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Thread: WGF/WGS - The Future

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Would you like to give it a go Phil. We can at least see where the preferences lie.
    Rob.

    i can start the thread but im afraid i havent got a clue how to do a poll lol.

  2. #102

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    Just put down the questions you want to ask and I will do the poll for you Phil.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Just put down the questions you want to ask and I will do the poll for you Phil.
    Rob.



    thanks!

  4. #104

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    " But its a niche game! It really is an extremely niche game" the thing is it doesnt have to be. its a really great game system with broad appeal. ive literally lost count the number of times ive had non historical, non miniatures and even non gamers express interest in the game. if only we had a game to provide them
    Yes, the success of War Thunder and IL-2 the video games would indicate a demand out there for gaming of this theme.

    but my buddy who owns the store i work at pointed out that if casual players know they can rely on my minis they wont buy their own.
    Its hard to say really. I know several players who rarely bring their own minis out to games, but have a load in their collection from sheer love of the aircraft.
    If you run the right event, with good incentives, you can get people to buy a mini as entry to the event. I haven't figured this one out perfectly yet but will tell you if I do! My instinct is that it would work best paired with a new release, as no one else there is going to have any of that plane yet.

    and more than once ive seen looks of frustration in the eyes of more regular players when ive told them that this particular or that particular mini isnt currently available. where to find a happy medium
    I admit, it is a crying shame the FW190's and Mustangs are already sold out. They did last 3 years though I believe.

    in any case whether i hear doom or gloom or buoyant optimism i will continue to plug away promoting the game i love at every turn. happy skies all!!!!
    This is the best thing about this game, and this forum! So many people will to keep supporting the game, even though its had years of struggles.

  5. #105

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    So sorry.. but as a consumer I just don't buy the MSRP argument. Availability of the RAP seems to have been what's killed this game in the hobby shops I frequent. In Canada we're used to being screwed six ways from Sunday on costs of just about everything, and ordering from the US for board game stuff here is more often than not a matter of availability than cost (it's often not any cheaper).
    So, they are different issues. The MSRP one is naturally irrelevant for you if its no cheaper to import from US. But it does exist for other countries, I cannot speak for Canada.

    The availability of RAP/and other main starter sets was the major problem, and you are referencing this. I am claiming that it has been resolved now, or at very least, It seems to have been resolved from my perspective. I could be wrong, but I know for a fact that the Battle of Britain Starter has been reprinted already, and there was no gap in availability for that. There was a 6 month gap in the availability in the WW1 RAP, but its been plugged now, we will see if it happens again. The Duel Packs was much shorter, the DVA's were only out of stock for a heartbeat, the Camel/DRI pack was out for some time, I cannot remember how long but I will guess 6 months max. Sails of Glory was much worse, that Starter Set was unavailable for longer, it felt like over a year.

    What I am arguing is that this change seems to have happened recently, in the last 12 months. We now have everything available, with more reprints happening as we speak, (SOG mat & accessories, original WOG mats)

    Look I could be wrong, it could happen again that there are large gaps, and I may just be observing a good patch where everything is in stock. However, I am currently interpreting it as very likely that they have taken the complaints seriously and have responded.

    This is a fine narrative for dudes like us who are really interested and/or already into the game, but it's completely unreasonable for anyone looking to get into the game unless they a real history buff.

    A customer looking to get into WoG is flat out not going to bother if a store tells them "well you have to learn when things are in stock". The immediate followup is "Well when will these be in stock?".

    "I don't know."

    Game over. They're just going to be "screw it" and go play X-Wing instead.
    I may have not been clear enough here. I do agree with you.
    Its not the customers responsibility, it is the retailers (so long as the information is available), and it can also be a responsibility anyone who is a passionate about the game can voluntarily take on, to assist newer players into the game. We can do this by focussing on playing public games that support in stock product.

  6. #106

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    I think if Keith (and others) could accept backorders a lot of the ‘out of stock’ issues could be resolved.
    The supply or cancel model is part of the problem.

  7. #107

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    Since so many have been posting here with a lot of ideas I thought I would post a link to the Suggestions thread started by Phillip:

    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...GS-suggestions

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    So, they are different issues. The MSRP one is naturally irrelevant for you if its no cheaper to import from US. But it does exist for other countries, I cannot speak for Canada.

