Results 1 to 38 of 38

Thread: How to get started in modeling WWI planes

  1. #1

    Arrow How to get started in modeling WWI planes

    After all the discussions recently about reprint delays or lack of reprints I thought it may be time to explore painting up my own. Iím looking at early planes such as the E.III. (Dh2 and Halberstadt as well. I have the Morane)

    After looking at Fleabay prices doing my own models seems the way to go.

    From research here on the site it looks like place to go is Shapeways and pick your preferred manufacturer. First question; fine detail or professional plastic?

    Decals should be easy. Set of simple crosses and good to go.

    A base seems simple enough, Aerodrome accessories flight base with some scavenged pegs.

    Now the biggie, cards. The plane card should be a non issue with the stats printed in the Aerodrome base. The Immelmann booster is next to impossible to find so maneuver cards are a problem. Maybe use the MATS cards here on site? Print out three then write down which is being used for each turn? A real pain in the butt but I donít see anoher way. Suggestions?

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    After all the discussions recently about reprint delays or lack of reprints I thought it may be time to explore painting up my own. I’m looking at early planes such as the E.III. (Dh2 and Halberstadt as well. I have the Morane)

    After looking at Fleabay prices doing my own models seems the way to go.

    From research here on the site it looks like place to go is Shapeways and pick your preferred manufacturer. First question; fine detail or professional plastic?

    Decals should be easy. Set of simple crosses and good to go.

    A base seems simple enough, Aerodrome accessories flight base with some scavenged pegs.

    Now the biggie, cards. The plane card should be a non issue with the stats printed in the Aerodrome base. The Immelmann booster is next to impossible to find so maneuver cards are a problem. Maybe use the MATS cards here on site? Print out three then write down which is being used for each turn? A real pain in the butt but I don’t see anoher way. Suggestions?


    make copies of your existing decks. for decks you dont have ask drome members.

  3. #3

    Default

    Joe, welcome to the world of modeling. I may be your huckleberry. I have skads of cards since the beginning which are still wrapped and multiples of all the card packets published. If you would make me list I will do some digging, always happy to support a good "habit" : )

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks David. One each of the Fokker EIII, Halberstadt DIII and Airco DH2. Two would be awesome if you have the spares. Let me know how much and I’ll send you a check and rep!

  5. #5

    Default

    So, after looking at some of the Shapeways stuff I’m curious which type of plastic to order to keep from getting the “fuzzy” look of the cheapest material. Suggestions?

    Or, should I try to find the Valom stuff first if available?

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    So, after looking at some of the Shapeways stuff Iím curious which type of plastic to order to keep from getting the ďfuzzyĒ look of the cheapest material. Suggestions?

    Or, should I try to find the Valom stuff first if available?
    • Shapeways Versatile Plastic (nee WSF) needs some treatment to smooth out the fuzziness. You can find a stickied thread on the subject in the Shapeways sub-forum.
    • Shapeways Fine Detail Plastic (nee FUD) has much better surfaces qualities, but it's more expensive and fairly fragile. They're quite usable but won't stand up to being dropped or tipped over from height. Some folks have found problems with the material seeing "frosting" over time.
    • Shapeways Professional Plastic (nee HP) is nice and robust, not as pretty as Fine Detail but better than Versatile. But right now Shapeways has it priced way too high (IMHO). They've promised to look into the pricing.
    • Valom kits look great but take some serious modeling skills to put together.

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks Daryl. Does the FUD “frost” even after being primed and painted?

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Thanks Daryl. Does the FUD “frost” even after being primed and painted?
    Different people have seen different experiences. There's a very long thread on it on the Shapeways website.

    In general, no one knows (or no one is saying) how often it occurs and whether there is any correlation to cleaning, painting, and storage methods; there's just no solid data from which we can draw conclusions, e.g. "prime with this" or "clean with this".

    Maybe someone with a small collection of Detailed Plastic (FUD) models can pitch in here? I have a bunch, but they're almost all unpainted.

  9. #9

    Default

    My experience with Shapeways plastics is now eclipsed with the new names and formulas. My Polished FUD models have become brittle and changed colors over time. Once painted only the brittle is significant. The bulk of my 300 odd collection are WSF, which is more challenging to finish quickly. My process is to begin with a well cleaned print. Many still have loose matrix packed into crevises and vent holes. A good wash in hot water and a bit of attention with a tooth brush then a good drying time, easy here in the AZ. I then give top and bottoms 3 or 4 wet coats of clear gloss spray acrylic with a good sanding between coats with an emery board. This sanding and repeated coats of gloss clear build up to a nice base surface. Most of the grain looks are eliminated here. A good 3 days of curing and they are ready to paint with a good water based acrylic.

  10. #10

    Default

    Thanks David. Starting to question the 3d print route.

    Has anyone dealt with Red Eagle? They even have a nice balloon set on their site.
    Last edited by BwanaJoe; 12-07-2018 at 06:51.

