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Thread: OTT Daring Young Men Campaign 1916

  1. #151

    Skafloc's Avatar Northern Command Squadron Leader.
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    I will be posting scenario 1 during the week between Christmas Day and New Years day.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  2. #152

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I will be posting scenario 1 during the week between Christmas Day and New Years day.

    Neil
    Will look forward to seeing the details Neil although I will be away in Queensland until 4th January.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  3. #153

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    Speedy Neil. I won't get the table back till 2019


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    I will be posting scenario 1 during the week between Christmas Day and New Years day.

    Neil
    Thanks for the heads up Neil, I had better wrap up some gaming loose ends before NYE!

  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Given this campaign is set in early 1916 perhaps we should consider resetting the Medals and Awards to reflect the number of victories required in those early days of 1916. For example the Blue Max was up until mid 1916 awarded for just eight victories compared to the 16 required in early 1917 and the 20-25 in 1918. For the Germans also there were no wound badges until March 1918, and the Military Merit Cross was not awarded until October 1916, so there are a few less awards Dave has to worry about tracking!

    Proposed modified table for the Imperial German Air Service below:

    KILLS/2 SEATER MISSIONS RANKS AWARDS
    1/1 All Flugzeugführerabzeichen (Pilots Badge - PB) or Beobachterabzeichen (Observers Badge - OB)
    2/3 All Eisernes Kreuz II.Klasse
    4/6 All Eisernes Kreuz I.Klasse
    5/8 Officers only Ritterkreuz mit Schwertern des Hausordens von Hohenzollern
    8/12 Enlisted only Militär-St.-Heinrichs-Medaille
    8/12 Officers only Ritterkreuz des Militär-St. Heinrichs-Ordens
    10/15 Officers only Orden Pour le Merite

    If this is acceptable I can put something similar together for the RFC and the Aéronautique Militaire.
    It would be acceptable in English with the German/French in brackets, & I reserve the right to mess with the numbers !
    Could do with something for French, Brits are more straight forward, may be more down to the numbers, PM me with your thoughts.

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    It would be acceptable in English with the German/French in brackets, & I reserve the right to mess with the numbers !
    Could do with something for French, Brits are more straight forward, may be more down to the numbers, PM me with your thoughts.
    I have updated the original post with English names for the respective decorations.

    Regarding numbers of course Dave, it is your show. With only twelve missions and likely less aircraft per mission given the early war flavour, I would hazard a guess it will be extremely difficult to amass the ten kills required for the top awards.

  7. #157

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    Carl's modifications to the award system make a lot of sense to me.

  8. #158

    Skafloc's Avatar Northern Command Squadron Leader.
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    If we play each 3 months going onwards, ie 2020 plus, then over time pilots could accrue the top awards.

    Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    I have updated the original post with English names for the respective decorations.

    Regarding numbers of course Dave, it is your show. With only twelve missions and likely less aircraft per mission given the early war flavour, I would hazard a guess it will be extremely difficult to amass the ten kills required for the top awards.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  9. #159

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    The plan is to play short but intense campaigns then change it out to another period in the war but we'll see how it goes.

    "He is wise who watches"

  10. #160

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    I will be posting scenario 1 during the week between Christmas Day and New Years day.
    Great neil - looking forward to it. Thanks for the heads up

  11. #161

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    Will be watching for the post but will be visiting grandchildren in Canada until the 30th.
    Hope I have the aircraft required for the first outing.

  12. #162

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    No rush chaps, start day is January 1st.
    Probably still signing chaps in until then at this rate, might even get Wingco's roster by then....

    "He is wise who watches"

  13. #163

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    I have a question for you Colonel Flash - if I may Reference the OTT DYM rule thread and the link to "Flash Moves Too" and the "Simple Altitude House Rules". If I remember correctly, which these days is for about the same time as a Hampster, you write the Immelman goes up or down by by three pegs. A dive card, barring exceptions, takes an aircraft down 4 pegs. So, the question is, am I right in thinking that with the "Half Cuban 8: Straight; Immelmann (upward); Dive, the overall effect is just one peg down, assuming the straight isn't used for a peg change in either direction?