    The availability of RAP/and other main starter sets was the major problem, and you are referencing this. I am claiming that it has been resolved now, or at very least, It seems to have been resolved from my perspective. I could be wrong, but I know for a fact that the Battle of Britain Starter has been reprinted already, and there was no gap in availability for that. There was a 6 month gap in the availability in the WW1 RAP, but its been plugged now, we will see if it happens again. The Duel Packs was much shorter, the DVA's were only out of stock for a heartbeat, the Camel/DRI pack was out for some time, I cannot remember how long but I will guess 6 months max. Sails of Glory was much worse, that Starter Set was unavailable for longer, it felt like over a year.

    What I am arguing is that this change seems to have happened recently, in the last 12 months. We now have everything available, with more reprints happening as we speak, (SOG mat & accessories, original WOG mats)

    Look I could be wrong, it could happen again that there are large gaps, and I may just be observing a good patch where everything is in stock. However, I am currently interpreting it as very likely that they have taken the complaints seriously and have responded.


    I may have not been clear enough here. I do agree with you.
    Its not the customers responsibility, it is the retailers (so long as the information is available), and it can also be a responsibility anyone who is a passionate about the game can voluntarily take on, to assist newer players into the game. We can do this by focussing on playing public games that support in stock product.
    If they availability is fixed the uphill battle we have here now is convincing hobby shops to carry the product again. Like I said, three of the big ones I go to purged their supply of WoG and I doubt they have intentions of re-stocking it. That might take a bit of intervention from Ares or something.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I think if Keith (and others) could accept backorders a lot of the ‘out of stock’ issues could be resolved.
    The supply or cancel model is part of the problem.
    This might work for most game publishers. But if Ares takes years to fulfill back-orders that might cause other problems for Keith.

  10. #110

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    I was thinking of the items that are in stock at Ares.
    If there are really as many as Evan says I think that would get items moving through the pipeline.
    Ares would have to have up-to-date inventory balances available for this to work.
    When the company I worked for sold product through Amazon I had to upload balances daily, and that was 10 years ago.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    I was thinking of the items that are in stock at Ares.
    If there are really as many as Evan says I think that would get items moving through the pipeline.
    Ares would have to have up-to-date inventory balances available for this to work.
    When the company I worked for sold product through Amazon I had to upload balances daily, and that was 10 years ago.
    There may well be planes in stock and available to be shipped to stores. The bigger question, though, is - are they planes that anyone wants? There are early war planes for BoB scenarios (minus German bombers, of course), and you can do some Mediterranean scenarios with Falcos and Gladiators. After that it starts to drop off quickly.

    The suggestion of trying to get new players interested and have them play with what's available rather than what they want is a non-starter. If there were a hole here or there with what's available, that would be one thing. In that case a new player has the hope that those holes will be plugged. But when almost all of the most well-known planes are not available (or were never in the game), and they are not even on the schedule to be reprinted or added - why would they want to get into the game? If you set up a scenario of Gladiators versus Falcos the average person will immediately see that and think "Biplanes - this is World War 1." Currently as far as we know there are no plans to reprint planes such as Mustangs, or introduce new fighters to the game. The next announced release is the bomber set announced for 3rd quarter 2019. Assuming they make that date, wouldn't that mean there is about a three-year span between releases of new planes? I would submit that going three years without releasing new product is the very definition of game that is not being supported.

    A final point to keep in mind that is at this point we're down to only 1 American fighter left available from on the primary market - the P-47. How long are those going to remain available? If those become depleted before new fighters or reprints are issued there will then be no US fighters available to buy except at inflated prices on the secondary market.

    If that happens is there really going to be any debate at that point whether a game about WWII air combat that has no US fighters available is attractive to new players?

  12. #112

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    The Battle of Britain Starter plus Squadron packs was released in March 2017. Where did you get the 3 years between releases? Its seemed to me that we have had 2x WW1 releases per year, and 1x WW2 release per year. I wish I had dates when everything was released..

    Without a doubt I would love Ares to double its release quota for the ww2 version of the game. I feel like since the BOB starter set there has been a resurgence of interest, and its ripe for the picking.

  13. #113

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    I was thinking of the items that are in stock at Ares.
    If there are really as many as Evan says I think that would get items moving through the pipeline.
    Pete some stores do do backorders, I don't as it opens up a risk that I might receive a backorder a week after something was sold out at the warehouse. Too much hassle on the inventory management. Keith may share the same reason?