  11. #11

    Default

    The Red Eagle minis are metal, VERY heavy (won't tolerate banking on a gimbal unless the ball is HUGE), and come covered in flash, but a careful clean-up before painting and assembly produces a good model.
    Struts are FAR too thin and weak, and need to be replaced (I used paperclips, cut to length). This will get the model sturdy enough for handling during a game, but if you drop it, it's weight ensures spectacular destruction when the ground rushes up to meet it!

    I have seen the Red Eagle balloons in use, and they look great! Haven't purchased any, though.

  12. #12

    Default

    Thanks Tim. I’m looking at the EIII for the most part so I have something to fly against the Type N for early war stuff.

  13. #13

    Default

    Hi Joe,

    I don't want this to come off as self-serving because I am a Shapeways designer, but I want to say...

    The 3d printed "Versatile Plastic" (WSF) planes can come out looking excellent (you can see several good examples in the Painting Showcase or in various designer's Shapeways catalogs). But they do need a bit of preparation. Keep in mind that the camera accentuates the fuzzy-effect and that they look much more smooth on the game table. For an outstanding example, see Peter's recent work at https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ainting-thread.

    I must admit that most of us would be very challenged to achieve paint jobs that good. :-)

    If you're looking for model sources, the https://linen.miraheze.org WIKI lists sources for each WWI 1:144 plane type -- plastic, 3dprinted, and metal -- from all the model makers I know. (If you spot one that is missing, please let me know. Or edit the page yourself.)

  14. #14

    Default

    No problem Daryl I didn’t think that. I’m not sure, after reading how to prep WSF, that I want to go through that amount of work to get a smooth finish while keeping the details. That was why I was thinking of either getting FUD models or resin/metal.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    No problem Daryl I didn’t think that. I’m not sure, after reading how to prep WSF, that I want to go through that amount of work to get a smooth finish while keeping the details. That was why I was thinking of either getting FUD models or resin/metal.
    Hi Joe Like you I'm looking for some early wars planes for the new OTT campaign, I bought 2 of each FE2b, Fokker E111 and Arco DH2, I've just started - today sanding and this evening - painting a mix of PVA and water over them, it dry's quite quickly and I did 2 coats, waited and a light sanding and then another coat. If you are interested I could take some photos and post them here so you can see how I go on and you can decide if it's worth the effort.
    I have made 10 valom kits over the last 6 months and I looked at their E111 and the undercarriage looks a nightmare although the rest of the kit looks easy so I went shapeways.
    Good luck which ever way you go.

  16. #16

    Default

    Don’t go out of your way John but if you take shots anyway I’d love to see them. Thanks.

  17. #17

    Default

    I'm about to embark on some Early War planes over the next month or so - aiming for Valom, Shapeways and Red Eagle Fokker E.IIIs, plus some other bits.

    I'll try to compare the various types if you like.

    Meantime, these are my two Shapeways Fokker E.IVs - they turned out pretty well

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fokker E (1).jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	192.5 KB 
ID:	259059

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fokker E (8).jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	185.4 KB 
ID:	259060

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fokker E (16).jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	164.5 KB 
ID:	259061

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Thanks David. Starting to question the 3d print route.

    Has anyone dealt with Red Eagle? They even have a nice balloon set on their site.
    AIM makes a very nice German sausage balloon for $18. It is resin so not heave at all.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    No problem Daryl I didn’t think that. I’m not sure, after reading how to prep WSF, that I want to go through that amount of work to get a smooth finish while keeping the details. That was why I was thinking of either getting FUD models or resin/metal.
    I swear by Versatile Plastic (WSF). I soured on FUD because of it's brittle nature. Versatile Plastic takes a little effort in prep. Some models are much easier than others as the surface varies. I've had some that I give it one spray coat of primer and its ready to go. Others take 3, 4 or more coats. Few have needed some sanding but it is rare for me to have done that.

  20. #20

    Default

    Very nicely done I wish I could paint so small.

  21. #21

    Default

    Here are some examples of the WSF stuff after sanding, painting, dusting, and washing.



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_5677.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	148.8 KB 
ID:	259063Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_5681.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	148.1 KB 
ID:	259064Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_5825.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	157.9 KB 
ID:	259065Click image for larger version. 

Name:	100_5619.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	154.5 KB 
ID:	259067
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Vick FB5 Gunbus.jpg  

  22. #22

    Default

    Nice jobs on the WSF stuff guys. Given me something to think about.

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    AIM makes a very nice German sausage balloon for $18. It is resin so not heave at all.
    Thanks Peter. Do you have one? If so, how did you mount it?

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Thanks Peter. Do you have one? If so, how did you mount it?
    I have one but sadly have not yet painted it. Matt (matt56) has a superb one.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0171.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	128.0 KB 
ID:	259068

    Looks like he attached a bomber peg to the bottom. On 2 foam balloons I have scratch made I put a large screw into the bottom that works with my magnetic flight stands.

  25. #25

    Default

    Wow nice. Guess I will have to find some clear plexi rods. Those bomber stands are NLA I believe.

