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Thread: Special Pack #3 (Medium Bombers) on the Way...?

  1. #201

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    Are posted a nice description of the Do 17 models on their homepage.

    https://www.aresgames.eu/25566
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  2. #202

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    I just preordered from Keith. I’m super excited to get these planes. Hopefully, the Blenheim and Sparviero aren’t too far behind. With the slow release pace over the years and the world dealing with corona virus, who knows what to expect.

  3. #203

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    For years people have been asking for different planes but they are so slow in releasing new ones. That's why many people get those planes for other sources. Then there are the paint schemes that they choose. A good example is the SBD that ARES did. I just did the ARES/NEXUS planes then started getting others and painted them. There are many people here that do fantastic paint jobs. The Do 17 will be a nice addition.

  4. #204

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    The official US release date of the JUNKERS JU.88 and DORNIER DO.17 is March 20th.
    Published on Ares Upcoming Products page : https://www.aresgames.eu/upcoming-products

    Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #205

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    Thanks, Monse!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  6. #206

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    Great news! I can’t wait for these to land in my hanger

  7. #207

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    Bombers are on their way from Colorado to Germany!

    Gentlemen start you engines - waves of hun bombers will cross the channel soon.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  8. #208

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    Looking forward to seeing mine, even if it means my B'day pressie will be a few days late.
    This will really expand the WW" experience.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  9. #209

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    Mine are scheduled to land in Utah tomorrow. Seeing as my job has gone on hiatus for the next 3 weeks, I will have plenty time to play with my boys, who are also home from school for a few weeks. Thanks Keith for getting these out to us in a timely fashion.

  10. #210

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    Mine landed in Akron today.
    A quick glance at the Ju.88s:
    significant differences between the A-1 and A-4 models; different decks (XE for the A-1 and XF for the A-4), with a noticeable speed difference. 1.8cm/0.7cm for the A-1 and 2.4cm/0.7cm for the A-4. Both decks have dive bombing cards.
    26 hits for the A-1, and 28 for the A-4. Upgrade cards for each to add a point for armor.
    The wing and tail edges show the blue underpaint on the A-1, though not too badly. The black of the A-4 blends in. Otherwise, not bad models.
    Karl

    EDIT: a bit of bad typing on my part; corrected.
    Last edited by Jager; 03-16-2020 at 15:11.
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  11. #211

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    Need scans of the new maneuver decks so I can update the MATES cards, if you'd be kind enough to do that?

    Seems I might have some time on my hands, with college face-to-face classes post-poned, and the Comox Air Force Museum closed to anyone but military staff, for a few weeks.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  12. #212

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    The Dorniers are different also. 24 hits and the U deck for the Z-2 (3.3cm/2.2cm) and 26 hits and the Y deck for the Z-10 (3.8cm/2.2cm).
    The paint is the same; the Z-2 shows a bit of blue, while the Z-10 is all black, though a couple of the mold lines are very visible.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  13. #213

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    Thx for that info, Karl.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    ...
    Ju.88s:
    significant differences between the A-1 and A-4 models; different decks (XE for the A-1 and XF for the A-4), with a noticeable speed difference. 1.8cm/0.7cm for the A-1 and 2.4cm/0.7cm for the A-4. Both decks have dive bombing cards.
    26 hits for the A-1, and 28 for the A-4. Upgrade cards for each to add a point for armor.
    ...
    Hmm, that is interesting. I guess A-1 would be my choice - lower speed allows to pursuit them easier with Gladiators.

  15. #215

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    Looking forward to mine arriving from Keith.
    I hope the Postman is still active. He is about my age group!

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Looking forward to mine arriving from Keith.
    I hope the Postman is still active. He is about my age group!

    Rob.
    I won't be in @ home - I'm basically nailed to my hospital job.

    But I'll happily pick 'em up from the Parcel office when they arrive!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    the Z-10 is all black, though a couple of the mold lines are very visible.
    I thought they looked pretty good with exception of the Z-10. Everyone of them I looked at had a large gap where the nose meets the fuselage. That appears to be where they made the two different noses interchangeable to get the two different versions and it just does not fit very well. It is interesting that the Z-2 I looked at you could barley see this line.