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    ... I wish I had dates when everything was released..
    These may help:
    WW1 WOW & WOG Complete Listing Jun 2017: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=723

    World War II Product Contents March 2017: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=910

    "He is wise who watches"

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    The Battle of Britain Starter plus Squadron packs was released in March 2017. Where did you get the 3 years between releases? Its seemed to me that we have had 2x WW1 releases per year, and 1x WW2 release per year. I wish I had dates when everything was released..
    I was told that the Bf 109 and Spitfire in that set were already previously released. If that's the case, you can't really say they were new planes.

    EDIT: I just looked at the PDF file, and it seems the fighters in the BoB set were new releases. so I stand corrected.

    Still, a 3Q release for the bombers would mean over two years between new plane releases. I'd still argue that speaks loudly that the game is not very well supported.

  16. #116

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    These may help:
    WW1 WOW & WOG Complete Listing Jun 2017: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=723

    World War II Product Contents March 2017: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/do...do=file&id=910
    Thanks!! awesome resource.

    Yeah Bob, 2 years is too slow I agree. Out of curiosity you've mentioned the Q3 date a few times, where did you hear that?

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Thanks!! awesome resource.

    Yeah Bob, 2 years is too slow I agree. Out of curiosity you've mentioned the Q3 date a few times, where did you hear that?
    It was somewhere on this forum. My recollection was there was some discussion on here about the next fighter release that was going to include the Corsair and P-38 (and Me 410?) - then I read that it had been postponed and they were coming out with the bombers instead. I subsequently read (again, on this site) that this bomber set was scheduled for 3Q 2019. However, someone posted today that according to a video posted on YouTube after Origins that the Corsair and P-38 are coming out.

  18. #118

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    Here's the YouTube video where they are talking about new releases. Around the 9:20 mark they talk about WoG WW2. He specifically mentions the P-38 and F4U Corsair, with nothing coming out in 2018, hopefully 2019. So maybe this will be coming out before the bombers?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x98Ad0l0Sgs

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    But we need to also keep in mind how many inactive members we have - those who likely joined when they were regular players but have since moved on to other systems. The largest number of persons on the site at any one time peaked in 2012 - that may also be a telling statistic.
    Many of us are still here Carl. Although, I am not here daily, or even weekly, I still find the time to drop in a couple times a month, even if itís a quick flyby to see if there is anything new. There isnít much of course, but it is still fun to see the energy that many still have for the game. At this point, I personally feel that WGF/WGS are after thoughts for Ares. I donít have their profit sheets, so perhaps it is rightfully so. That being said, I will keep buying as long as they keep putting out new planes. However, this is what I hope we see before the game crashes and burns.

    WGF:
    Series IV reprint
    Campaign Book/box set
    New series that includes the Sopwith Pup.
    London gaming mat (mouse pad style)

    Sure, there other kites I would like to see, but I could live with what I have (which is at least one of everything put out by both Nexus and Ares including box sets, blister packs, cards, plane packs, rule books sets, etc etc etc) if necessary. I will never sell these planes unless it is under dire need, so I have years of fun to look forward to with the 100s of planes I already own, with many yet to hit the table top.

    WGS:
    The BoB bombers will be nice to have, although I canít say I am super excited for them
    Corsair and P-38
    Campaign Book/box set

    I have everything from Nexus and Ares for WGS too. That being said, they will never be able to do WW2 the proper justice it deserves. Unlike WWI, which with a few exceptions feels like a complete game when considering plane types, WW2 hasnít even scratched the surface of possibilities. I excepted it never would a couple years back. Although, itís disappointing, I canít comtrol the situation and have accepted it for what it is.

    For awhile, we were told to expect to see one reprint series and one new series a year, with perhaps a bonus release for WGF. Apparently, the sales werenít there, as that didnít last long at all. The waits have gotten longer and the quality has dipped a bit. WGS has always been sporadic at best. I think we have had one new fighter series in the last four years and none are on the horizon as far as I know. Waiting a whole other year for a Q3 release (if we are lucky)of the BoB bombers is a joke and a slap in the face honestly. Whatever.....I refer to my original thoughts that I will buy what they release, but I have given up hope that Ares will be able to make WGF/WGS the games they could have been.

    I also have to wonder how long Ares holds the rights for these games and if Andrea would consider looking at other gaming companies to produce his game. He obviously has so many ideas left and aircraft for both world wars to explore. Heck, we donít even have torpedo bombing rules for WGS yet. I digress, although Carl is right and interest appears to have waned, many of us are still here hoping to glean whatever scraps we can....

