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Thread: Tormented Soul/Nimble Pilot Interaction

  1. #1

    Default Tormented Soul/Nimble Pilot Interaction

    Is the Flaw Tormented Soul (cancel a talent once use is declared)able to interfere with Nimble Pilot(Max G’s at 5)?

    If so would you just treat a 5G maneuver as illegal?

  2. #2

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    Tormented Soul should be able to cancel the use of the talent. Thing is, Nimble Pilot states that "You can PLAN cards..." so I would think that the use of Tormented Soul would have to occur in the planning phase. This would then require the player to plan cards within the normal 4 G-value limit.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorAlanYoung View Post
    Is the Flaw Tormented Soul (cancel a talent once use is declared)able to interfere with Nimble Pilot(Max G’s at 5)?

    If so would you just treat a 5G maneuver as illegal?
    Quote Originally Posted by ca1701 View Post
    Tormented Soul should be able to cancel the use of the talent. Thing is, Nimble Pilot states that "You can PLAN cards..." so I would think that the use of Tormented Soul would have to occur in the planning phase. This would then require the player to plan cards within the normal 4 G-value limit.
    Difficult call. One has to declare they are using a Talent, and the opponent then rolls to block it, if desired. Tormented Soul has a limited amount of uses, so it can run out, and therefore not affect the rest of the game. If the player doesn't state they are using the Talent, the opponent can't roll to prevent its use. I would think that Nimble Pilot wouldn't be affected by Tormented Soul.

    Unless, in a particular situation, an opponent predicts the use in a planning step, and declares that he wants to prevent that use. It would be up to the player to say it wouldn't be necessary, if he wasn't planning to use it. Then, no roll is made, and no Use Token is put on the Tormented Soul. Honesty would be required.

    And it wouldn't be good if a 5G maneuver suddenly appeared in that turn, with the player having declared he wasn't using Nimble Pilot.

    PS: Digging through the current Talents, Daredevil is another Planning Step card that isn't declared when used.

    After a bit more looking, Exceptional Pilot is another that would be interesting. If you didn't roll to block that skill, then the use of one of the following additional maneuvering talents could be rolled against. If you did block it, then the player would be forced to choose which of the additional Talents they would be using, and couldn't use both.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 01-19-2019 at 12:23.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  4. #4

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    Tortured Soul reads:”Activated after you declare the use of a talent.If activated, the talent is not used (do not place a use counter on the talent).”

    Nimble Pilot reads:”You can plan cards with a total G-value of 5 or less, instead of 4.”


    Once per round opponents can attempt to activate a flaw when the prerequisites arise. In this case, as soon as you declare that you are using your talent your opponent would roll to activate.
    Nimble Pilot doesn’t say when you should activate it (most do say when they can be activated), so I’d say it’s up to you. You could attempt to activate Nimble Pilot in the planning Phase. That way you will know if you can do 5 or 4 Gs ahead of time so as not to do an illegal maneuver. Perhaps you wanted to wait until you’re revealing your maneuver cards so as not to give things away, but I f you do wait until reveal to activate and Tortured Soul prevents Nimble Pilot from activating your 5G maneuver does become an illegal move. So it’s a risk if you wait, but doesn’t give away what you want to do ahead of time.

    At least that’s how I read it.

  5. #5

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    I would agree with BronzeSparrow's interpretation.

  6. #6

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    I’ve been playing it as the opponent gets a chance to shut it down in each planning phase if they want to. If they don’t speak up during planning they miss their window.

  7. #7

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    I've just had a look at these two cards...the way I would play this is that the Nimble Pilot card must be declared activated during the planning phase, enabling the player to then plan for a G value of 5...the opponent then decides if they want to attempt to activate the Tormented Soul flaw, or not.

  8. #8

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    If I were the player with Tormented Soul, and I had any choice, I would attempt to activate it as many times, as soon as possible, early in the game. That would exhaust the uses, and I would then forget about it.

    I expect that was not the intent of Tormented Soul. Tormented Soul is there to give the opponent the possibility of messing up your actions. However, planning is secret, and not announced, even if it requires a talent, as that would remove a significant part of the concealed movement planning. So, Nimble Pilot and Daredevil should not be announced. It is up to the opponent to anticipate the use, and attempt to block it, if possible.

    If the plan is subsequently revealed, without the opponent anticipating the use, it is too late for the opponent to attempt Tormented Soul. The talent has already been used, and therefore the 'illegal move' issue doesn't arise.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    I've just had a look at these two cards...the way I would play this is that the Nimble Pilot card must be declared activated during the planning phase, enabling the player to then plan for a G value of 5...the opponent then decides if they want to attempt to activate the Tormented Soul flaw, or not.
    Planning is secret, and shouldn't be announced, no matter that a talent is used, or not. Note that one of the reviewers stated that he would never plan a maneuver without using two cards, ever. He would ALWAYS use the 'Blank', if not using two cards. That way, the opponent will never be able to anticipate any short maneuver. This falls exactly into the game design of secret planning, and outmaneuvering/outbluffing your opponent.

    I would never expect an opponent to tell me he is using certain cards in a turn without Tormented Soul, so I wouldn't expect it if the talent was there.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Planning is secret, and shouldn't be announced, no matter that a talent is used, or not. Note that one of the reviewers stated that he would never plan a maneuver without using two cards, ever. He would ALWAYS use the 'Blank', if not using two cards. That way, the opponent will never be able to anticipate any short maneuver. This falls exactly into the game design of secret planning, and outmaneuvering/outbluffing your opponent.

    I would never expect an opponent to tell me he is using certain cards in a turn without Tormented Soul, so I wouldn't expect it if the talent was there.
    Understood mate, and that is a good way to go I reckon!

    The way I was thinking it would play out, is that the player using the Nimble Pilot Talent would declare he is using the Talent, not exactly what card or cards he was using (and he could even be bluffing, trying to make his opponent believe he was planning a high G manoeuvre, when in fact he was planning a low G manoeuvre). I wasn't suggesting that he should tell his opponent what card or cards he is playing (like you have to do when being Tailed, or using the Hunter Talent), just that he is using the Talent, so that his opponent then had the opportunity to activate the Tormented Soul Flaw, it just seemed to me to be the less complicated way to resolve the two cards fairly.



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