  18. #218

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    Yes, the Z-10 is disappointing. I didn’t really want the variant to begin with as it is extremely limited in use. That being said, I am glad I only bought one of them to maintain a complete collection. I may try some zap a gap or other model filler and touch it up and see if that helps. Thank you, Keith for the speed and quality packaging while shipping these out to us in these challenging times.

    That being said, I have minor quibbles with the other 3 models, but overall I feel these are well done and am grateful to add these to BoB scenarios. I think they hold good value for what I paid. I find it interesting that the Ju-88 uses bomber pegs and the Do-17 uses standard pegs. I like the Do-17 z-2 and the Ju-88 a-1 a lot and will likely buy one or two more of these for bigger battles.

    I still am excited to add the Blenheim and Sparviero at some point as well.
    Last edited by P-51D; 03-17-2020 at 12:33. Reason: Add some positivity

  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    I thought they looked pretty good with exception of the Z-10. Everyone of them I looked at had a large gap where the nose meets the fuselage. That appears to be where they made the two different noses interchangeable to get the two different versions and it just does not fit very well. It is interesting that the Z-2 I looked at you could barley see this line.
    I would say they look better than the BoB hurricanes. I think the blue lines are more noticeable since I'm currently painting planes for Origins, and am trying to keep such lines away
    Karl
    Last edited by Jager; 03-17-2020 at 14:18. Reason: typist error :(
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  20. #220

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    6 firing arcs for the Do 17 Z is challenging.

    I'm curious for the nightfighter.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  21. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-51D View Post
    the Z-10 is disappointing. I didn’t really want the variant to begin with as it is extremely limited in use.
    After taking part to Battle of France and Battle of Britain in 1940, Do.17 Z are still in use over England from January to late March 1941, before their units being sent to Balkans area and before most of the bombers units are sent to the East front in June 1941.
    On this link, a french magazine about the Blitz and the lists of damaged aircraft from January to June 1941 (page 80 to 96) : while there are more Ju.88 and He.111 shot down or damaged, many Do.17 figure among the loss between January and March 1941.
    Magazine BATAILLES AERIENNES N.82 - Octobre a Decembre 2017
    (Write the 4 numbers code to load the pdf)
    http://www.fourtoutici.pro/upload.ph...10/2017-10-31&

    In the magazine (pages 43-92, picture page 41) : one of the last Do.17 Z-10 in service (night fighter version - 2./NJG2 unit) is shot down by a Beaufighter (25 squadron) on the night of May 7-8 1941, over Carrington (Manchester area). On the same night (but not in the same place) a Bf.110 (I./SKG 210 unit) is shot down by a Hurricane (87 squadron) over the Channel.
    An idea of a Wings of Glory scenario including the new Ares miniature Dornier Do.17 Z-10 (NJG.2) WGS205B along with a Bf.110 (Radusch) WGS202C, facing the Bristol Beaufighter Mk.IF (Boyd) WGS201A and a Hurricane (WOW or WOG model).
    Three all black miniatures, Back in Black !

    Click image for larger version. 

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  22. #222

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    Sounds like an interesting scenario to me.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  23. #223

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    ...Frankly chaps, despite my nick I do not see ANY use of night versions of those famous bombers in our game. And I feel very sorry ARES is publishing night versions of the bombers instead of most desireble fighters, like Bf 109G, P-38, Fw 190A, Spit V, MC 202, Me 262 and lots of others... it seems to me they just want to get the players mad... Well, their other games are brilliant.
    No, I am not buying these...
    I can not understand that. I just can not. Every other game company listens to the players...
    Last edited by Nightbomber; 03-18-2020 at 05:06.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  24. #224

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    Why does ARES release night planes when they have not released night rules? Very confusing to me why they keep doing this.

    I felt your pain Andy and went ahead on my own to come up with some night rules. I wanted to use my Lancasters (Your favorite plane ) and the other night planes they have released. They are in the WW2 Files, House Rules. You can see them 'HERE' too.

  25. #225

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    Not keen on these either.
    I pre-ordered 3 each of the other Do-17 and 3 of both the Ju-88s, but only 2 of the night fighter (hoping they would come out with rules for them) to support the cause.

    But I do wish they would listen to those of us who do buy their products for a change.