  20. #120

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    So, I still have no reason to believe the bombers are coming Q3 2019. I watched that video Bob, and I am not convinced that the Ares rep was accurate in this case. I do have other sources still indicating the bombers coming prior to P-38's and Corsairs, my interpretation was that they would be with us Q4 2018 or Q1 2019. My source is direct, but it was not an 'announcement' so could still be subject to change, as always.

    I think its also worth considering how much harder it is to keep a 'full game' of WW2 aviation in comparison to WW1 in stock at all times.

    - The war was 6 years as opposed to 4.
    - There were many more distinct 'theatres' in WW2.
    - Aviation played a huge role in all 6 years of WW2, whereas it only really came into play in 1915 in WW1. Someone more researched than me could really flesh these last 2 points out for us if they had time!

    I think we have 2 problems with Ares production schedule. 1 is that releases don't happen often enough, no argument from me there.
    Another is that they don't produce enough, but thats not really fair to critique, as only they can know what is sustainable.
    so the 2nd real problem would be in my opinion the scattered approach to different theatres. Imagine if Ares dedicated a 2 year period to releasing only items relevant to a specific time era and location? Perhaps for 3-4 releases in a row?

    Naturally many would be annoyed as it would never be everyone's favourite theatre, but so long as they start with the big famous battles first it would work fine. Naturally they are doing that with the BOB right now. THEN they could do reprints of identical paint schemes of items that are out of stock, rather than requiring a whole new design phase for new paint schemes.

    As much as I love the diverse paint schemes, this would ensure a 2-4 year period where that era is fully supported.

    Then they could switch to the pacific for 3-4 releases. Then the next in line, and do occasional reprints of items that are out of stock.

    I know it all sounds a bit 'easy to say' but the reason I say it anyway is to assist us in our campaigning for change.

    I wonder.

    If we could all unite here on the forum via some form of message, with the idea of seasons of releases on a single theme instead of scattergun releases.

    I think one of the problems Ares has been dealing with is us all asking for our own favourite theatre to be fully supported. In my opinion, it would be a real fail if the P38 and Corsair are released before the BOB bombers. Ares would feel they were responding to their customers, but in doing so they would damage the momentum of the BOB starter set which is assisting new people getting into the game. (I sell starter sets regularly in small numbers here in Australia)

    The P-38's and Corsairs would work perfectly as a release prior to a new Pacific era themed starter set in my opinion.

    What do you guys think about the idea of advocating for Ares to stick to 1 theatre at a time, as a unified community voice, rather than us asking for our own personal favourites that are desperately needed?

  21. #121

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    A two year absence in a theatre is too long.

    I'd be fine if Ares didn't even create any new aircraft. Our problem right now is getting people into the hobby. The lack of overall availability and support from Ares is the problem here, not variety of aircraft. A two year hiatus in a theatre won't solve this problem.

  22. #122

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    This was posted in the Tripods forum, for those of you who don't visit there.
    Here is the actual communication from Ares.

    People of the Earth!
    July is almost at the end and the project has been moving forward - but we're still not at the point to press the "go" button on the production.
    A little more than one week ago (9 days, precisely), we finally got all the samples for the airplane models (after a mishap with the first sending of the Nieuport 16, which arrived in worse shape than after a crash landing).
    The samples included all the "series 1" models (Fokker Triplane, Camel, Albatros D.V, SPAD XIII) - both those which are a part of this project, and the reprints; the two Nieuport 16s; and even the Drachens (not a part of this project, but I guess many of you are interested to know they are coming back before the end of the year).
    Most of the airplane samples were as good as we wanted them to be, but we had to reject 5 of them, as the colors, or the definition of the decals, or other details, still did not match our expectations. Even one of the two Ni.16 (Ball) while overall good, had decals which were too glossy, and we had to reject that sample. We also had to reject both Drachens, untfortunately.
    We provided detailed feedback about our findings to the factory, and they are now at work to prepare new samples.
    Before we can start the production, we will continue to work together with our suppliers to get the quality our models exactly where we (and you) want them to be, so please be patient.
    Next week, I will be at GenCon, but the office staff and the factory will continue to work on the pre-production of the models. If you are at the "best 4 days in gaming", you are welcome to come by and say hello at our booth #335 and in Events Hall A - and join us for a game of Tripods & Triplanes with our prototype.
    Thanks for your patience and continued support,
    Roberto/Ares

  23. #123

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    I hope at least the WW2 bombers can be released before Christmas.

  24. #124

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    See, this is what I mean. Anyone notice a theme here?

