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Thread: Price Changes Coming

  1. #1

    Default Price Changes Coming

    Shapeways is revising all their pricing models. For the time being, they're holding steady the prices for existing products in existing shops. I'm not sure about new products in existing shops, but new products in new shops are definitely using the new pricing. Eventually I'm sure that the legacy products will be moved to the new pricing also, it's just a question of "when".

    Now, they say that "some prices will go up, some prices will go down". But based on historical changes and some early experiments by shop owners (by copying existing products to a new shop), that statement will still be true when 90% of products see an increase and 10% see a decrease. (In fact, it would be true if two products saw a decrease and 6 million saw an increase.)

    If you're interested in the details, the thread is here: https://www.shapeways.com/forum/t/pr...8/#post-228806

    When I get a chance, I plan to experiment by opening up a new throwaway shop and copying some existing designs over there to see how they're priced. I'll report back on the results here.

  2. #2

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    Thanks for the news Daryl. It'll be interesting to see the results of your new shop.

  3. #3

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    Thanks for keeping us updated Daryl :thumsup:

    "He is wise who watches"

  4. #4

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    It is not looking good.

    I copied several of my plane models to a new shop, from a small monoplane to a typical two-seater to a very large flying boat. While Fine Detail [FUD/FXD] prices were still in the same ballpark as before (for single-plane products), the prices for Versatile Plastic [WSF] (which most people prefer for gaming) and promising Professional Plastic [HP Black] will eventually be rising to double or triple their current prices.

    Shapeways has given no hint on when the legacy shops will move the new pricing model. Given that their goal is to improve profitability, I doubt the answer will be "never". Shop owners are lobbying for them to wait until after the holiday shopping season this year. On the other hand, if Shapeways is really losing money by working with the old pricing, it is in their best interest to make the transition as quick as possible.

    Now, in my personal opinion, I'm not sure they really understand their supply-demand curves, thinking "if we double the price we'll make twice as much profit!" The supply-demand curves probably aren't linear. For scale aeroplanes, as you raise the price linearly, the demand probably falls off much quicker.

    Let's hope they drag their feet when it comes to rolling out the new pricing to old shops.

  5. #5

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    This is very not good. I was browsing for Sci-fi hover tanks, and was appalled by the prices for even 6mm
    Might need to do an inventory, and get what is on the want list soonest
    Karl
    Last edited by Jager; 08-29-2018 at 14:22.
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  6. #6

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    Default

    Thanks for the heads up. Got my last order in now, wished I'd done it sooner though. Prices up slightly. But that's my Chinese and Japanese war stuff complete for now.

    Neil
    See you on the Dark Side......

  7. #7

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    A small monoplane, at 1:144, one of my cheapest models:

    Versatile Plastic, white, unpolished (was WSF): Old price $4.06; new price $12.50; change 308%.
    Fine Detail (was FUD): Old $9.14, New $12.50; 137%.
    Professional Plastic (was HP Black): Old $10.12, New $32.48; 321%.

    A medium-size 1:144 two-seater reconnaissance plane:

    VP: Old $7.06, New $15.00; 212%
    FD: Old $16.08; New $16.25; 101%
    PP: Old $16.12; New $40.15; 249%.

    Not on.

  8. #8

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    Shapeways could soon be out of business at this rate !

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #9

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    Try putting your Zeppelin framework into the new shop and see what happens....

  10. #10

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    http://3dprint-au.com/3d-printing/3d-printer-materials/

    Guarantees to beat current Shapeways quotes on WSF.

    General Price is 23c AUD per cubic centimetre of bounding box. About 17c US. That's apart from the guarantee.

  11. #11

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    I'd hoped to leave off any more Shapeways until after the New Year..............
    Now it looks like I'll have to get in soon.

  12. #12

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    This increases would price me out of the market. Better get my last order in soon.

  13. #13

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    Good thing the elves have a new addiction : )

  14. #14

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    Major price increase just as home printers are getting common. Sounds like a run at self destruction. The pattern makers may be better off renting access to their files on a monthly basis. Sounds like greed stepped in somewhere and someone is trying to maximize their profit.

  15. #15

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    I wonder how much a pattern run off at my local library would cost.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  16. #16

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    Looks like an order will go in this weekend. I hope any changes they make are reasonable and they don't end up shooting themselves in the foot.

    If they make the prices unreasonable maybe we can try to set up a deal directly with some of our designers for files that we could print ourselves. Just a thought....

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Looks like an order will go in this weekend. I hope any changes they make are reasonable and they don't end up shooting themselves in the foot.

    If they make the prices unreasonable maybe we can try to set up a deal directly with some of our designers for files that we could print ourselves. Just a thought....
    I made an order for 18 aircraft and pilots/gunners Thursday, I hope it is not my last.


    I saw a 15mm armored car made from a printer at a local university that would put any shape ways produced one to shame.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    Looks like an order will go in this weekend. I hope any changes they make are reasonable and they don't end up shooting themselves in the foot.
    If they make the prices unreasonable maybe we can try to set up a deal directly with some of our designers for files that we could print ourselves. Just a thought....
    I've tried printing a few of my biplane designs on a few friends' home printers, but I haven't had much success. First, the designs are meant to meet the minimums of Shapeways various printers (e.g. a 0.7mm minimum thickness), and that's not a good match for some home printers. Another problem is that home printers usually need a big mess of support struts to do "overhangs" -- like the lower wing to the floor and the upper wing to the lower, and it gets very messy removing those without cutting out a "real" strut.

    It might happen eventually, but it's not as easy as you might think.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    I've tried printing a few of my biplane designs on a few friends' home printers, but I haven't had much success. First, the designs are meant to meet the minimums of Shapeways various printers (e.g. a 0.7mm minimum thickness), and that's not a good match for some home printers. Another problem is that home printers usually need a big mess of support struts to do "overhangs" -- like the lower wing to the floor and the upper wing to the lower, and it gets very messy removing those without cutting out a "real" strut.

    It might happen eventually, but it's not as easy as you might think.
    I guess I was being overly optimistic. I don't have a home printer (yet) so don't know their capabilities.

  20. #20

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    Put a big order in last week; I guess I need to start painting all the other ones now.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  21. #21

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    I put in a hefty order yesterday. I noticed quite a few price hikes.

    With well over 500 entries (WWI) on the Shapeways list in the Hobby section it may be a while for me to update the prices!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teaticket View Post
    I put in a hefty order yesterday. I noticed quite a few price hikes.

    With well over 500 entries (WWI) on the Shapeways list in the Hobby section it may be a while for me to update the prices!
    Given that Shapeways reserves the right to change their pricing model at any time, and that they no longer even publish what that model is, I'd just give up on the price column and let people explore that aspect on their own.

  23. #23

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    I hate it when things go this way, Shapeways was a huge booster to my elves and me in the day. Been a while since I ordered anything now, having elves who like to scratch build helps, but now they have nearly finished everything built and pondered for both wars. Running on empty. Sad for all who are just getting into our obsession.

  24. #24

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    Not looking good - on that thread they're all talking about competitors for SW, it's been a while since I looked at the others.
    Any suggestions?

    Sculpteo.com has been mentioned a few times.


    BTW- Daryl, you need to subtract 100% from your calculations
    Fine Detail (was FUD): Old $9.14, New $12.50; 137% - is actually a 37% price increase - still not good

    Cheers,
    Paul

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by decapod View Post
    Not looking good - on that thread they're all talking about competitors for SW, it's been a while since I looked at the others.
    Any suggestions?

    Sculpteo.com has been mentioned a few times.


    BTW- Daryl, you need to subtract 100% from your calculations
    Fine Detail (was FUD): Old $9.14, New $12.50; 137% - is actually a 37% price increase - still not good

    Cheers,
    Paul
    Good point... I was doing it as "old price vs new price", rather than as an increase or decrease.

    i-materialize has really good pricing for the HP materials, but there are two problems: it's still in beta stage, and they require you to buy a test print of every model before you can add it to your public catalog. The latter is a pretty good policy to make sure their catalogs don't get clogged with never-printed junk, but it's not very practical when you have hundreds of models to move from Shapeways.

    scuplteo looks good on a technical basis but they have zero in the way of catalog or front-end.

    Zoe pointed out an Australian print service that looks good, but they unfortunately only ship to Australia/NZ.

    Let me know if you find one that looks promising.

    I've thought of using the WIKI as the common front end to all these model and we can point to the same model on various print services. But I'm lazy enough to wait until Shapeways makes their big pricing changes before looking hard at moving the entire catalog. There's still a chance they'll change their minds or come up with some alternative pricing.

  26. #26

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    More details from the CEO of Shapeways have arrived. All current products in current (grandfathered) shops will keep their current pricing until 2019. (I assume that means they'll cut over to the new pricing 1 Jan 2019.) Any new model uploaded after 22 Oct 2018 will also get the new pricing. (Again that implies any new model uploaded before then will get the old pricing, but that's not really clear. Nor is it clear whether the new pricing will affect models that need minor corrections because of Shapeways' bizarre tendency to suddenly flag something as unprintable when they've printed it a dozen times before.)

    The biggest hit to our favorite market (1:144 aeroplanes in the white plastic) is "Minimum Pricing – We have added minimum prices per part. Small parts require similar labor, processing, and handling as large parts and we need to adjust price to offset those costs." I think you can see that reflected in the price comparisons posted above where single-model aeroplane prints get hit by a bounding-box-based minimum price of $12.50 or $15.00.

    Will that result in moving prints to competitors? Or will designers need to pack their models in to two-packs and three-packs to keep them economical? Or will they just throw in the towel? I'm torn, myself.

