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Thread: TnT With Altitude

  1. #1

    Default TnT With Altitude

    I have recently been encouraged to look at the altitude issue, or rather, the lack of it in TnT and here is what I've come up with after much thought, some testing and practice.


    WoG altitude doesn't make any sense when used with Tripods (if a level of altitude is supposed to be 1000ft) !
    Basically a tripod is 0 ft compared to WoG altitudes, ranging from 23 - 46ft as they do so I think the thing to do is forget altitudes as we know them and just work it around peg heights, accepting it is a low level, skirmish type action to get to grips with them.
    This could allow some dramatic movement if/when required.

    Shooting:
    Aircraft:
    Peg Height. 1-4 - As Normal, Long range 1 card, short range 2 cards
    5-8 - Short range only, 1 card
    9-12 - No shooting

    Heat Rays:
    Medium: shoot half range for targets 9-12 pegs, long range at targets 1-8 pegs
    Heavy: shoot half range for targets 13-20 pegs, long range at anything lower 1-12 pegs

    Black Smoke:
    To make the Black Smoke effective as a smoke screen it needs to hide the Tripod so I elected to make it deploy up to a minimum of 4 pegs high for all but the Cuttlefish for which it is 6 pegs. (I'd considered 1-8 pegs but then a plane can't fly over it and attack a tripod from above)

    Collisions:
    Collisions can occur between planes and tripods up to the height of the tripod. When a plane's peg (or red dot, if using a card) end up on a tripod's base at the end of the movement phase, a collision has occurred. Each vehicle involved draws a C card. If the plane enters the tripod base on an unshielded side the tripod suffers full points damage shown on the card. If the plane enters the tripod base on a shielded side, the tripod suffers energy damage if indicated on the card.
    No points damage occurs unless the tripod's normally shielded side is unshielded for any reason.
    Heights of Tripods in use: 1-2 for Squid, 1-4 for Locust & Scarab, 1-6 for Cuttlefish.

    Close Quarter Battle:
    Tripods have arms & claws so can attack planes that overlap but don't collide with them. 1 C deck damage but only if 'Destroy Objective' action card played by the Tripod (in anticipation of the overlap). Special damage counts.

    Flying & Altitude:
    I use my simple Altitude rules for this:
    The idea behind these rules is to treat altitude as if it occurs in a bubble of air combat - or at skirmish ranges if you prefer - adjustments up and down bring guns to bear, or, avoid attack. Like Tripod's actions the pilot can decide his climb/dive actions before he plays a movement card.

    Gaining Altitude:
    Aircraft can gain 1 peg on any Straight, Stall, or Turn card but not on any Sideslip card.
    Using a climb card (ie the short red one) an aircraft will gain pegs up to those allowed for it's climb rate.*
    After any climb manoeuvre, you can only fire at a target at or above your current altitude.

    Losing Altitude:
    Aircraft can lose 1 peg on any Straight, any Sideslip card, or Turn card but not on the Stall card.
    Using a dive card (ie the long red one) an aircraft will lose pegs matching the dive rate they choose.**
    After any dive manoeuvre, you can only fire at a target at or below your current altitude.

    I suggest the pilots add their altitude actions before each movement card is played, much like the Tripod selects it's actions. This gives some symmetry to the turns & allows planes to respond to changing conditions if able.

    Special:
    At 6 peg, or greater, altitude difference, attacking aircraft must use dive or climb cards to fire their fixed guns at a target due to the angle of attack. (unless: using an upward, or, a downward firing gun)
    They receive the +1 damage bonus in the first phase of firing of this attack against aircraft flying level. (ie in plan view)
    During ‘special manoeuvres’ the Immelmann card is 3 pegs (or it's climb rate) up or down.

    *Expanding on climb cards:
    Aircraft with a climb rate of 2 gain max 6 pegs;
    (Fok Dr1;D.VII/D.V; SE5a; SPAD VII/XIII; Sop Snipe; DH4; SSD.III; Aviatik D.I);
    a climb rate of 3 gain max 5 pegs
    (eg Sop Triplane, Camel, Dolphin; Brisfit; Pfalz D.III's; Phonix D.I; Macchi;Rumpler; Breguet);
    a climb rate of 4 gain max 4 pegs
    (eg Albatros DIII/D.Va,; Halbestadt DII/III; Hannover CL.IIIs; Sop Pup, Nieuport 11; US.DH4);
    a climb rate of 5 will gain max 3 pegs
    (eg Sop Strutter; Nieuport 16 w/rockets; Morane N; Albatros D.II; Ufag C.I; Gotha).
    a climb rates of 6 or more will only gain 2 pegs
    (eg RE8; DH2; Roland C.II; Fok E.III; Albatros C.III; Caproni Ca.3).
    Remembering that they can all climb a couple of pegs on their standard manoeuvres as well as the climb card in a game turn.

    **Expanding on Dive cards:
    Aircraft may dive from 2 to 5 pegs - recognised good divers (eg SPADs ;Phonix D.I; Pfalz's) may dive 6 pegs.
    Some aircraft may over-dive and by so doing will lose an extra 3 pegs on top of the max dive - so 8 or 9 pegs in total.
    Recognised weak divers (eg Alb D.III, Nieuports) can dive 5 pegs without trouble but they draw an B damage to represent potential for structural damage if they over-dive.

    Tokens For Multiplayer:
    A player plans his moves as usual, on the first card he places a token face down that signifies his intention to climb, dive or stay level, or that may have been imposed on his aircraft by previous firing action.
    On revealing the card declare the action taken and leave the token face up on the move card space until the phase end.
    After the phase is completed and before playing the second movement card he places a token as required above and so on until the turns end - when any token imposed on the players aircraft are placed ready for the next turn.

    Bombing:
    Standard bombing is carried out from minimum 9-12 pegs. Ground attack planes (schlachtstaffel) at lower levels. ie in a 4 peg bracket above a tripod's height.

    To counter this leave the medium heat ray template as is for targets at 9-12 pegs, then halve the range for targets above that. leave the heavy heat ray template as is for targets at 13-16 pegs, then halve the range for targets above that.
    Targets at lower heights feel the full force as normal (adjusted for Tripod height, see below).

    Optional Rules:

    Low Flying:
    When at 1 peg you can only fly straights.
    When at 2 pegs you can only fly straights, sideslips & curves (but not sharp turns)
    When at 3 pegs you can fly normally.
    If a pilot is wounded at 1 peg high he crashes immediately.

    Cover:
    Flying at the lowest peg levels, 1-2, may let you utilise cover from building and woodland markers. Squid Tripods may also benefit from this. You'd need to decide building/tree heights for markers before the game unless you're lucky enough to play with scenic topography.

    Shooting:
    Adjusted to different heights of Tripod involved eg Cuttlefish, 6 pegs high, Squid 2 pegs, Scarab & Locust 4 pegs.

    Shooting at a Cuttlefish:
    1-6 - As Normal Long range 1 card, short range 2 cards
    7-10 - Short range only, 1 card
    11-14 - No shooting

    Cuttlefish Heat Rays:
    Heavy: shoot half range for targets 15-22 pegs, long range at anything lower 1-14 pegs
    Medium: shoot half range for targets 7-10 pegs, long range at targets 1-6 pegs

    Shooting at a Squid:
    1-2 - As Normal Long range 1 card, short range 2 cards
    3-6 - Short range only, 1 card
    7-10 - No shooting

    Squid Heat Rays:
    Medium: shoot half range for targets 7-10 pegs, long range at targets 1-6 pegs

    Shooting at a Scarab: same as shooting at a Locust
    1-4 - As Normal Long range 1 card, short range 2 cards
    5-8 - Short range only, 1 card
    9-12 - No shooting

    Scarab Heat Ray:
    Heavy shoot half range for targets 13-20 pegs, long range at anything lower at 1-12 pegs.


    I have tested the rules with all known types of Tripod against scouts and they seem to work well. I found that scouts tend to level out at minimum heights that allow for max ranges against the Tripods. This means they can sometimes climb & dodge Black Smoke when deployed in front of them.
    CQB does occur but is not always deadly & does not occur on every overlap as the Tripod is often engaged on doing some other action.
    I selected the 'Destroy Objective' action as it has no action cost.

    Hope to follow with some pics:
    Last edited by flash; 06-30-2022 at 10:48. Reason: Noted action phase

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #2

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    Comparative sizes of Tripods with aircraft at 4 pegs.
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    Triplanes at max height for long range on Locust (1-4) & Cuttlefish (1-6)
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    Triplanes at max height for long range on Squid (1-2) & Scarab (1-4)
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    Triplanes at max height for short range on Locust (5-8) & Cuttlefish (7-10)
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    Triplanes at max height for short range on Squid (3-6) & Scarab (5-8)
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    Triplane survives a CQB with a Tripod as it overlaps.
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    On this occasion the Tripod is too busy recharging to be able to strike out at an overlaping machine
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    A Squid strikes back in this low level action
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    Even a Squid can prove dangerous at close quarters though
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    Or even at Smoke range !
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    Though sometimes you can pop over Black Smoke if you have a chance to climb a peg
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    Cuttlefish can be dangerous close up too
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    But can be busy doing other things when a close quarter opportunity arises - if you're lucky !
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    This came about because of an earlier action..
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    But even burning & damaged a Cuttlefish is dangerous..
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    Even if it's hand to hand skills are lacking
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    They are hard to kill.. this one mopped up all 4 objectives and made it back to the cylinder with 4 energy of 5 available.
    Damage, fire damage, energy damage below... 21 other cards, not shown, scored nothing !
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    Scarab's are lumbering beasties but almost as deadly
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    Even if too preoccupied when overlapped
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    They can prove very dangerous when they put their minds to it ! Both Tripes FRTB by the second objective !
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    Both Tripes were seen off in each game, FTRB-W or -E and no Tripods were lost..
    I controlled everything for purposes of testing so no AI involved. Objectives for Tripods were drawn blind at random and after Tripe's moves had been chosen.
    Last edited by flash; 01-31-2022 at 07:26.

    "He is wise who watches"

  3. #3

    Default

    Thanks for that, Dave.
    I have copied and pasted into a Word document for further examination and some testing of my own.

    Unfortunately my REP guns are jammed (as are my Heat Rays and Black Smoke dischargers.)

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Thanks for that, Dave.
    I have copied and pasted into a Word document for further examination and some testing of my own.
    I will put a set in the files once I have tidied it up a bit. Let us know how you get on with them. I've been playing them on and off since Thursday and they seem to work OK for scouts at least. If I have the energy I must do the tandems but have to put a game on at Entoyment Wednesday night.

    "He is wise who watches"

  5. #5

    Default

    Experiment with a tandem, edited highlights:

    'Strutter is running in at peg 9 to drop 65lb bomb; Scarab has dropped Black Smoke in front of the Tripe which cannot dodge it as sideslipping this movement but it escapes unscathed !
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    'Strutter scores a near miss (3 pts damage using my bombloads - may have to use D deck to get energy loss if shields hit?)
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    Having dropped t0 8 pegs and survived a close burst of heat ray (0,0) the gunner causes some serious damage
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    Staying on target is not easy but a second pass also bears fruit
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    Chasing the Scarab down to the next objective the Tripe leap frogs the Black Smoke and scores at close range whilst the 'Strutter scores a direct hit with it's last 65lb bomb - to no effect as it struck the shields.
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    The Scarab is harried from target to target by both machines, taking much damage. The 'Strutter ventures too close and sustains serious damage when he overlaps the Tripod. Unlike collision, count the special damage..!
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    Moments later the Tripe finishes off the Tripod
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    All in all this also worked very well, the tandem has to be at 9 pegs to bomb so can dodge Black Smoke and dip down a level to engage with guns at short range when close, dropping lower to peg 4 to engage at longer ranges after the bombs have gone. As I said, I think I will have to use D cards for bombs so as to get energy hits when the shields are struck or work out a cost for my bomb load out.

    PS. A quick dekko at the cards reveals that 6pts of damage takes 2 energy out of the shields so I may just add that to my bomb values.
    Last edited by flash; 09-23-2021 at 01:49.

    "He is wise who watches"

  6. #6

    Default

    Looks like a fun ruleset. You've got me considering how to make some 3d black smoke.

  7. #7

    Default

    Soft toy stuffing & black paint ? It would add to it.

    "He is wise who watches"



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