    Name:  oos.jpg
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    (5 stores, 3 in Canada, 2 in the USA)

    Compare that to any of the Attack Wing games or any minis game by FF. As long as this crap continues, this game isn't going to grow.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenalfonzo View Post
    [....]and even the Drachens (not a part of this project, but I guess many of you are interested to know they are coming back before the end of the year).
    ... and they'll probably do a single production run with enough to satisfy 2% of the demand, then we won't see them again for 5 years.
    Last edited by kalnaren; 08-06-2018 at 07:56.

  25. #125

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    but... some of those items ARE available at US wholesalers, 4 of the retailers you've screen shotted have items there out of stock that are still available, that they simply haven't reordered. Top right all those are gone, but,
    they are Spad XIII's and Camels which are getting reprinted as we speak, and you CAN still get them today in the duel packs.

    We know we want more of each item manufactured. But we also know that Ares is unlikely to due to the upfront capital required, and the risk they take on the slow sellers. Like every 2 seater ever.

    The reality is that the retailers are in this partly to make their bread and butter. They aren't going to tie up capital with items that will sit on shelves for months/years just as much as Ares games isn't going to.

    Its a niche game.

    YES it would DEFINITELY grow if all the stores could keep large amounts of stock of all items on the shelves at all times. But NO business would make a profit doing this. None. If they could, Miniature Market would be doing it. They have the economy of scale, they could afford to keep lots of things in stock. but they don't, they let items lapse all the time.

    I am striving to be in a position to be able to keep everything in stock, for as long as possible. I've been building my business since 2012 and still don't have the capacity yet to do so.

    We have to realise there are at least 177 unique items in the 2 Wings of Glory ranges now!

    I've invested in Sails of Glory too (another 57 unique items) and am keeping most in stock, but I am still no where near breakeven on that. It'll take a while.

    Its a niche game, with a large and growing range. My advice to passionate supporters of the game is to buy the planes you want within 24 months of them being released. If they are super in demand, do it faster. (Gotha's sold out faster i think)
    AND buy an extra for your mates who you think might want to get into the game in the future. If you can't afford that (most can't) well thats the exact same reason retailers are struggling to keep it on their shelves!

    We need a different understanding of this type of game. We can't compare it to FFG. Its an alive game, with new releases scheduled. Axis and Allies miniatures games can only dream of what Ares is doing for Wings of Glory.

    Now hurry up and print those B.O.B bombers ARES GAMES!!!

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    but... some of those items ARE available at US wholesalers, 4 of the retailers you've screen shotted have items there out of stock that are still available, that they simply haven't reordered. Top right all those are gone, but,
    they are Spad XIII's and Camels which are getting reprinted as we speak, and you CAN still get them today in the duel packs.

    We know we want more of each item manufactured. But we also know that Ares is unlikely to due to the upfront capital required, and the risk they take on the slow sellers. Like every 2 seater ever.

    The reality is that the retailers are in this partly to make their bread and butter. They aren't going to tie up capital with items that will sit on shelves for months/years just as much as Ares games isn't going to.
    I don't disagree per se, but you know how much I care about that as a consumer?

    Zero.

    All I see I product I want that I can't get. I don't care that it's in stock in a warehouse. That helps me absolutely none.

    Its a niche game.

    YES it would DEFINITELY grow if all the stores could keep large amounts of stock of all items on the shelves at all times. But NO business would make a profit doing this. None. If they could, Miniature Market would be doing it. They have the economy of scale, they could afford to keep lots of things in stock. but they don't, they let items lapse all the time.

    I am striving to be in a position to be able to keep everything in stock, for as long as possible. I've been building my business since 2012 and still don't have the capacity yet to do so.

    We have to realise there are at least 177 unique items in the 2 Wings of Glory ranges now!
    I don't expect everything I want to be in stock all the time. But if I can't get something that's "sitting in a warehouse" for over a year there's a serious problem. And again, as a consumer, it's only my problem insofar as I can't get the product I want.

    I know this is a very niche game. You know what's going to keep it a very niche game? New players not being able to get things. Some stores may be able to order stuff, but newbies can only ask for it if they know it exists. This game, as it sits right now, has a massive exposure problem. As in there is none.

    Its a niche game, with a large and growing range. My advice to passionate supporters of the game is to buy the planes you want within 24 months of them being released. If they are super in demand, do it faster. (Gotha's sold out faster i think)
    Passionate supporters aren't the problem. New people wanting to get into the hobby are.