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    ...If I remember correctly,... you write the Immelman goes up or down by by three pegs. A dive card, barring exceptions, takes an aircraft down 4 pegs. So, the question is, am I right in thinking that with the "Half Cuban 8: Straight; Immelmann (upward); Dive, the overall effect is just one peg down, assuming the straight isn't used for a peg change in either direction?
    Sounds about right Mike but don't feel tied to it - since this was written the 'Height Control' ace skill has been introduced and most people think that should apply to everyone anyway so if you want to pull out at 3 down & finish where you started that's fine by me, that's what I've been doing. I amended it to up to 4 pegs a while ago, think a dive should be 3 minimum.
    Last edited by flash; 12-19-2018 at 07:24.

    "He is wise who watches"

  15. #165

  16. #166

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    Ok gents. I have (soon) two Type Ns and two EIIIs. I also (thanks Flying Helmut) an Immelmann booster pack. So I'd love to try my hand at a campaign. Couple of questions; 1) do I have enough early stuff between the models and the pack to be able to participate, 2) if so, where/what rules are being used for the campaign system? IIRC the OTT stuff was a tad scattered when I was hunting for info a year ago. Or, I was looking in the wrong spot. Either way...

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Found these: OTT Daring Young Men (DYM) Campaign Rules. Holy Cow is there a lot of paperwork!
    Last edited by BwanaJoe; 12-25-2018 at 16:58.

  17. #167

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    Tell me about it !
    You may struggle with just 4 scout planes Joe, you'll need two-seaters for each side, an Albatros C.III would fit the bill for the Germans, for the Brits you'll need a Shapeways model or two of a BE2c or similar. If you read through this thread you'll find that David (Clipper) has generously offered to lend models from his collection and you'll also see what you need to PM me regarding joining in, I will update the rules sticky with this info too.

    "He is wise who watches"

  18. #168

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    After I found those stickies with the plane list I figured I’d be out of luck since I don’t have any of the other planes. I’ll wait for next one; I should have enough late war stuff to be able to participate.

  19. #169

    Skafloc's Avatar Northern Command Squadron Leader.
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    With what you have you could get by with 1 2-seater per side. Have a look at scenario 1 OTTDYM and adjust to suit what you have.

    Neil

    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    After I found those stickies with the plane list I figured I’d be out of luck since I don’t have any of the other planes. I’ll wait for next one; I should have enough late war stuff to be able to participate.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  20. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    After I found those stickies with the plane list I figured I’d be out of luck since I don’t have any of the other planes. I’ll wait for next one; I should have enough late war stuff to be able to participate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    With what you have you could get by with 1 2-seater per side. Have a look at scenario 1 OTTDYM and adjust to suit what you have.

    Neil
    You can always substitute one plane in and use the stats of the plane used in the mission. If you have an RE8, you could fly it as a BE2C. If you have a Rumpler C.IV it could stand in for a Rumpler C.I. I did this in my first solo campaign.

  21. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Ok gents. I have (soon) two Type Ns and two EIIIs. I also (thanks Flying Helmut) an Immelmann booster pack. So I'd love to try my hand at a campaign. Couple of questions; 1) do I have enough early stuff between the models and the pack to be able to participate, 2) if so, where/what rules are being used for the campaign system? IIRC the OTT stuff was a tad scattered when I was hunting for info a year ago. Or, I was looking in the wrong spot. Either way...

    Thanks.

    EDIT: Found these: OTT Daring Young Men (DYM) Campaign Rules. Holy Cow is there a lot of paperwork!
    Hi Joe - I'm a newcomer to OTT, played 5 games at the end of the last campaign. I didn't always have the right planes and so I fiddled with the scenario's a bit or substituted planes but I was able to make a reasonable fist at it. The two big things
    1) everyone was supportive of my fumbling efforts, no one questioned the fact that I didn't have the correct planes for each individual scenario.
    2) I had a really good time playing scenario's that were challenging not only in game terms but personally because I'm still pretty much a WofW novice, still learning the rules and solo play as well.

    I would suggest you have a crack at it, as Peter and Dave said, you will probably get away with one 2 seater per side, Albatros C111 are still available and I intend to use Shapeways FE2b's as both scouts and observation planes but if pushed will sub RE8's for BE2C's, similarly I will use French Morane Saulnier N's on loan to the British if I have to.
    I don't have a gaming group close enough to have regular fights and so this gives me the opportunity to fly in company with some very nice guys, you may not have the same imperative in terms of gaming companions but you should find it fun all the same.