  27. #27

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    $12.50 to $15.00 is Ares pricing.
    That comes with a stand and 20+/- cards and a painted model.
    I would be very hard pressed to pay that for a model that requires a lot of prep and then the additional costs for at least a stand.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post

    Will that result in moving prints to competitors? Or will designers need to pack their models in to two-packs and three-packs to keep them economical? Or will they just throw in the towel? I'm torn, myself.
    Please don't throw in the towel. All other options are good, but of course, having multiple copies increases file size, and there's quite a low limit on that.

    Have you had a look at http://3dprint-au.com/3d-printing/3d-printer-materials/ ? Perhaps getting together with other WWI 1/144 plane makers to create an alternate shop?

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    $12.50 to $15.00 is Ares pricing.
    That comes with a stand and 20+/- cards and a painted model.
    I would be very hard pressed to pay that for a model that requires a lot of prep and then the additional costs for at least a stand.
    But if you need a Pfalz D.XII or Fokker D.II, or even a Sopwith Pup, then 3rd party is your only option. Unless we can persuade Ares to vastly expand their range. WWII there's at least a reasonable range by AIM, and as long as you're not doing biplanes or floatplanes, resin models don't require much in the way of modelling skills and are quite tough.

  30. #30

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    Of course you are right, Zoe.
    Ares will never get us the more obscure models.
    Just venting I guess ....

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoe Brain View Post
    As far as I can tell, 3dprint-au only ships to Australia/NZ. Good for Down Under but we still need a solution for the rest of the world.

  32. #32

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    Good news and bad news: the good news is that Shapeways has come up with Version 2 of their new pricing, and it no longer imposes a $10-$15 minimum price for the 1:144 models most used by this community in Versatile Plastic (nee WSF). It's just a $5 minimum, regardless of model size. Only small monoplanes like the Fokker E.III would come in under $5.00 normally, so the new minimum pricing will not affect most miniatures. There are still changes to the formula, and prices will still be changing on January 1, probably somewhat upward on average. But not by massive increases like their Version 1 New Pricing.

    The bad news is that there is a new $7.50 minimum per "part" for Fine Detail plastic (nee FUD), which get used more often for smaller scale miniatures like 1:285 and 1:350. I know that's not a big consideration for most WoG players, so I guess you can consider this mostly good news.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReducedAirFact View Post
    The bad news is that there is a new $7.50 minimum per "part" for Fine Detail plastic (nee FUD), which get used more often for smaller scale miniatures like 1:285 and 1:350. I know that's not a big consideration for most WoG players, so I guess you can consider this mostly good news.
    Bad news for those of use that use those scales for targets
    So if there are multiple planes, trucks, etc. on a spue, is that 1 part or multiple parts?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Bad news for those of use that use those scales for targets
    So if there are multiple planes, trucks, etc. on a spue, is that 1 part or multiple parts?
    Karl
    I think if they're sprued they're considered one part (and therefore fall under a single $7.50). I don't think sprues will work for me, but I wonder if I can link two models together like a chain and have them count as one? Experiments to come...

  35. #35

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    Okay, new details: all grandfathered models will transition to Shapeways' new pricing on 1 Feb 2019. For most 1:144 models, it won't make a big difference: most will go up a bit (say, 10-20%), some will come down a bit. For smaller models (1:285 and 1:350, say) in detail plastic (FUD) with multiple planes per product, they'll need to be redesigned with sprues or links or they'll end up at $7.50 per part before markup (ouch). I plan to take a look at my smaller-scale models over the holiday break.

  36. #36

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    Thanks for the Heads up Daryl.

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  37. #37

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    Shapeways has announced they'll be turning off the grandfathered pricing on 4 Feb 2019. At that point, their new pricing will apply to all models, even ones that have been around for years. This applies to all shop owners on Shapeways.

    Putting aside my 1:285 line, that means an increase in 10-20% in model pricing for most models. There are a few outliers for which the price when down a little bit and even more where the price increased dramatically -- those will take closer examination. (I think some of them are color-dyed products like tents -- they increased the prices for dying quite a bit.) It's noticeable, but it's not the end of the world.

    The big headache is any product with multiple separate items in smooth-detail plastic (like most of my 1:285 line). Those will require sprueing or chain-linking to retain a reasonable price, so there is some redesign work ahead of me to make sure almost everything is considered a single-part model.

  38. #38

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    Again, thanks for the heads up Daryl. Have to check and see if I need any more models before 4th Feb.

  39. #39

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    Interesting - they're flipping the switch on the new prices in the next hour or two so I thought I'd better actually check my models !!!

    of the 1000 or so that appeared on my spreadsheet about 50 went down slightly- mostly smooth detail (FUD) aircraft
    250 went up by under a dollar - most of the common ones
    400 up from 1-5 dollars
    The remainder went up by lots - mostly the 1/285 and 1/350 multiple models in smooth detail materials and the larger scales.

    I'll sprue the common ones shortly to get the prices down but on the whole you shouldn't notice too much of a change.



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