  26. #26

    Default

    The cheat's way of smoothing the rough surface of WSF : use a decal that covers most of the surface. Essential if doing Austrian Hex or Sworl, or German lozenge.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2015-04-02 13.42.43.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	129.1 KB 
ID:	259069

    The serious aero historian will go to great lengths to make a model that is the best guess we have for historical accuracy, only treating publshed profiles as secondary sources, and trying to follow primary sources where possible. Note the left wing aileron on this Belgian Nieuport 11 has been replaced, so doesn't quite match the rest of the top wing, the left rondel being cropped. The prep on the was a single coat of 3:1 diluted PVA glue before painting CDL as the basecoat then the Verdun Autumn cammo on top using artists acryllics.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2015-05-26 13.30.54.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	48.6 KB 
ID:	259070


    Now if you're using the models for gaming, it's good enough so they don't look out of place compared to Ares/Nexus models. Here are two WSF models next to two Ares ones. Not a ha'peth of difference, as they say in the classics.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2015-07-19 12.32.19.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	170.7 KB 
ID:	259071

    A comparison of yet another Fokker E.IV. 2 coats dilute PVA, then CDL base, then cammo.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2016-11-22 13.56.55.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	147.2 KB 
ID:	259073


    This one took 3 coats of PVA before painting. It really needs a satin varnish afterwards as it looks *too* smooth and glossy.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FB_IMG_1503979874487.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	143.7 KB 
ID:	259074

  27. #27

    Default

    Zoe's pics bring up another good point I had forgotten. The plane cards from the early sets give you top down painting guides also.

  28. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    Zoe's pics bring up another good point I had forgotten. The plane cards from the early sets give you top down painting guides also.
    Sadly the Immelmann booster is hard to find for anything approximating sane money. If I grab a EIII it is getting painted up (ok, decaled) in Royal Bavarian colors anyway!

  29. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Sadly the Immelmann booster is hard to find for anything approximating sane money. If I grab a EIII it is getting painted up (ok, decaled) in Royal Bavarian colors anyway!
    I have a spare Immelmann booster. I see one on ebay, $47.92! To me thats absurd. PM me and we can work something out.

  30. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I have a spare Immelmann booster. I see one on ebay, $47.92! To me thats absurd. PM me and we can work something out.
    I have a spare "Immelmann" booster too, and I can also provide you with a Turkish "Buddecke" E.III if you want one...............

  31. #31

    Default

    You guys are awesome!

    Questions on the booster. How many maneuver decks are in them? Someone here said the decks have changed between WOW and WOG. If so, the whole deck or just a few cards?

  32. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Questions on the booster. How many maneuver decks are in them? Someone here said the decks have changed between WOW and WOG. If so, the whole deck or just a few cards?
    1 x 'G' deck, 2 x 'P' decks. plus 18 plane cards

    The 'G' deck is ideal for the Fe2b and Fe2d
    The 'P' decks are good for DH2 and Halberstadt D.II and D.III models

  33. #33

    Default

    Immelmann booster has 3 full maneuver decks and 18 airplane cards. 1 G and 2 P decks. Plane cards cover Fokker A.III/E.III, Halberstadt D.III, Fokker E.IV, Morane-Saulnier N and AIRCO DH.2.

    Ah Tim, you type much faster than my one finger pecking!

  34. #34

    Default

    Thanks. Which deck covers the EIII?

  35. #35

    Default

    The Booster has the Fokker E.III and the Morane-Saulnier N 'Bullet' on the 'P' deck - this has now been changed to the 'T' deck, which is not available in any Booster pack.
    The Booster has the Halberstadt D.III and the Airco DH2 on the 'G' deck, which has now been changed to the 'P' deck.
    Last edited by Flying Helmut; 12-08-2018 at 14:17.

  36. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post

    Ah Tim, you type much faster than my one finger pecking!
    It's the Brandy!

    I might just be a bit under the influence right now..............................(hic!!!)

  37. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    The cheat's way of smoothing the rough surface of WSF : use a decal that covers most of the surface. Essential if doing Austrian Hex or Sworl, or German lozenge.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pfalz DXII - Jasta 32b (30).jpg 
Views:	11 
Size:	167.4 KB 
ID:	259084

    Full decal on the wing, painted fuselage & tail
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Pfalz DXII - Jasta 32b (32).jpg  
    Last edited by Flying Helmut; 12-08-2018 at 14:19.

  38. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    The Booster has the Fokker E.III ad the Morane-Saulnier Bullet on the 'P' deck - this has now been changed to the 'T' deck, which is not available in any Booster pack
    The Booster has the Halberstadt D.III and the Airco DH2 on the 'G' deck, which has now been changed to the 'P' deck.
    Awesome. I have two of the Moranes. I can copy those. Thanks.



Similar Missions

  1. Thinking about modeling
    By skyking20 in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-23-2017, 05:36
  2. Non-WG Modeling Question
    By csadn in forum Officer's Club
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-09-2016, 16:02
  3. My Recent Modeling efforts (Skytrex Balloons and Gotha)
    By afilter in forum Metal and Resin Models
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-02-2012, 09:29
  4. Next Modeling Challenge?
    By skystalker in forum Hobby Room
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 05-11-2012, 20:57
  5. 3D Modeling!
    By richard m schwab in forum Shapeways Models
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-12-2011, 16:08

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •