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Thread: FW.200 Condor Stats

  1. #1

    Default FW.200 Condor Stats

    FW.200 stats

    Biggest problem: this is a slow bird. So we have to use Zoe Brain's card length only method. The closest deck is a T deck. The problem: this gives a slow speed that is too slow. In all honesty, with the small difference between the max speed and the max cruise (7.82cm to 7.28cm) and even to the max economical cruise (5.53cm or 254KmPH) means the T deck is too slow (4.9cm or 225KmPH). Given the normal operating methods of this plane (can't really change speed fast), maybe a 1 speed only deck

    Deck: T(Z)(b): Arrow length only, no 45 degree turns, reversals and remove the non-difficult SS. Optional house rule: Only 1 speed (fast) used.

    Hits: 41 (should be 46, but I'm reversing the Boeing bonus due to fragility).

    Ceiling: 7

    Climb: 9

    Guns: Front gun: standard front arc, low only; A/A with some C/A.
    Top turret, 360 level to high, with a smaller BS for the tail, say 5-7 O'clock level; A/A.
    Rear dorsal gun: 180 rear level w/ standard BS; 360 high; A/A.
    Ventral rear gun: 4-8 O,clock, low only; A/A.
    C-3s with the side guns......3-5 O'clock and 7-9 O'clock high to low; A/A each.


    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  2. #2

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    Found this image:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not sure what version of FW.200 this is, but the C-Stand bubble would indicate a much wider firing arc, and possibly on-level. This is considering the work I just did with the B-29, being able to fire both foward turrets to the front, on-level. Not all images I've found show this mount, so not sure how many would have it. The rear ventral gun, in any drawing or picture I could find didn't seem to have this bubble, so I am very willing to go with your rear arc.

    This video refers: You Tube - He.111 C-Stand
    If the gun is the 20mm, it may not have the flexibility of the MG, though. Need another video?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  3. #3

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    That's a C-5 version possibly WK Nr 0247 as this is what was stencilled under the nose. Here's a pic of the starboard side.

    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  4. #4

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    I can see the C-5 maybe having a shot at level, but given the narrowness of the gondola, I think standard arc is good.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  5. #5

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    Just to make sure we have most of the stats and card discussion in one place, I'm linking to the August Workbench thread, where a FW.200 card showed up.

    Start of the discussion: August Workbench - Post #16

    We might want to discuss dorsal and ventral gun positions, and possible arcs, on a separate thread? Since watching the videos on the He.111 gun positions, I'm questioning the limitations being put on arcs. Also, trying to find accurate arcs on the B-29 turrets was frustrating, as I couldn't find anything giving a depression, except photos showing the existence of limiters on the quad .50 Cal turret.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Note the square rod with the caster in the middle of the barrel grouping. This was installed to prevent the guns from hitting the plane. To the sides, the guns must have been able to fire below level, even if only a bit. So, one must assume that the other turrets could fire on level, meaning that ventral turrets could shoot level planes.

    Current rules seem to strictly divide ventral turrets into 'lower altitude only'. That may be an over simplified game mechanic, and not accurate.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 08-13-2018 at 13:19.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  6. #6

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    C-4, with 20mm forward dorsal turret and 20mm forward ventral turret. Five crew with a waist gunner handling arcs 2 and 3.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    [Edit: Corrected forward dorsal turret damage and waist gunner positions.]

    The rear dorsal turret is following the arc of the He.111, with the large tail blind spot. Although possible to fire forwards, the airstream would make any accuracy impossible.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 08-15-2018 at 22:00.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #7

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    I can agree with those arcs, but where did you find any Fw.200s with a 20mm dorsal turret gun? I have found no reference.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I can agree with those arcs, but where did you find any Fw.200s with a 20mm dorsal turret gun? I have found no reference.
    Karl
    I have found a few places where it mentions the forward dorsal turret being an HDL 151/20 turret. The drawing i'm using seems to have that pattern turret. And there is this site: Focke-Wulf FW.200C Condor Forward HDL-151 Turret

    And this note: Wikipedia - Kampfgeschwader 40 (bottom paragraph of the Focke-Wulf Variants).
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  9. #9

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    I have not found that the HDL 151 turret was explicitly armed with the MG 151/20 but rather with either the MG 151 15mm or the MG 131 13mm MG, both of which I would rate as
    A/A. Given that, I would rate the possibility of a given Fw.200 having the turret MG 151/20 as extremely rare. More suited for a munitions upgrade card then a standard card.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I have not found that the HDL 151 turret was explicitly armed with the MG 151/20 but rather with either the MG 151 15mm or the MG 131 13mm MG, both of which I would rate as
    A/A. Given that, I would rate the possibility of a given Fw.200 having the turret MG 151/20 as extremely rare. More suited for a munitions upgrade card then a standard card.
    Karl
    Karl,
    According to the books I can access in the Comox Air Force Library, you are correct. I even found an image showing the HDL 151 turret captioned with a description of the 15mm gun, which looks very much like the image I linked to above. So, the rating on the card should be for the 15mm, not a 20mm.

    I really like your idea of the Equipment Card thing, though. That could be considered for different versions, rather than doing up a bunch of cards. As long as the firing arcs stay the same.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    I really like your idea of the Equipment Card thing, though. That could be considered for different versions, rather than doing up a bunch of cards. As long as the firing arcs stay the same.
    Very useful for some of the German planes; Fw.190s had a slew of factory kits ( Umrüst-Bausätze factory-refit packages. U#) and field kits ( Rüstsatz field conversion kit R#).
    These made quite different planes, as you can see in the Unofficial listings for the Fw.190, Bf-109, and others.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Very useful for some of the German planes; Fw.190s had a slew of factory kits ( Umrüst-Bausätze factory-refit packages. U#) and field kits ( Rüstsatz field conversion kit R#).
    These made quite different planes, as you can see in the Unofficial listings for the Fw.190, Bf-109, and others.
    Karl
    I have already started an album for equipment cards: OldGuy59's WGS Equipment Cards

    Perhaps we should consider a collaboration? You indicate what airframes need base cards and associated equipment cards, and I do the cards? Then, everyone benefits. We could start with the FW.190's. From my point of view, as long as the airframe is the same, we just need drawings for those planes.

    Note: Today, I did scans for the FW.200 C-1 and C-8 at the Comox Air Force Museum library. Turrets and gun positions are a bit different.

    PS: The drawings:
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    The C-1 was mostly transport, with a C-Stand MG15 front dorsal position.

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    The C-8 was outfitted with surface-search radar and Henschel Hs 293 radio-guided missiles. Note the waist gun positions in the aft fuselage, indicated as MG 131 13mm, supposedly introduced on the C-3. FW.200 versions above C-1 had six crew, and above C-3 they had seven.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 08-15-2018 at 21:44.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Perhaps we should consider a collaboration? You indicate what airframes need base cards and associated equipment cards, and I do the cards? Then, everyone benefits. We could start with the FW.190's. From my point of view, as long as the airframe is the same, we just need drawings for those planes.
    I can start a list, sure. I am trying to deal with house issues from last July
    So my hobby time may be a bit limited. OTOH, distractions will be welcome, if only to
    keep my supply of hankies from running out.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    I can start a list, sure. I am trying to deal with house issues from last July
    So my hobby time may be a bit limited. OTOH, distractions will be welcome, if only to
    keep my supply of hankies from running out.
    Karl


    stay strong karl!!! if you ever need to talk drop me a pm!!!



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