    AND buy an extra for your mates who you think might want to get into the game in the future.
    LOL.

    I really hope you're not serious about this. Once again, putting availability issues on the consumer, rather every else in the entire chain.

    "I better buy 5 of these planes in case my buddies want them in the near future".

    Gimmi a break. This might make some sense for people already in the game but once again, this does absolutely jack to help expand the hobby and get new players into it. In fact, given the current state of things, if you have existing players hoarding stuff "just in case" that just makes things worse, not better, as far as availability is concerned, which again makes it harder for new people to get into it.

    I don't expect this game to directly compete with anything that has a Trek or Star Wars license.. but it doesn't need to. But I still go back to what I said in previous posts:

    1. New people need to know this game exists.
    2. New people need to be able to easily get planes.

    Right now both of those are a problem.
    Last edited by kalnaren; 08-06-2018 at 14:36. Reason: Clarity.

  27. #127

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    But can't you just buy it on ebay? I assume Canada's eBay access is similar to whats available in the US. You have the pickings of every store on there. If something is available at the warehouses it will be on eBay for less than MSRP price. As an Australian I have bought before from eBay USA if I can't get it on eBay Australia.

  28. #128

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    You going to tell a new player that wants to get into the game to go to ebay and try and find something?

    Try that with any other game they don't already play and see how well it works.

  29. #129

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    Sadly, little to nothing we say or do will fix how Ares handles the Wings and Sails of Glory games. Our biggest voice is our wallet. If we don’t purchase the new product eventually the game will cease production. If we buy the products as they release it in large enough numbers, new products will continue to trickle out. No amount of prodding, whining, threatening, pleading, or pressure will change how Ares produces this game. I think we all wish product was released quicker, but it is very apparent that Ares lacks the deep pockets of Fantasy Flight Games and product will be sporadic at best and annually if we are lucky. I use to complain viciously about the lack of constant new products and now I have just simply concluded that this game isn’t one that will pump out product after product like X-wing does. Between both world wars, I have hundreds of official Wings of War/Glory models to enjoy for the rest of my life. I wills always hope for more and buy them when they release new products, but I have accepted what I now consider to be fact that this game will never be much more than it is now in the world of table-top gaming. It’s a tragedy in my mind, but I can’t do anything to change it. Furthermore, I don’t think Ares is trying to suppress the game in any way. Manufacturing in China is getting harder to do, more expensive, and more competitive for slots in the factories. Consequently, the game takes longer to produce. It is unpleasant to say the least. I feel like the huge potential of WWII has been barely touched. WWI is still missing a few key planes, but with each release gets closer and closer towards being able to represent the vast majority of the most impactful aircraft of the war. Someday soon, I hope to see an official Ares Sopwith Pup finally release, which is one of the last major planes of WWI not yet in the game. How the game has gone this long without a Pup in it, but includes a Snipe is beyond me.

    So in conclusion, you want a peak at the future of WGF/WGS do you? Well you don’t have to look very far in my opinion, as you are already living it.

  30. #130

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    But can't you just buy it on ebay? I assume Canada's eBay access is similar to whats available in the US. You have the pickings of every store on there. If something is available at the warehouses it will be on eBay for less than MSRP price. As an Australian I have bought before from eBay USA if I can't get it on eBay Australia.


    ebays sales do nothing to put capital into ares pocket. nor is it likely expanding the game as only die hard fans will pay what minis often go for on ebay.

  32. #132

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    The way I see it is that Ares have run WoG and SoG this way so far and won't change the way it's run in the future.
    I trawl ebay daily and buy what is sensibly priced on Amazon when it appears. There a a couple of online stores that sell WoG in England that still have limited stock (although no ability to get new stock at all from what I hear) and almost none that sell any SoG.
    With things as they are retail wise in the UK (no supplier to feed stores), the game is going to slowly starve of new blood. Ebay prices will continue to rise as the planes become rarer and stock online and in stores will run out.
    Not a good situation at all, but what can be done? Not a lot at all.
    I just keep plugging away at expanding my collection until stock runs out or ebay becomes too expensive.
    I don't envy anyone trying to get into the games from scratch.

  33. #133

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    ebays sales do nothing to put capital into ares pocket. nor is it likely expanding the game as only die hard fans will pay what minis often go for on ebay.
    We are talking about the minis that are still available at the warehouse. 100% of those are available on eBay bellow MSRP. Not the out of production ones.

