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Thread: Arado Ar 234,The one man planne???

  1. #1

    Default Arado Ar 234,The one man planne???

    In the closing years of the war (WW2) many new planes took to the skies, one of the most outstanding planes in that new line up was the Arado Ar 234, I am going to concentrate on the night fighter variant as flown by Hauptman Kurt Bonow, On 26, March 1945, Hauptman Kurt Bonow, took command of the unit that was to be re-designated Erprobungskommando Bonow, based in Oranienburg, his Arado Ar 196 B-2/N was equipped with an additional ventrally mounted "Magirusbombe" weapon holder mounting two MG151 20 mm guns, combined with a pair of forward-firing MG 151/20 autocannon this machine was lethal, But how do you locate it's prey?

    Name:  <acronym title=aaa.jpg Views: 457 Size: 44.7 KB" style="float: CONFIG" />

    Simply a reduced-dipole length version of the standard Hirschgeweih eight-dipole element, VHF-band transceiving AI radar antenna system worked by a second crew member, who operated the system from a very cramped compartment in the rear fuselage, Kommando Bonow operated two of these machines, both planes were considered as prototypes, alas Bonow's team soon found the aircraft to be unsuited for night fighting, when the war finished not one single "Kill" had been "Chalked up" to the Ar 234's of Kommando Bonow

    "Here's one I made earlier"

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    Last edited by andron234; 10-21-2018 at 14:13.

  2. #2

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    Given all the demands on the Luftwaffe, this conversion made no sense at all. Lancs aren't going to outrun a Ju.88 or He.219, and if your mosquito hunting,
    you'd do better with a radar equipped Fw-190 or Me.262.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  3. #3

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    Karl to me it seems as every Aircraft manufacturer were "doing their own thing" in an attempt to produce a "world beater" like The Dornier Do 335 Pfeil (Arrow), so manufacturers made unnecessary machines and conversions, "GOOD JOB" I'm glad they did or I might have been typing in German, and eating Sauerkraut.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Given all the demands on the Luftwaffe, this conversion made no sense at all. Lancs aren't going to outrun a Ju.88 or He.219, and if your mosquito hunting,
    you'd do better with a radar equipped Fw-190 or Me.262.
    Karl

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by andron234 View Post
    Karl to me it seems as every Aircraft manufacturer were "doing their own thing" in an attempt to produce a "world beater" like The Dornier Do 335 Pfeil (Arrow), so manufacturers made unnecessary machines and conversions, "GOOD JOB" I'm glad they did or I might have been typing in German, and eating Sauerkraut.


    that ably illustrates a major problem with supposedly super efficient totalitarian regimes. everyones working secretly in their own little sphere of inlfuence, protecting it jealously. with no one sharing research (at least until forced to) or concepts. it leads to much duplication of effort and useless blind ally dead ends.

  5. #5

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    "Spot on" Philip, the German Aircraft manufacturers wasted a lot of time and effort on building similar machines, for the same specifications

  6. #6

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    The German military issued strict specifications and the companies had to compete for those contracts. That is why there were so many similar designs built, all vying for the win. Special designs had to be sold to the RLM before being built since critical war supplies were so limited. . .

  7. #7

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    A nice model, Drew. Did you build it completely from scratch or adapt an Arado Ar.196 model?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by clipper1801 View Post
    The German military issued strict specifications and the companies had to compete for those contracts. That is why there were so many similar designs built, all vying for the win. Special designs had to be sold to the RLM before being built since critical war supplies were so limited. . .



    so did the us government but we had nowhere near the cross duplication. as for the blind ally research, well we did have the bat bomb and pigeon guided missile.

  9. #9

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    No lines drawings of the radar-equipped version on-line that I can find, only this version:
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    Any stats?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    No lines drawings of the radar-equipped version on-line that I can find, only this version:
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    Any stats?
    Yes

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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    A nice model, Drew. Did you build it completely from scratch or adapt an Arado Ar.196 model?
    It's a Revell 1/48 Arado Ar 234 B-2/N Nachtigall # 4505 - Plastic Model Kit with a lot of love added (Photo etched parts)

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  12. #12

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    PS: Thanks for the good top-down photo, Drew.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Any stats?
    I haven't gotten to jets yet. I'll see what it looks like.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I haven't gotten to jets yet. I'll see what it looks like.
    Karl
    What if we went with:
    Heavy Fighter Base
    Maneuver Deck: P* (No Reversals)
    Damage: 25
    Armament: CC/C (two 20mm cannons - Forward Arc)

    This version had the extra two 20mm cannons:
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    Last edited by OldGuy59; 10-22-2018 at 23:07.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  15. #15

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    After some thinking:
    Speed is, of course, too high for even a fast fighter deck.
    The T deck as a base, as it has the highest slow speed (still to slow), and multiply by 1.12.
    No reversals, and no 45 degree turns, only 1 difficult SS
    Damage: 22
    Ceiling: 11
    Climb: 6
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    After some thinking:
    Speed is, of course, too high for even a fast fighter deck.
    The T deck as a base, as it has the highest slow speed (still to slow), and multiply by 1.12.
    No reversals, and no 45 degree turns, only 1 difficult SS
    Damage: 22
    Ceiling: 11
    Climb: 6
    So, I obviously don't know what I'm doing in figuring out speeds in this game. However, the P-51 does 500 MPH, and the Ar.234 does 700 MPH? Why is the P deck too fast? Or am I getting it backwards, and you mean that the P deck is too slow?