  22. #172

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    I’ll break out the timeline and models this weekend and see what I can sub in. If it isn’t in the Immelmann pack I have, is there a stat list in the files section that shows deck, damage and hp?
    Last edited by BwanaJoe; 12-27-2018 at 14:24.

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    I’ll break out the timeline and models thise weekend and see what I can sub in. If it isn’t in the Immelmann pack I have, is there a stat list in the files section that shows deck, damage and hp?

    Joe,
    If you look at the plane list provided in the scenario outline, you will find a list of planes available for each side with their stats listed beside each plane, including movement deck, damage deck, hit points, and other additional information you might need.

  24. #174

    Default Rookie Query

    Lifted from Neil's BRF:
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ...Just a general question to everyone on Rookie Pilots, I've read the rules limitations on Rookies but somewhere I've read a different version, maybe in some campaign rules, and the gist of it was that initially a Rookie had certain manoeuvre cards removed from the deck and then after a number of missions these were gradually add back until he was flying with the full deck and was no longer considered a rookie.
    In my case I would probably never be flying with a full deck, however it seemed like quite a good idea and would maybe give a better representation of the difference between a competent and rookie pilot.
    Has anyone else seen this and can you point me in the right direction...
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Hi John
    Sounds like my House Rule "Rookie Progression Deck" idea........................
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...ogression+deck
    Decks in my Albums here : https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/al...p?albumid=2823
    Of course, it might be that other folks have developed something similar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Tim this was it exactly, thanks a lot, I read it initially and thought it was a good idea for Dave's concept of us starting this current OTT campaign as rookie pilots and progressing from that low base.
    I'll read through it more carefully tomorrow and if happy I will use it for my pilots in this campaign if Dave is happy it won't spoil the balance for the other participants...
    Hi John, if you feel the need to further hamper your rookies by all means go ahead, I may well do the same myself.
    It won't make any difference to balance or outcome of the campaign as I won't be keeping count across the campaign due to different rules used, people dropping out etc, makes overall results too inconsistent to be meaningful, though it may indicate which side got on better with a particular scenario.

    I will point out though that if you fully adopted Tim's house rules (and survived) you will be a rookie until near the end of the campaign as the period stretches across ten missions so you may need to adapt it to fit the three week/game rookie period. Look at it as the games we play are the highlights of the week.
    Also note, your enemy will not be flying rookies..!

    Agility of machines is usually denoted by sideslips so maybe take out the more radical of those first, down to one a side; the Immel obviously, having just two straights is a good idea, also reacting a card slower than your comrades might be worked in, eg if they turn to engage, you do so a card slower than them ? Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

    "He is wise who watches"

  25. #175

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    Lifted from Neil's BRF:




    Hi John, if you feel the need to further hamper your rookies by all means go ahead, I may well do the same myself.
    It won't make any difference to balance or outcome of the campaign as I won't be keeping count across the campaign due to different rules used, people dropping out etc, makes overall results too inconsistent to be meaningful, though it may indicate which side got on better with a particular scenario.

    I will point out though that if you fully adopted Tim's house rules (and survived) you will be a rookie until near the end of the campaign as the period stretches across ten missions so you may need to adapt it to fit the three week/game rookie period. Look at it as the games we play are the highlights of the week.
    Also note, your enemy will not be flying rookies..!

    Agility of machines is usually denoted by sideslips so maybe take out the more radical of those first, down to one a side; the Immel obviously, having just two straights is a good idea, also reacting a card slower than your comrades might be worked in, eg if they turn to engage, you do so a card slower than them ? Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

    Hi Dave, thanks for moving this here.

    Having had a good read through Tim's ideas I think I will take them onboard as they are but telescope the timescale to fit in with how you have described it in the Rules for this campaign. I'll be flying an FE2b which is a G deck, this has the same manoeuvres as the basic A deck so 1st game will be minus 1 each, side slip and turn and 1 straight. Use 1 stall each turn to represent slower than average pilots. For 2nd mission will add back the sideslips, for 3rd mission will add back straight and turns, removing the requirement for the stall. On 4th Mission use all the cards and remove normal rookie gun requirements.
    I feel that's going to be workable and give me some feel of moving from a rookie to a more experienced pilot in a relatively short period of time, mind you I think that 3 weeks at the front might seem a much longer time in reality.
    Cheers

  26. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    ...I feel that's going to be workable and give me some feel of moving from a rookie to a more experienced pilot in a relatively short period of time, mind you I think that 3 weeks at the front might seem a much longer time in reality. Cheers
    That looks quite workable John, and I'm pretty sure three missions will feel quite long enough to be exposed...