    (and we do have Teaticket's rules at least)


    And Keith confirmed shipment today, so I will have additional bombers for the BoB campaign.

  26. #226

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    The AA store now has flight stands for the new BoB bombers using the official firing arcs.

  27. #227

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    Thanks Keith.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    6 firing arcs for the Do 17 Z is challenging.
    ...
    Do not forget that these 3 rear firing MGs are fired by 1 gunner, so only 1 at a time ..

  29. #229

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    Unless a gunner is a woman on maternity leave! They can handle several tasks in one moment.

  30. #230

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    Do you pilots know what is the designation of the Do 17Z bomber deck?
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  31. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Do you pilots know what is the designation of the Do 17Z bomber deck?
    It's the U deck.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  32. #232

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    Chris Goss, author of Dornier Do 17 Units of World War 2, gives a brief overview of his book :
    The Intruder Dornier Do 17 Z-7 and Z-10 1940–1941
    https://ospreypublishing.com/blog/Th...Dornier_Do_17/

    In this article, it appears that less than twenty Do 17 Z-7 and Z-10 have been built.
    Despite this limited number, they were used from June 1940 until October 1941, against British bombers (Blenheim, Wellington, Hampden, Hudson).
    Some interesting ideas of scenarios below, involving :
    - several Blenheims (9 September 1940)
    - four Do.17 Z-10 against several Spitfires + Hurricanes (11 February 1941)
    - a Beaufighter (8 May 1941)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    In June 1940, Maj Wolfgang Falck, formerly of 2 Staffel/Zerstörergeschwader 76 (2./ZG 76) and latterly commander of I./ZG 1 was tasked to form a nightfighter unit for defence of the Reich. The preferred nightfighters were the Messerschmitt Bf 110 and Junkers Ju 88C-2/C-4 but there would also be two versions of the Do 17 used as nightfighters – the Z-7 Kauz I and the Z-10 Kauz II (‘Kauz’ translated as ‘Screech Owl’). The glazed nose was removed from a Do 17 Z-3 and replaced by the nose from a Ju 88C-2/C-4. The armament was three 7.9mm machine guns and one 20mm cannon and the aircraft designated the Do 17Z-7. This was soon found to be unsatisfactory and an entirely new nose designed which increased the armament to four machine guns and two cannon. In the tip of the nose was an infra-red spotlight called Spanner-Anlage which was later replaced by first-generation FuG 202 Liechtenstein radar. This aircraft was now designated the Do 17Z-10.

    Precise numbers of Do 17Z-7 and Z-10s are hard to define but it is thought that eight Z-7s were produced and the survivors were later converted to be Z-10s of which around 11 were produced. The Z-7 first entered service with I./Nachtjagdgeschwader 1 (I./NJG 1) on or about 22 June 1940 and the first recorded combat probably came on the early hours of 29 June 1940 when a Whitley of 58 Squadron flown by Plt Off Bill Espley reported damaging a nightfighter near Eindhoven. A Do 17Z-7 of 1./NJG 1 coded G9+GK and flown by Uffz Hugo Schwarz was damaged in combat and later crash-landed near Mönchengladbach. Schwarz and his radio operator Fw Gerhard Palm were both injured while the engineer Fw Ludwig Born later died of his wounds.

    In August 1940, the Do 17Z-7s and Z-10s now became part of II./NJG 1. The Gruppe would be commanded by Maj Karl-Heinrich Heyse, an experienced bomber pilot. Two of the Staffel operated the Ju 88C-2/C-4 – 4 Staffel was commanded by Oblt Herbert Bönsch while 6 Staffel was commanded by Oblt Karl Hülshoff. Just 5 Staffel appears to have operated the Do 17Z-7/Z-10 and was commanded by Hptm Rolf Jung. However, Maj Heyse would be reported missing in action over the North Sea on 23 November 1940 while flying a Ju 88C-4 and was replaced by Hülshoff and, as on 11 September 1940 II./NJG 1 had become I./NJG 2, command of Hülshoff's 3./NJG 2 went to Oblt Ulrich Mayer.On 17 July 1940, Oberst Josef Kammhuber was given command of the new 1 Nachtjagddivision. He firmly believed that suitably converted bombers such as the Do 17Z and Ju 88 flown by experienced crews would be ideal for Fernnachtjadg (long range nightfighter) missions over the UK and later said:

    ‘When I want to kill wasps, I smoke out their nest. I don't swat insects in the air one at a time, I go to the nest when they are in!’

