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Thread: Luftwaffe Squadron Markings

  1. #1

    Default Luftwaffe Squadron Markings

    Hello, all!

    This time I'm trying to get a general idea of what the markings on the Stuka's and Bf 109's from the Battle of Britain era mean. The Stuka seems hard in particular, but I have a basic query for them -

    I wish to assign decals to one of my stukas to follow Major Helmuth Bode's Stuka of Stab III./Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 and assign decals to other stukas as if they were a part of his squadron, but which letter would have to change?

    I imagine the 'A' is a squadron identification marker (as in the Stuka decal aid given by Ares in the Stuka set, no two Stuka's share the same coloured letter (save Helmuth Bode's A sharing the green of Hauptmann Alfons Orthofer's, but with a white outline on the latter's) so that wouldn't need to change, but am I right in assuming this? I know the first two letters of the identification code are definitely based not on the squad, but it's the last two that are baffling me. Which differentiates pilots within the same squadron, and which differentiates squadrons within the one group of Stukas?

    Oh, and I don't understand the numbering and colour situation on the Bf 109's. What would the markings for the other members of White 13 and Yellow 5 look like?

    Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated!

  2. #2

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    Need to look up bomber codes to answer the Stuka question, unless someone beats me to it. But for 109s the Staffel dictated the colour of the codes:

    1st, 2nd and 3rd Staffels were in I Gruppe
    4th, 5th and 6th Staffels were in II Gruppe
    7th, 8th and 9th Staffels were in III Gruppe


    1st, 4th and 7th Staffels had white codes
    2nd, 5th and 8th Staffels had red or black codes
    3rd, 6th and 9th Staffels had yellow codes

    A Staffel could have any number of aircraft between 8 and 16, numerals rarely exceeded 16. So there is no hard and fast saying which numerals were in use in a Staffel at any one time, as the pesky Brits kept shooting down 109s in no particular numerical sequence. Early on the Staffelkapitan usually flew number '1' although by July/August '40 this was the exception rather than the rule.
    Last edited by Guntruck; 08-21-2018 at 05:21.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Need to look up bomber codes to answer the Stuka question, unless someone beats me to it. But for 109s the Staffel dictated the colour of the codes:

    1st, 2nd and 3rd Staffels were in I Gruppe and had white codes
    4th, 5th and 6th Staffels were in II Gruppe and had red or black codes
    7th, 8th and 9th Staffels were in III Gruppe and had yellow codes


    1st, 4th and 7th Staffels had white codes
    2nd, 5th and 8th Staffels had red or black codes
    3rd, 6th and 9th Staffels had yellow codes

    A Staffel could have any number of aircraft between 8 and 16, numerals rarely exceeded 16. So there is no hard and fast saying which numerals were in use in a Staffel at any one time, as the pesky Brits kept shooting down 109s in no particular numerical sequence. Early on the Staffelkapitan usually flew number '1' although by July/August '40 this was the exception rather than the rule.
    Thanks! This info will at least get my Bf 109's up in a nice squadron!

  4. #4

    Default

    OK, my first post contained an error that I thought I had corrected. See edited version above.
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  5. #5

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    For S2+AC, the “S2” would be the Geschwader code, the “A” is the individual aircraft code (and the one that would differ), and the last letter, “C”, refers to the Staffel (in this case, a Stab) which in turn links to the colour of the individual aircraft letter “A” and to some extent the spinner on the prop.

    Use the search above for “warm woollen mittens” for some useful links on this subject.

  6. #6

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    For fighters: Geschwader - Gruppe and Staffel Markings Check other pages on this part of the site for more info.

    For Stukas, this page might offer some history, and images of Ju.87s and their use over Britain: www.asisbiz.com - Ju.87 Main Page Scroll down to 'Lehrgeschwader 1 (St)LG1' for the start of the Battle of Britain units. There are specific planes mentioned, with codes.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #7

    Rabbit 3's Avatar Squadron Leader Scotland.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Need to look up bomber codes to answer the Stuka question, unless someone beats me to it. But for 109s the Staffel dictated the colour of the codes:

    1st, 2nd and 3rd Staffels were in I Gruppe
    4th, 5th and 6th Staffels were in II Gruppe
    7th, 8th and 9th Staffels were in III Gruppe


    1st, 4th and 7th Staffels had white codes
    2nd, 5th and 8th Staffels had red or black codes
    3rd, 6th and 9th Staffels had yellow codes

    A Staffel could have any number of aircraft between 8 and 16, numerals rarely exceeded 16. So there is no hard and fast saying which numerals were in use in a Staffel at any one time, as the pesky Brits kept shooting down 109s in no particular numerical sequence. Early on the Staffelkapitan usually flew number '1' although by July/August '40 this was the exception rather than the rule.
    To be honest Staffel numbers could go as high as 24 though its unlikely that there would ever be that number of aircraft in the unit.

  8. #8

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    I just finished building a spreadsheet on this... between the Starter and Singles, you have potentially THIRTY different Bf109's, and eight Stukas. (And while you can build multiple plausible Bf 109 Schwarmen, the Stukas are scattered across squadrons so badly you can't even build ONE correct Rotte!) I'm listing the codes for everything possible, including adding spare WGS402 decals to WGS003 minis.

    Ares SKU Option Aircraft Operator Unit C/N or Tac ID Pilot
    SKU Option Aircraft Unit Tactical ID Pilot Notes
    WGS402 1 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 1./JG2, Staffelkapitan White 1 Bertram, Otto (Oblt)
    WGS402 2 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 1./JG2 White 2 pilot unknown
    WGS402 3 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 1./JG2 White 7 pilot unknown
    WGS402 4 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 1./JG2 White 8 pilot unknown
    WGS402 5 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 1./JG2 White 9 pilot unknown
    WGS003 6 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 1./JG2 White 13 pilot unknown
    WGS402 7 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 3./JG2 Yellow 3 pilot unknown
    WGS003 8 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 3./JG2 Yellow 5 pilot unknown
    WGS402 9 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, 3./JG2 Yellow 14 pilot unknown
    WGS402 10 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", I./JG2, Stab T/O <* + pilot unknown Gruppe Technical Officer
    WGS402 11 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 4./JG2 White 1 + - pilot unknown
    WGS402 12 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 4./JG2 White 2 + - pilot unknown
    WGS402 13 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 4./JG2 White 7 + - pilot unknown
    WGS402 14 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 4./JG2 White 8 + - pilot unknown
    WGS402 15 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 4./JG2 White 9 + - pilot unknown
    WGS003 16 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 4./JG2 White 13 + - pilot unknown bar from 402A
    WGS402 17 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 6./JG2 Yellow 3 + - pilot unknown
    WGS402 18 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 6./JG2 Yellow 5 + - pilot unknown bar from 402A
    WGS402 19 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, 6./JG2 Yellow 14 + - pilot unknown
    WGS402 20 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", II./JG2, Stab T/O <* + - Dommaschk, Gunther (Oblt) II Gruppe T/O
    WGS402 21 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 7./JG2 White 1 + ~ pilot unknown
    WGS402 22 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 7./JG2 White 2 + ~ pilot unknown
    WGS402 23 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 7./JG2 White 7 + ~ pilot unknown
    WGS402 24 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 7./JG2 White 8 + ~ pilot unknown
    WGS402 25 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 7./JG2 White 9 + ~ pilot unknown
    WGS003 26 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 7./JG2 White 13 + ~ pilot unknown squiggle from 402A
    WGS402 27 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 9./JG2 Yellow 3 + ~
    WGS003 28 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 9./JG2 Yellow 5 + ~ squiggle from 402A
    WGS402 29 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, 9./JG2 Yellow 14 + ~
    WGS402 30 Bf109E JG2 "Richthofen", III./JG2, Stab T/O <* + ~
    WGS404 1 Ju87B StG76, I./StG76, 2./StG76 F1+AN / A [conjectural]
    WGS404 2 Ju87B StG76, I./StG76, 9./StG76 F1+DP / D pilot unknown
    WGS404 3 Ju87B StG76, III./StG76, Stab F1+AC / A Bode, Helmut (Maj.)
    WGS404 4 Ju87B StG77, I./StG77, 1./StG77 S2+AH Trogemann, Siegfried (Oblt.)
    WGS404 5 Ju87B StG77, II./StG77, 5./StG77 S2+AN / A pilot unknown
    WGS404 6 Ju87B StG77, II./StG77, 6./StG77 S2+DP [conjectural]
    WGS404 7 Ju87B StG77, II./StG77, Stab S2+AC Orthofer, Alfons (Hptmn.)
    WGS404 8 Ju87B StG77, III./StG77, 7./StG77 F1+AH [conjectural]
    Might want to double check some of these, particularly the Stukas with "F1" codes.
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)

  9. #9

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    Thanks DB; a greatly appreciated resource.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

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    My advice would be to focus Squadron Building efforts for the 109's on 1., 4. or 7./JG2--3., 6. and 9. you need a fill-in from Gruppe Stab to complete the Schwarm. IIRC, mixed-squadron flights were not exactly a common thing...
    Historical Consultant/Researcher, Wings and Sails lines - Unless stated otherwise, all comments are personal opinion only and NOT official Ares policy.
    Wings Checklists: WWI (down Navarre Nieuport, Ares Drachens) | WWII (complete)



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