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Thread: Wings of War t.v. programme.

  1. #1

    Default Wings of War t.v. programme.

    A t.v. programme entitled 'Wings of War' will be shown at 10.00 p.m. on Tuesday 6th November on the channel called Quest (Freeview 37, Sky 144, Freesat 167, Virgin 172). It is described as," A look at how modern technology has affected aerial combat over the past 100 years". [There is also a Quest+1 channel, which repeats programmes one hour later.]

  2. #2

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    Thanks for the Heads up Dave.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  3. #3

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    I have watched a couple of these, not bad but nothing that we haven't seen before. Worth a watch if nothing else on

    Never knowingly under gunned !

  4. #4

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    Cheers David. Thanks for that

  5. #5

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    Nice "Heads up" well done that man

  6. #6

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    Saw it advertised but then forgot about it thanks for the reminder


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  7. #7

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    I've seen a few of these. Thanks for pointing me to the next one.

  8. #8

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    If you miss the programe tonight, it will be repeated at 4 p.m. on Saturday 10th November on Quest.

  9. #9

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    Thanks for the update David, this time ill make a recording

  10. #10

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    Oh, dear.......................

    Opening preamble; "the greatest naval encounter the world had ever seen", the Battle of Midway ................................ highly debatable

    "the SBD torpedo bomber" .................................... just plain WRONG!


    Pearl Harbor - the Kido Butai comprised "4 aircraft carriers"; there were, of course, six......................


    Hope it gets better.......

    It doesn't: - the Japanese had "more than 400 combat planes, if they could get them all in the air"
    100 for each of the 4 Japanese carriers? NO!
    72 + 66 + 63 + 57 does not add up to 400, even if including the floatplanes of the escorting cruisers.
    Last edited by Flying Helmut; 11-06-2018 at 16:13.

  11. #11

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    "Grumman Wildcat strike planes"???



    "The SBD pilot used hydraulics to open the bay doors and drop the bomb" - oh, no............




    On the plus side, there is some nice footage of US and Japanese ships and planes.
    Last edited by Flying Helmut; 11-06-2018 at 17:00.

  12. #12

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    Sorry, I did not know it was just a rehash of the Battle of Midway and that it would have so many errors.

  13. #13

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    If you can bear to watch, there is another episode next Tuesday at 10 p.m..

  14. #14

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    Tim.
    Eileen and I Loved your post. Gave us a good laugh thanks.
    She suggests you put the two posts together with your asides and send them to the channel providers.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  15. #15

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    Thanks Rob!

    Supplying footage of incorrect planes is understandable; there is little accurate footage available, so sometimes substitutions are made, but to hire (pay appearances fees to) "experts" who don't know their own subject is unforgivable!

    It is possible that the editing process resulted in their comments being shown out of context (eg the Kido Butai consisting of 4 aircraft carriers - there were 6 on the Pearl Harbour operation, 5 on the Indian Ocean raid and 4 at Midway, so the number of available aircraft would have varied) but someone must have reviewed the final edit, and failed to spot all the errors.

    Sometimes the script for the narrator is exaggerated for greater impact of the audience, and sometimes the omission of a single word can produce an entirely misleading result; my personal pet hate for this is Operation "Overlord".........
    Many programmes falsely claim that this was "the biggest invasion in history" - 40,000 men in a single day.
    What they SHOULD have said is "the biggest AMPHIBIOUS invasion in history"!
    Operation "Barbarossa" saw more than 1 million men cross the Soviet border on the first day, with nearly 3 million in the first two weeks! "Overlord" can hardly be called bigger than that, and yet some programmes do, for want of proper research and wording of their script.

    This "Wings of War" programme did not err in the same way (except perhaps in the comment with the Battle of Midway being "the greatest naval encounter the world had ever seen" - what they mean by "greatest" is up for debate), but getting the basic facts about the aircraft wrong (whether or not they had a bomb bay with doors, or whether or not they carried a torpedo) is inexcusable, particularly in the internet age, when huge amounts of information are clearly and easily available.

    It seems the programme has confused the Dauntless and the Avenger, assigning a bomb bay with doors and the capacity to carry a torpedo to the Dauntless, when both were true of the Avenger.

    It's not just TV programmes which do it - films are frequently presented as "historically accurate" (yet I have known Historical Advisors/Consultants silenced and/or fired from the Set for pointing out errors!), and even stamps and coins are poorly researched and incorrectly presented.

    In my "History of the Royal Navy" silver coin collection, the "Ark Royal 1933" coin is accompanied by a full colour information card portraying the "Ark Royal 1980", complete with service record and beautiful artwork!

    In my "World War Two" silver coin collection, the Spitfire on the "Battle of Britain" coin is a Mk IX!!!!! In the "Halfaya Pass" coin, the British 6pdr anti-tank guns are shown fending off Tiger tanks (prototype barely out of the factory, and CERTAINLY none present in the North African Western Desert in 1942)!!!!
    The coins are beautifully engraved, but just plain WRONG! Sadly, the general public are blissfully unaware...........................


    Blimey, seems it really DOES get my goat!