    So it was that II./NJG 1 and then I./NJG 2 began intruder operations over British airfields from Gilze-Rijen in Holland.

    It is difficult to tie the majority of 2./NJG 2's kills to the Kauz II as it was only used in very small numbers and was soon replaced by the Ju 88C. For example, during the period June to October 1940, Do 17Z-7s and Z-10s were only used on 19 nights flying 22 sorties. Uffz Vincenz Giessübel flew his first intruder mission in a Do 17Z-10 on the night of 15/16 November 1940 and only flew another three before the end of the year.

    However, the first recorded successful interception by a Do 17Z-10 came on the night of 9 September 1940 and was the first success of the war for Fw Hermann Sommer of 5./NJG 1, albeit his claim was optimistic. He had taken off from Gilze-Rijen at 2105hrs and claimed to have shot down a Blenheim in the circuit at RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire at 2315hrs. Although not mentioned in any detail in the 15 Squadron records, it is believed that Sommer attacked a Blenheim flown by Plt Off James Kee who was the pilot of one of ten aircraft briefed to attack Ostende harbour. All that it is said is that he was attacked by an enemy aircraft and successfully landed the damaged aircraft at RAF Wyton.

    The first confirmed kill by a Do 17Z-10 came at 2125hrs on 16 October 1940 and was credited to Lt Ludwig Becker. 4./NJG 1 was still operating the Do 17Z-10 before converting to the Bf 110 shortly afterwards; Becker recorded the following:

    ‘I was well positioned at the correct altitude of 3300m and directed onto enemy by a series of continual corrections. Suddenly I saw an aircraft in the moonlight about 100m above and to the left. On moving closer I made it out to be a Vickers Wellington. Slowly I closed in behind and aimed a burst of five to six seconds duration at the fuselage. The starboard engine caught fire immediately and I pulled my aircraft up. For a while the Englishman flew on, losing height rapidly. The fire died away but I then saw him spin towards the ground and burst into flames on crashing.’

    The Wellington was not English but Czech and from 311 Squadron engaged in at attack on Kiel. Plt Off Bohumil Landa and three of his crew were killed when the bomber crashed at Oosterwolde in Holland but two more crew were captured.

    The first confirmed intruder success and almost definitely caused by a Do 17Z-10 was a Hampden shot down by Lt Heinz Völker near Scampton at 0030hrs on 28 October. The 49 Squadron Operational Record Book states what happened:

    ‘One aircraft was attacked by an enemy aircraft while circling the Q site on return. The aircraft suffered slight damage including three burst tyres and shot accumulator. Hampden X3027 landed in the sea half a mile off Skegness. It is believed that they had been shot up by an enemy aircraft while over this aerodrome [Scampton].’

    The damaged Hampden X3001coded EA-H was flown by Plt Off John Green who landed without incident at 0140hrs but there were no survivors from Plt Off John Bufton's aircraft. Völker would then claim a Blenheim over the North Sea on the night of 22 December again probably flying a Do 17Z-10 but this cannot be matched with any RAF losses. In 1941, Völker would convert to the Ju 88C-2/C-4 and fly with 3./NJG 2 claiming another five RAF aircraft on intruder missions, becoming one of the most successful intruder pilots to date. There would be one more claim for him when at 0130hrs on 22 July 1941, he collided with a Wellington of 11 Operational Training Unit which was preparing to land at RAF Bassingbourne, both aircraft then crashing at Ashwell in Hertfordshire with the deaths of the three German and eight RAF aircrew.