    You going to tell a new player that wants to get into the game to go to ebay and try and find something?
    Yes. Absolutely. Because its there, and its cheap, (below MSRP) and it will come delivered to your door. If the retailers can't afford to keep a full line on their shelves, ill recommend where people can still find it. Because thats something we all agree on! Helping new players find planes affordably and easily.

    Pricing happens 2 distinct ways on eBay. Items that ARE available get driven DOWN in price.
    Items that are NOT available get driven UP in price.
    Last edited by Xen; 08-07-2018 at 03:44.

  34. #134

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    I don't envy anyone trying to get into the games from scratch.
    When I first joined this game in 2011/2012, the only items you could find for sale at MSRP were Breguets, Ufag's, Snipes, and DH4's. Oh and Jentsch's DVa that stuck around a while too.

    Today there are at least 119 unique Wings of Glory items still available. It has literally never ever been better than this in terms of the amount of product at MSRP available.

    It sounds like UK is in a particularly dire situation though, and I understand its not ideal to import from online shops overseas. So I'm not saying its the best its ever been in UK, it sounds like its in a real rough patch. But in terms of the games general availability in their main warehouse in USA, it is.

  35. #135

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    Please do not interpret my comments to mean I think its the best supported in retail stores than ever before, its not. It got damaged in Australia badly by an era of Starter sets being unavailable. But its well on its way to recovery here. Sounds like Canada and UK are still struggling.

    To access the benefits of availability that I am advocating as possible, one has to be willing to utilise internet shopping. Some people hate doing that, and for those people, this game is going to feel in trouble. Not denying this.

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    ebays sales do nothing to put capital into ares pocket. nor is it likely expanding the game as only die hard fans will pay what minis often go for on ebay.
    Exactly. Was just trolling ebay myself, and there's an LVR Dridecker listed for $112 yankfranks. Any suggestion that a new player can "just go to ebay" is patently absurd.

  37. #137

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    Thats not fair. We were distinctly discussing items that are available at Ares. These items ARE on eBay, and they ARE below MSRP, and theres a potential 119 of them.

  38. #138

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    Another option for those who don't like eBay is Thewarstore.com they've got stacks in stock and are cheap. 110 items currently in stock, based in USA.
    https://www.thewarstore.com/cgi-thew...s%20of%20glory

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Thats not fair. We were distinctly discussing items that are available at Ares. These items ARE on eBay, and they ARE below MSRP, and theres a potential 119 of them.
    I was not discussing items that are available. In fact, other than the RAP, I picked the screenshots I took at random.

    And again, I don't care what's sitting in the Ares warehouse. I can't purchase those unless I hunt for them, and a new player isn't going to hunt.

    I have never once seen, ever, 119 aircraft available anywhere. The fact that Ares made them at some point some time in the past is completely irrelevant. If I can't get them from a retailer, I can't get them.

    Maybe the limited availability of a selection of planes is enough for new people. I have no idea.

    You also keep bringing up MSRP... Question here, have you ever found that to be an issue with this game? WoG is the cheapest minitures game I have... and in Canuckistan it's not unusual to pay $15-20 retail for a scout or $30 for a special pack.

  40. #140

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    There's 61 total WoF available at The War Store. Outside of the beginner packs, no Camels, no Drideckers, no D.VIIs, one SPAD.

    Basically very little anyone with light interest in the subject matter would be familiar with.

    People like us who hunt down the more obscure stuff are either already invested or very interested in the subject matter.

    It would be like trying to get someone into X-Wing when they can only find Starchasers and Howlrunners in abundance.

    New players may like some of these more obscure planes if they actually know the game exists... and that's where marketing comes in.

    The intro pack problem seems to have been fixed, and that's a good first step. But IMO the need to constantly hunt stuff down from all corners of the internet also needs to be fixed, right along with people actually being made aware of this game's existence.
    Last edited by kalnaren; 08-07-2018 at 09:27.

  41. #141

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    This part of the statement has got me down: "The samples included all the "series 1" models (Fokker Triplane, Camel, Albatros D.V, SPAD XIII) - both those which are a part of this project, and the reprints;..."

    So I guess the only new schemes will come in the Tripods sets. Bummer that the other two will be repeat paintschemes. There goes my purchases.

  42. #142

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    Hey Cody ill send you a message regarding your MSRP question, I don't totally understand and don't want to bog down the thread.
    Cheers mate

  43. #143

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    Someone posted on the Wings of Glory FB group that he asked about new Wings of Glory stuff at Gen Con and was told by people working the Ares booth (quoting him) "Don't expect anything for 12 months."

