shapeways likes to occasionally complain that the models have detail too fine to be seen when printed. Yeah, all my pilots have noses, not because you can see the nose when printed, but the human model I started with had one, and it's a pain to remove!)

    A bit off topic, but on the LFG Roland D.I... there is some more information in Windsock Datafile 47: the most visible difference between the D.I and D.II would be the big ear radiators on the fuselage sides of the D.I. (The D.II moved it to the upper wing.) Eighty D.Is were built, spread between LFG and Pfalz, and the most at the front was twelve in Feb 1917. By June they had all been sent to flying schools as fighter trainers. (One would think a plane with limited forward visibility would make a poor trainer, but I'm sure better planes were more needed at the front.)

  17. #17

  18. #18

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    Some more accurate price info on my order, from Sculpteo, for three RAF RE7s. The per model price works out at £18.89 for the printing + £3.83 for shipping + £4.54 tax. A total of £27.26 at an exchange rate of approx 1.13Euros. That compares with the Shapeways grey or black professional plastic, which is £25.23 +shipping, but I don't recall them adding on tax, so perhaps that is built in. Also the price is given in sterling so may vary with the exchange rate?

    Normally I would buy, from Shapeways, the WNVP models at £12.08 each, excluding shipping. At £18.89 per model Sculpteo looks attractive for the quality, but the shipping and tax makes an enormous difference, especially the latter. An experiment for me - I shall have to think hard before spending that much on models again.
    Last edited by mikeemagnus; 04-02-2019 at 11:43.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Some more accurate price info on my order, from Sculpteo, for three RAF RE8s. The per model price works out at £18.89 for the printing + £3.83 for shipping + £4.54 tax. A total of £27.26 at an exchange rate of approx 1.13Euros. That compares with the Shapeways grey or black professional plastic, which is £25.23 +shipping, but I don't recall them adding on tax, so perhaps that is built in. Also the price is given in sterling so may vary with the exchange rate?

    Normally I would buy, from Shapeways, the WNVP models at £12.08 each, excluding shipping. At £18.89 per model Sculpteo looks attractive for the quality, but the shipping and tax makes an enormous difference, especially the latter. An experiment for me - I shall have to think hard before spending that much on models again.
    As we say in Canada, "you were hosed". I can't figure out why the RE7 price was so much higher than the Friedrichshafen and Curtiss.

    FYI - Shapeways shipping was much cheaper, but I had to pay a hefty price at Customs (including a handling fee that exceeded the taxes) for the Shapeways package.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowDragon View Post
    As we say in Canada, "you were hosed". I can't figure out why the RE7 price was so much higher than the Friedrichshafen and Curtiss.

    FYI - Shapeways shipping was much cheaper, but I had to pay a hefty price at Customs (including a handling fee that exceeded the taxes) for the Shapeways package.
    This is harder than comparing prices between airlines! ("You want luggage? Extra fee. How about a chair to sit in? Bathroom privileges? Those are extra.")

  21. #21

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    ("You want luggage? Extra fee. How about a chair to sit in? Bathroom privileges? Those are extra.")

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    This is harder than comparing prices between airlines! ("You want luggage? Extra fee. How about a chair to sit in? Bathroom privileges? Those are extra.")
    How well I know that! When I visit my sister in May, I'm mailing spare clothing, as it's cheaper than a check on bag!
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    This is harder than comparing prices between airlines! ("You want luggage? Extra fee. How about a chair to sit in? Bathroom privileges? Those are extra.")
    Bob Newhart - "The Grace L. Ferguson Airline and Storm Door Company" monologue
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  24. #24

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    I had a similar message to Paul -
    It has come to our attention that the following item(s) can not be printed due to an issue with your 3D file(s):
    1:144 R.A.F. R.E.7 Reason: There are cantilevered areas on your object that could deform or break during the printing or delivery process.
    So I've asked if they'll print just the one, for me to inspect. If all goes well with that I'll add the others.

  25. #25

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    Interesting that they haven't yet contacted me about the models. Again, that probably reflects that they do 99% of their business selling directly to the designer, rather than a "marketplace model".

    I'll have to order copies of some of my new larger models (A.E.G. G.V and Short 184) and see if they have similar concerns. I saw no signs of stress or deformation on the Gotha WD.11.

  26. #26

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    Interesting that the online programs they have to evaluate strength/fragility showed up all green for the models. Case of CYA I think. If you accept risk there’s no returns to worry about.

  27. #27

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    Win, lose or draw at your end (the designers) I can only say thanks for crawling thru the weeds and bushes so we non-designers have access to the otherwise unobtainable rare models that will otherwise never see light of day from ARES. Many kudos!

  28. #28

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    Sculpteo Friederichshafen G.III and Curtis H.12 just arrived. Looks good

    Click image for larger version. 

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  29. #29

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    Nice! Paul, what do you think of the material so far? I find it much stiffer than WSF and very strong, with no sign of fragility like FUD.

    What I can't tell you is how it looks when painted and how much filling it needs, since none of my test prints have been painted.

  30. #30

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    Here's the RE7 - It came out just fine, despite the warnings. So the other two are on the way. Looks good, feels good and I shall start painting just as soon as the next batch of trench mats is done.

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    Nice one Daryl

  31. #31

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    Thanks Mike! Of course they look grainier than they feel because the material surface is a mix of dark and light¹. If the weather in my corner of the world ever decides to stay on the warm side for a few consecutive days, I'll try to get one of my test prints primed.

    ¹ I think the material starts black, but as the printing process heats it up and sprays a cooling agent on the edges, it turns grey/white. So you end up with a mottled grey/black look.

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    Nice! Paul, what do you think of the material so far? I find it much stiffer than WSF and very strong, with no sign of fragility like FUD.

    What I can't tell you is how it looks when painted and how much filling it needs, since none of my test prints have been painted.
    They look really good, Daryl....good job. The only issue I could find on closer examination was the machine gun barrels at the front of the Curtis either broke off or never printed. That's not a problem to replace the barrels and I might replace the crew with Peter Pig crew.

    The material is stiffer than WSF. Strength seems okay but I haven't dropped on the floor to test. It will need some filling but not as much as WSF.

  33. #33

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    Trials with treating the surface....I've used 2 coats of Golden Soft Gel diluted 2:1 with water - brushed on. The 2 patches of gesso are one between the gel layers and one on top. I've painted a bit of white and applied a black wash so that one can more easily see the surface.

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  34. #34

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    To round off - these were the finished articles. Thanks Daryl - Like them lots. In action during Skafloc's Mission 8 of the OTT DYM campaign.

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    They painted up really easily and I didn't have to treat them at all with any PVA etc.



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