    There are only three other nights where Luftwaffe records specifically mention Do 17Z-10s shooting down RAF aircraft. The first was the night of 10/11 February 1941 when four aircraft, three of them flown by Hptm Rolf Jung, Oblt Albert Schulz and Lt Joahnnes Feuerbaum, were involved. The first claim was made by Oblt Schulz whose claim was optimistic and no losses can be attributed to his attack. Furthermore, he actually attacked RAF Coltishall where Spitfires of 222 Squadron and Hurricanes of 255 Squadron were carrying out night flying practice; 222 Squadron reported afterwards:

    ‘While night flying was in progress at about midnight, one enemy aircraft was seen by Sgt [Rainford] Marland to be making the circuit behind the aircraft flown by Sgt [Norman] Ramsay who was then fired upon. Sgt Marland made five separate attacks on this e/a which was identified as an Me 110. Shortly afterwards incendiary bombs were dropped and two hangars sustained slight damage. A second stick was dropped and it is believed that e/a was then intercepted by a Hurricane [Sgt Leslie Barnes of 257 Squadron] and chased out to sea.’

    Hptm Jung, with his crew Uffz Theo Schürks and Uffz Herbert Thomas were the next to claim and reported:

    ‘Take-off at 2345hrs, landing at 0346hrs, over target area 0100–0300hrs. Observed four landing aircraft near illuminated airfield 10280. Own plane was detected too early. The lights of the airfield were switched off. Dropped 120 incendiary bombs on accommodation and hangars from 0100–0145hrs in three attacks from 500m altitude. Observed numerous persistent fires. Fired at fire brigade crews in six low-level attacks. Observed six landing aircraft at airfield 10242 at 0220hrs. Attacked an aircraft at 100m altitude, the navigation lights were immediately switched off, further pursuit was without any result. Shot down a Wellington near 10242 in 200m altitude at 0230 hrs. After two bursts of fire, the right engine burned and the plane exploded in the air. Despite the air combat there was well-aimed light anti-aircraft fire, six hits in own machine. Attacked a Bristol Blenheim with three bursts near Great Yarmouth at 800m altitude at 0300hrs.The Blenheim was shooting recognition signals (red-yellow).Hits and fire effect recognized perfectly. Further observation of the aircraft was not possible. Subsequent loss of the aircraft can be expected.’

    The only loss than can be attributed was a Wellington from 115 Squadron and captained by Sgt Harry Rogers which was returning from an attack on Hannover. The pilot managed to crash-land at Narborough near Swaffham in Norfolk with just the rear gunner suffering injuries.

    On the night of 7/8 April 1941, Lt Hans Feuerbaum almost got another victim while flying a Do 17Z-10 when he claimed a Hudson near Wells flown by Plt Off Charles Alexander DFM. On the way home Feuerbaum then claimed what he thought was a Hereford but was probably a Whitley of 51 Squadron flown by Plt Off Gordon Mattey which reported being attacked by a German aircraft 60 miles east of Flamborough Head, Mattey being slightly wounded in the action. Feuerbaum would claim just one more RAF aircraft on the early morning of 3 May but he was possibly flying a Ju 88C; even the crew of his intended victim, a Whitley of 77 Squadron flown by Sgt Mills, failed to recognize what their assailant was flying. Feuerbaum would live another one month and one day as he and his crew would be killed on 4 June near Whitby in Yorkshire when their Ju 88C-2 flew into the ground in bad weather.

    The final kill that can be attributed to a Do 17Z-10 intruder went to recently promoted Fw Vincenz Giessübel who shot down an 11 Operational Training Unit Wellington over RAF Bassingbourne at 0050hrs on 24 April 1941 and which then crashed onto and destroyed a second Wellington. It was Giessübel's 37th operational flight of the war and he would continue to fly the Do 17Z-10 with 2./NJG 2 on another 33 operational flights, failing to increase his score, his last operational flight being on 13 October 1941, after which he only flew the Ju 88C-4.

    Do 17Z-10 losses were understandably light due to the small numbers involved and around 13 October 1941, intruder missions ceased by order of the Führer who wanted to see RAF bombers burning on German territory rather than British airfields. On 13 October 1940, Do 17Z-10 coded R4+DK crashed on landing at Gilze-Rijen injuring Uffz Erich Götz and two crew. Then on 9 November 1940, Ofw Herbert Schmidt flying R4+HK was damaged by Flak on an intruder sortie and crash-landed at Gilze-Rijen. Finally on 5 February 1941, Oblt Otto Hauser's R4+BK went missing on an intruder sortie. The second and last combat loss which also saw the last Do 17 to crash on British soil during the war came on 8 May 1941 when Fw Wilhelm Lettenmeier's Werk Nummer 2843 coded R4+GK was intercepted by a Beaufighter of 25 Squadron flown by Plt Off David Thompson with radar operator Plt Off Leslie Britain; initially the British crew had difficulty getting behind the German aircraft due to its low speed:

    ‘I throttled back which caused exhaust flames to appear from our aircraft which was up moon of the Dornier which apparently sighted the Beaufighter and immediately made a steep turn to port in an attempt to evade and did evade the first burst of one second which I fired attacking on the starboard beam at a range of 100yds. I followed the Dornier which continued on a straight course after making the steep turn to port giving me the impression that the pilot of the Dornier thought he had succeeded in evading me. I followed him and fired two further one second bursts at about 100yds range from below and to starboard and I saw hits from the first burst and after the second burst the port motor of the Dornier caught on fire.’

    Flight engineer Uffz Herbert Thomas recalls what happened next:

    ‘There was an awful crash and grinding noise and the port engine began to burn brightly. The noise was terrific. My first reaction was to get the canopy clear, close the fuel tap, cut the ignition, cut everything. I went to help Lettenmeier but our Dornier simply went down. The fire closed on the cockpit and together we gave the command to get out. Tracers went under me and the Bola [gondola] but I could not find the switch for the bale out buzzer so with a great effort I forced open the hatch against the airstream. I climbed onto the radio operator's position and to my surprise found that Georg [Uffz Herden] was still at his post. I screamed at him to jump and together we got out.’

    Both survived but the pilot was killed (sadly David Thompson would be killed in a flying accident 8 July 1941). Do 17 crashed at West Fen, Medlam Drain, Carrington in Lincolnshire and hit the ground at high speed, exploded and caused a deep crater. The body of Wilhelm Lettenmeier was found 100yds away with an unopened parachute. Despite being the first (and last) Z-10 to crash on land, all that the RAF could find of note was a plate stating the aircraft had been made by Dornier at Friedrichshafen, traces of machine guns were found as well as a single 15mm round and that it had been carrying 1kg incendiaries.

    Although the Do 17Z-10 soldiered on, it was soon replaced by more adept nightfighters, namely the Bf 110, Ju 88C-4 and even the Do 215 B-5. The last recorded incident involving a Do 17Z-10 came on 19 September 1941 an aircraft of 2./NJG 2 suffered an undercarriage collapse at Gilze-Rijen.
    Last edited by monse; 06-14-2021 at 00:28.

  33. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    It's the U deck.

    Karl
    It is a new one, is not it, Karl?
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    It is a new one, is not it, Karl?
    The 4 decks of the 4 new bombers are new.

    Resistance / Maneuver deck

    DORNIER DO.17 Z : 24 / U

    DORNIER DO.17 Z-10 : 26 / Y

    JUNKERS JU.88 A-1 : 26 / XE

    JUNKERS JU.88 A-4 : 28 / XF

  35. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by monse View Post
    The 4 decks of the 4 new bombers are new.

    Resistance / Maneuver deck

    DORNIER DO.17 Z : 24 / U

    DORNIER DO.17 Z-10 : 26 / Y

    JUNKERS JU.88 A-1 : 26 / XE

    JUNKERS JU.88 A-4 : 28 / XF
    Thank you very much, monse.

    Now the question is (I do not have my box with decks at hand): are these completely new decks in WGS or we already got any of them with other planes?
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  36. #236

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    It will be only possible to answer when some of us have opened their new bomber packs.

    Anyway, here is a comparison of top speed and deck (planes edited in miniatures by Ares)

    small and medium bases (single engine fighter and two engines fighter)
    DORNIER 17 : 427 km/h - U
    FIAT CR.42 : 441 km/h - L
    DOUGLAS SBD-5 DAUNTLESS : 410 km/h - I

    large base (multi engine bomber)
    JUNKERS 88 A-1 : 427 km/h - XE
    JUNKERS 88 A-4 : 470 km/h - XF
    HEINKEL 111 H-2 : 405 km/h - XA
    N.A. B.25H MITCHELL : 442 km/h - XB
    BOEING B.17G : 462 km/h - XC
    LANCASTER Mk.l : 462 km/h - XD

    As the sources are plural, the results may differ.
    But we can imagine that the DORNIER 17 could have a straight of 2,7 or 3,2 cm (like I or L deck)
    JUNKERS 88 A-1 : straight of 1,8 cm (like XA deck)
    JUNKERS 88 A-4 : straight of 2,4 cm (like XB, XC and XD decks).