    If you agree it the P deck is too slow, what do you mean by multiply by 1.12? Go figure, I don't have MATES WWII versions of the S and T decks to look at, and therefore use to verify what would work best for an alternate deck.

    I have a cheat sheet for doing stats, and I used it to do the damage. It is also, obviously, out of date, too:

    Possible Formulae for determining aircraft stat - revised.

    Fast (A,B,E,F,G,H): 555 km/h plus
    Medium (C,D) : 505 km/h plus
    Slow (K): 455 km/h plus
    V.Slow (J,L): 405 km/h plus
    Pedestrian(I) : 355 km/h plus

    Add 75 km/h to range if using bomber base ( ie K is 530 km/h plus)

    Damage :
    Fighters : 5 + (Empty Weight in Kg / 200)
    Bombers : Loaded weight/400
    Do we have a new version of the above? Or should we leave it to the Unofficial Stats Committee, cause there are additional fudge factors that need to be considered, I'm sure.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  17. #17

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    Mike;
    Let get back to you when I have time for a long PM.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  18. #18

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    Probably not old enough to need an necro-spell; just some forgotten work
    Ah, things I keep forgetting to do.
    Of course, I have my proposed jets rules:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...rojects-hanger

    If you don't want to do the 3 stage speeds, use the E deck fast speed as 'slow' and the slow speed straight length added first to all the fast speeds.
    This makes the jets a bit less maneuverable at fast speed, as the 30 and 45 degree turns aren't quite that with the added 3.2cm straight starting off. But jets aren't going to win a turning contest with prop planes anyway, right
    Note that this makes the length of the fast straight 9.2cm. Also, there should be no stall cards in this deck. Jets could not stall, well not if they want to keep flying.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Probably not old enough to need an necro-spell; just some forgotten work
    Ah, things I keep forgetting to do.
    Of course, I have my proposed jets rules:
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...rojects-hanger

    If you don't want to do the 3 stage speeds, use the E deck fast speed as 'slow' and the slow speed straight length added first to all the fast speeds.
    This makes the jets a bit less maneuverable at fast speed, as the 30 and 45 degree turns aren't quite that with the added 3.2cm straight starting off. But jets aren't going to win a turning contest with prop planes anyway, right
    Note that this makes the length of the fast straight 9.2cm. Also, there should be no stall cards in this deck. Jets could not stall, well not if they want to keep flying.

    Karl



    i dont know, 2 years is pretty dead. unless someone wants to try and convince us our ring necked german blue nightfighter is just having a nap

  20. #20

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    Copied from the original post here: Arado Ar.234 Bomber

    First attempt at a Jet card. Card size is 64mm wide by 102mm high.

    Three speeds, with the slow speed arrows being 30mm long, the middle speed arrows at 58mm, and the fast speed being 92mm long.

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    PS: For the 30 degree turns, I have excentuated the fast speed turn by adding a 20mm straight length to the base of a borrwed slower deck arrow, rather than making a shallow curve. I borrowed from other decks to get the middle and slow speed turns, so no 'delay' in the turn.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 10-24-2020 at 00:21.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  21. #21

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    Work continues, and expands to cover a few more jets: Arado Ar.234 Bomber
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  22. #22

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    And now for my next "Trick" four engines

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  23. #23

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    Ah, the C model. Faster yet. Is that a 1/72 scale model, or is someone making a 1/200 one
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  24. #24

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    Well, if I keep working on the "fastest" jet (Me.262 as a plane that could be reasonably flown in a dogfight), this could be worked into the system, too.

    Might be able to make something out of this:
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  25. #25

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    Yes, the Ar.234-C was about the same speed as the Me.262. Though not with a bombload.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  26. #26

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    Just in case anyone gets one of these into the game:
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    PS:
    1(F)./Aufklärungsgruppe 123
    Serial: W.Nr.250001
    Pilot - Oberfeldwebel Johne. Alt-Lonnewitz, Germany, early 1945.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 10-29-2020 at 21:16.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  27. #27

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    Thats nice Mike

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  28. #28

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    I'd love to use some Ar.234-Cs in my Seelowe '46 games. They are fast though, so catching them, even with Meteors or P-80s would be tough.
    Well not so tough when loaded; they go down to the Jet(O**) deck then, so the fastest straight is "only" 10.3cm, and the P-80s can go 12.6 cm. Sadly for the Brits, the meteor F.3s are Jet(O**) also
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus



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