    "He is wise who watches"

  27. #177

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    Question for Dave:

    Will any of our opponents be Rookies.

    I looked through the Squadron Sheet and don't see any indication thereof.

    Our own crews are noted with (R) where applicable.

  28. #178

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    I decided against it Pete, mostly because it will be enough hassle for players to track their own let alone their opposition, rookies in opposition can always be added through the scenario. I also wanted the feel of us being the new guys on the block. We'll see how it goes.

    "He is wise who watches"

  29. #179

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    Carl has come up with a query about forced landings - ie being FRTB with no chance of escape the pilot chooses to land.
    This was discussed many years ago but is a rarely, if ever, used option. I have added this onto the crash/wounds page for info of those who have occasion to use the option:
    'Forced' Landings:
    If your machine has been badly mauled & FRTB but it's unlikely you can escape the table you have the option of a forced landing:
    As your machine has health points, ie it's not shot down, you can put it down without any kind of modifiers as you are making a 'controlled landing'.
    RTB is different as you're landing on an approved strip with support of staff to help so it has a positive modifier, landing elsewhere is effectively a zero, ie no modifier - Other than NML/SEA or Night landing (all -1) which would force a crash roll you just have to roll for E&E with the standard mods for BEL, NML/SEA or WIA - and count the machine as a kill to the opposition.

    "He is wise who watches"

  30. #180

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    Dave
    Just a question on your solo charts, the G chart has some wide side slips, but the G deck I have doesn't have any wide side slip cards. My deck is not an Ares one but is the Nexus one I believe, any thoughts?
    Cheers
    John

  31. #181

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    Dave

    I originally posted this in the DYM Mess.
    I suppose I should have put it here.

    Not sure if you have seen it, so am posting here as well.

    Dave, I printed off the DYM Rules and noticed this:

    Morale:
    All aircraft will actively engage until they are:
    a. Within 3 of destruction, or,
    b. Within 5 of destruction if on fire, or,
    c. The pilot’s wounded on A deck 5 or B deck 3 (includes those with strong constitution) or,
    d. The engine is damaged,

    Does that infer it's a Not So Strong Constitution?

    That takes away most of the value of this skill.

    Strong Constitution:
    This ace ignores the effects of the first crewman hit special damage on himself.

    In the original thread I see that Baz and Peter agree with me.

  32. #182

    Smile

    Played Mission One this morning.
    Hope to download/upload the pics tomorrow but wont be able to write up the AAR till Wednesday,
    Did not know there were so many damned Zeros in a double B deck!

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  33. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    Played Mission One this morning.
    Hope to download/upload the pics tomorrow but wont be able to write up the AAR till Wednesday,
    Did not know there were so many damned Zeros in a double B deck!
    He-he-he, wait until you see one of my Butcher's Bill photos - more zeroes than Bill Gates' bank balance!!!!
    Last edited by Carl_Brisgamer; 01-12-2019 at 20:31.

  34. #184

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    Played Mission One this morning.
    Hope to download/upload the pics tomorrow but wont be able to write up the AAR till Wednesday,
    Did not know there were so many damned Zeros in a double B deck!
    Fortunately I found a lot of zeros in the c deck

    Looks like there's going to be a few reports out soon

  35. #185

    Default New D8 G Deck Charts !

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Dave
    Just a question on your solo charts, the G chart has some wide side slips, but the G deck I have doesn't have any wide side slip cards. My deck is not an Ares one but is the Nexus one I believe, any thoughts?
    Cheers
    John
    The charts are very wrong John !
    Thanks for spotting that - I must have been asleep when I posted them, I will post correction in the files asap.

    I have posted v.3 & a G* version (without Immelmann) for those that need it.
    Last edited by flash; 01-13-2019 at 01:38.

    "He is wise who watches"

  36. #186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Dave

    I originally posted this in the DYM Mess.
    I suppose I should have put it here.

    Not sure if you have seen it, so am posting here as well.