    The final answer is in the boxes ...

    http://merlindex.free.fr/wowadj/tabl...W2%20Monse.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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  37. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by monse View Post
    It will be only possible to answer when some of us have opened their new bomber packs.

    Anyway, here is a comparison of top speed and deck (planes edited in miniatures by Ares)

    small and medium bases (single engine fighter and two engines fighter)
    DORNIER 17 : 427 km/h - U
    FIAT CR.42 : 441 km/h - L
    DOUGLAS SBD-5 DAUNTLESS : 410 km/h - I

    large base (multi engine bomber)
    JUNKERS 88 A-1 : 427 km/h - XE
    JUNKERS 88 A-4 : 470 km/h - XF
    HEINKEL 111 H-2 : 405 km/h - XA
    N.A. B.25H MITCHELL : 442 km/h - XB
    BOEING B.17G : 462 km/h - XC
    LANCASTER Mk.l : 462 km/h - XD

    As the sources are plural, the results may differ.
    But we can imagine that the DORNIER 17 could have a straight of 2,7 or 3,2 cm (like I or L deck)
    JUNKERS 88 A-1 : straight of 1,8 cm (like XA deck)
    JUNKERS 88 A-4 : straight of 2,4 cm (like XB, XC and XD decks).

    The final answer is in the boxes ...

    http://merlindex.free.fr/wowadj/tabl...W2%20Monse.pdf

    Thank you for posting all of this information!

  38. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Future Pilot View Post
    Thank you for posting all of this information!
    ^ +1
    Rep on the way.

  39. #239

    Default

    Very nice info graphics Monse. Thanks.

  40. #240

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    All that info is exceedingly interesting and useful Monse.
    Even more rep is on the way.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  41. #241

    Thumbs up

    Thanks for all that great info Monse.

    Have some REP on me.

  42. #242

  43. #243

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    Dornier Do.17Z and Junkers Ju.88 A-1 unboxing by Rival Sky Games on Utube :
    https://youtu.be/yynpuFHLkKc

    Be careful with loose bomber pegs, to avoid falling bomber .... (8:00 on the video)
    Paintings and contents look good.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  44. #244

    Thumbs up

    I received my Dornier Z from Evan at Rival Sky Games in the mail today & it is extremely nice.
    Only slight fault I can pick is the pale edging on the tail fins but that will be easy to rectify.
    I will be doing some decaling tomorrow.

  45. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Need scans of the new maneuver decks so I can update the MATES cards, if you'd be kind enough to do that.
    Those are very low poor resolution. I don’t know if it can be of any help.
    U and Y Sideslips are steep maneuvers.
    XE and XF two last maneuvers are dive bombing cards (non steep).

    - U - Y - XE - XF -
    Click image for larger version. 

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  46. #246

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    Nice - wondered before if the Do 17 nightfighter has an Immelman maneuver.
    Voilą le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post
    Nice - wondered before if the Do 17 nightfighter has an Immelman maneuver.
    It's still a bomber, at heart
    Having just re-read a couple of books on the night bombing campaign, I can say that the big advantages of the 2-engined NFs were endurance, and the 2nd and 3rd crewman.
    The German crews particularly had to check 2 or 3 radar scopes (1 or 2 radar sets), listen for instructions from the ground station(s), watch for enemy radars, and search visually.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  48. #248

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    Who doesn't love the Immelman on aircraft like this? Eh Peter???

  49. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveman View Post
    Who doesn't love the Immelman on aircraft like this? Eh Peter???
    Ahhhhh....

  50. #250

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    Ares Games has put up a notice on its website to say that Alliance, who distribute Ares materials to the U.S.A. and Non-European countries, has shut down for the time being. It also says that they can still ship stock from Germany to Europe at the moment. I hope that means we may still receive the new bombers soon.

    On the Upcoming page the estimated release of new material is now May/June.

    https://www.aresgames.eu/25710

    https://www.aresgames.eu/upcoming-products

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