  16. #16

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    What defines an Expert? in the Summer of 1991, I became an "expert" according to a group of members belonging to a club similar to the Aerodrome, they are called the "Plastic Warrior" (Toy soldier collectors) at that time I had completely by accident discovered an unimpeachable source of information, An acquaintances (Jack) auntie used to assemble Britains swoppets (As an outworker) she died and her nephew inherited her house, He found in the attic boxes and boxes of unassembled Britains swoppets Knights, with all the parts still attached to their original sprues, Jack didn't have a clue what went with what so I stepped in to help, as a result I saw firsthand the entire range in all it's glory, 14 different heads, 20 different plumes Etc... you could make a thousand "Knight with Axe" and not one would look the same,

    Plastic Warrior has a massive get together once a year in Richmond (Queen Charlottes Hall) armed with my newly acquired knowledge I made my annual pilgrimage to this event, Quite by chance I had a conversation with a "Guy" (Chris Froome) who turned out to be an Editor of a magazine called "Toy soldier parade" published by yesteryear publishing limited, after my chat about Britains swoppets, he gave me his card and asked me to contact him later,

    To cut a long story short, I ended up with pages 17 to 18 for my articles about toy soldiers (Timpo, Britains, Crescent), and I was published, the next time I attended the AGM of "Plastic Warrior" people were calling me an "Expert on toy soldiers" at that point I had just 3 magazine "under my belt" on the strength of that I was offered a book deal, Total Madness!!! So what makes an Expert? a little bit of knowledge and a load of luck, if you are in the right place at the right time, you will get the job despite the fact, the "Expert" doesn't know his own subject, yes Tim (Flying Helmut) it is unforgivable, but faced with hands full of cash being thrust into your pockets, most people would only to glad to become "Instant Experts"

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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Thanks Rob!

    Supplying footage of incorrect planes is understandable; there is little accurate footage available, so sometimes substitutions are made, but to hire (pay appearances fees to) "experts" who don't know their own subject is unforgivable!

    It is possible that the editing process resulted in their comments being shown out of context (eg the Kido Butai consisting of 4 aircraft carriers - there were 6 on the Pearl Harbour operation, 5 on the Indian Ocean raid and 4 at Midway, so the number of available aircraft would have varied) but someone must have reviewed the final edit, and failed to spot all the errors.

    Sometimes the script for the narrator is exaggerated for greater impact of the audience, and sometimes the omission of a single word can produce an entirely misleading result; my personal pet hate for this is Operation "Overlord".........
    Many programmes falsely claim that this was "the biggest invasion in history" - 40,000 men in a single day.
    What they SHOULD have said is "the biggest AMPHIBIOUS invasion in history"!
    Operation "Barbarossa" saw more than 1 million men cross the Soviet border on the first day, with nearly 3 million in the first two weeks! "Overlord" can hardly be called bigger than that, and yet some programmes do, for want of proper research and wording of their script.

    This "Wings of War" programme did not err in the same way (except perhaps in the comment with the Battle of Midway being "the greatest naval encounter the world had ever seen" - what they mean by "greatest" is up for debate), but getting the basic facts about the aircraft wrong (whether or not they had a bomb bay with doors, or whether or not they carried a torpedo) is inexcusable, particularly in the internet age, when huge amounts of information are clearly and easily available.

    It seems the programme has confused the Dauntless and the Avenger, assigning a bomb bay with doors and the capacity to carry a torpedo to the Dauntless, when both were true of the Avenger.

    It's not just TV programmes which do it - films are frequently presented as "historically accurate" (yet I have known Historical Advisors/Consultants silenced and/or fired from the Set for pointing out errors!), and even stamps and coins are poorly researched and incorrectly presented.

    In my "History of the Royal Navy" silver coin collection, the "Ark Royal 1933" coin is accompanied by a full colour information card portraying the "Ark Royal 1980", complete with service record and beautiful artwork!

    In my "World War Two" silver coin collection, the Spitfire on the "Battle of Britain" coin is a Mk IX!!!!! In the "Halfaya Pass" coin, the British 6pdr anti-tank guns are shown fending off Tiger tanks (prototype barely out of the factory, and CERTAINLY none present in the North African Western Desert in 1942)!!!!
    The coins are beautifully engraved, but just plain WRONG! Sadly, the general public are blissfully unaware...........................


    Blimey, seems it really DOES get my goat!
    Well that was an excellent use of your tea break Tim. Bet you need a lie down after that .
    Couldn't agree with you more though


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by andron234 View Post
    faced with hands full of cash being thrust into your pockets, most people would only to glad to become "Instant Experts"
    Too true Drew, and what does that tell us about "most"? people.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Well that was an excellent use of your tea break Tim. Bet you need a lie down after that .
    Couldn't agree with you more though
    Might have pushed a bit beyond the end of my tea break - Mum's the word!!!!

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Too true Drew, and what does that tell us about "most"? people.
    Rob.
    Most people gargle from the fountain of knowledge.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Might have pushed a bit beyond the end of my tea break - Mum's the word!!!!
    Well I won't mention it if you don't Tim.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Might have pushed a bit beyond the end of my tea break - Mum's the word!!!!
    Name:  INF3_0229.jpg
Views: 10
Size:  182.7 KB



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