    Dave, I printed off the DYM Rules and noticed this:

    Morale:
    All aircraft will actively engage until they are:
    a. Within 3 of destruction, or,
    b. Within 5 of destruction if on fire, or,
    c. The pilot’s wounded on A deck 5 or B deck 3 (includes those with strong constitution) or,
    d. The engine is damaged,

    Does that infer it's a Not So Strong Constitution?

    That takes away most of the value of this skill.

    Strong Constitution:
    This ace ignores the effects of the first crewman hit special damage on himself.

    In the original thread I see that Baz and Peter agree with me.
    The reason I did this is that although your pilot may not feel the effects of the wound regarding the jams / shooting aspect it may still be severe enough for him to head home to get himself fixed up. He is still wounded. If he wasn't he wouldn't be downed on a second hit.

    "He is wise who watches"

  37. #187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    The charts are very wrong John !
    Thanks for spotting that - I must have been asleep when I posted them, I will post correction in the files asap.

    I have posted v.3 & a G* version (without Immelmann) for those that need it.
    Cheers mate, I just substituted a sideslip for the wide side slip so no problem. re the version without the Immelmann, what plane do you envision that for? To be honest at the moment I'm only interested in the FE2b and thinking about it now I guess you might lose your gunner doing much in the way of acrobatics.

  38. #188

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post

    I have posted v.3 & a G* version (without Immelmann) for those that need it.
    Didn't realize I was missing the G deck of your D8 charts (never needed it before)
    Before I convert to the automated Excel version that I use, I am wondering if the G* is the same as the H/K ?

  39. #189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Didn't realize I was missing the G deck of your D8 charts (never needed it before)
    Before I convert to the automated Excel version that I use, I am wondering if the G* is the same as the H/K ?
    The G deck is a relatively late addition as no one was using it. It is could be the same as H/K & Y except that one sideslip pair is steep although that is not noted on the charts as you should be able to use them without it causing issues.

    "He is wise who watches"

  40. #190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Cheers mate, I just substituted a sideslip for the wide side slip so no problem. re the version without the Immelmann, what plane do you envision that for? To be honest at the moment I'm only interested in the FE2b and thinking about it now I guess you might lose your gunner doing much in the way of acrobatics.
    I don't, it was an option for some stuff before but probably all updated to a Y deck (some wrongly I think). you could also use it for bombed up FEE's.

    "He is wise who watches"

  41. #191

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    Thanks for the fast response, Dave.
    It will probably be another mission or two before the Fees take to the skies over my table.
    Gonna give the BE.2s a workout first.

  42. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Thanks for the fast response, Dave.
    It will probably be another mission or two before the Fees take to the skies over my table.
    Gonna give the BE.2s a workout first.
    Pete - That's very brave of you using the BEE's, I think you should be prepared for some heartache.

  43. #193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Pete - That's very brave of you using the BEE's, I think you should be prepared for some heartache.
    Aber ich werde für den Kaiser fliegen

  44. #194

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Pete - That's very brave of you using the BEE's, I think you should be prepared for some heartache.
    Brave... or suicidal...

  45. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Aber ich werde für den Kaiser fliegen
    Sorry I'd forgotten you were flying for the Kaiser, It's a poor show when you are looking for easy victories.

    Having seen your BE's they are very pretty so I can see why you would want them on the table.
    Cheers

  46. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Having seen your BE's they are very pretty so I can see why you would want them on the table ..
    Going to try to progress through the various types I have to keep the missions interesting over the course of the campaign.
    I feel sorry for the Bulldogs drawing the early mission and BE.2c

    Well, maybe not that sorry ...

  47. #197

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    I feel sorry for the Bulldogs drawing the early mission and BE.2c ...... Well, maybe not that sorry ...
    Its ok Pete - you can always even things up a bit by adding in an Aviatik for the Kaisers team like I did ...

  48. #198

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    I have decided to save the BE.2c for a ‘safer’ reconnaissance mission.
    Fire up the FE.2s!

  49. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I have decided to save the BE.2c for a ‘safer’ reconnaissance mission.
    Fire up the FE.2s!
    Nice! Would do the same... just don't have the FEEs. But I'm working on them!

    Will probably limit the number of Fokkers to balance the scales.

  50. #200

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    Its ok Pete - you can always even things up a bit by adding in an Aviatik for the Kaisers team like I did ...
    Yep! That helps. Well it did in my game.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

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