    This is how you ensure your game is a niche game.

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsalt View Post
    Someone posted on the Wings of Glory FB group that he asked about new Wings of Glory stuff at Gen Con and was told by people working the Ares booth (quoting him) "Don't expect anything for 12 months."
    Say it isn't so, I really want the WW2 bombers this year

  45. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Say it isn't so, I really want the WW2 bombers this year
    All I can tell you is what he said. I didn't go to Gen Con myself. I had heard at Origins not to expect anything this year for WWII, though they were still hopeful to get T and T out. It sounds like that has changed as well.

  46. #146

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    Let me add this comment to the thread as well. The one thing I absolutely will forgive Ares for is if the delays in getting new product out are to ensure high quality. I got into Axis & allies Miniatures when it first came out, and the quality of the pieces in that game took a real nosedive after the initial set (among many, many other problems). That game was a perfect example of "screw the public, release it anyway" mentality. The quality of some their stuff would have been laughable until you realized that you had forked over cash for it. I'd much rather wait an extra 6 or 12 months if that means better quality.

    I do still, however, question their thought process regarding not reprinting basic aircraft needed to run WWII battles.

  47. #147

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    I think we need a way to campaign for better support on WGS. Gonna be hard to beat their sales data though.

    Anyway, here is a summary of their official dates. Nothing past October, but Tripods is almost here.

    Releasing
    This Month
    ARTG003 - Master of the Galaxy
    GRPR105 Sword & Sorcery - Samyria Hero Pack
    GRPR112 Sword & Sorcery - Kroghan Hero Pack

    Releasing
    September 2018
    GRPR103 Sword & Sorcery - Darkness Falls
    GRPR111 Sword & Sorcery - Metal Coins Accessory Pack
    SGN501A - Sails Of Glory – Game Mat Accessory (Reprint)
    SGN502A - Sails Of Glory – Terrain Pack – Coasts and Shoals Accessory (Reprint)
    SGN503A - Sails Of Glory – Terrain Pack – Coastal Batteries Accessory (Reprint)
    SGN505A - Sails Of Glory – Additional Ship Mats (Set of 4) Accessory (Reprint)
    WGA502A/B/C – Wings of Glory Game Mats (Reprint)
    WOTR009 - War of the Ring - Warriors of Middle-earth (expansion)(Reprint)

    Releasing
    October 2018
    WGF800A - Tripods & Triplanes Starter Set
    EN_TWM02 - This War of Mine The Board Game - Tales from the Ruined City
    (Expansion)

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    I think we need a way to campaign for better support on WGS. Gonna be hard to beat their sales data though.

    Anyway, here is a summary of their official dates. Nothing past October, but Tripods is almost here.

    Releasing
    This Month
    ARTG003 - Master of the Galaxy
    GRPR105 Sword & Sorcery - Samyria Hero Pack
    GRPR112 Sword & Sorcery - Kroghan Hero Pack

    Releasing
    September 2018
    GRPR103 Sword & Sorcery - Darkness Falls
    GRPR111 Sword & Sorcery - Metal Coins Accessory Pack
    SGN501A - Sails Of Glory – Game Mat Accessory (Reprint)
    SGN502A - Sails Of Glory – Terrain Pack – Coasts and Shoals Accessory (Reprint)
    SGN503A - Sails Of Glory – Terrain Pack – Coastal Batteries Accessory (Reprint)
    SGN505A - Sails Of Glory – Additional Ship Mats (Set of 4) Accessory (Reprint)
    WGA502A/B/C – Wings of Glory Game Mats (Reprint)
    WOTR009 - War of the Ring - Warriors of Middle-earth (expansion)(Reprint)

    Releasing
    October 2018
    WGF800A - Tripods & Triplanes Starter Set
    EN_TWM02 - This War of Mine The Board Game - Tales from the Ruined City
    (Expansion)


    how do wings of glory sales stack up against their other product lines?

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    I think we need a way to campaign for better support on WGS. Gonna be hard to beat their sales data though.
    I thought the Battle of Britain release sold well?

    It's a self fulfilling prophecy - WGS is not selling as well as WGF so we will release fewer miniatures - which could very well be the reason why it is currently not as popular in the first place. Chicken or egg territory right here.

  50. #150

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    Hey Carl, I was implying that anything we say to Ares about increasing production will be subject to their sales data. Yes the Battle of Britain Starter sold well from my perspective.

    Yep you might be right there about the chicken and egg!

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