Option for DH2
Squadron 24 RFC Lt Alan Machin Wilkinson achieved 10 of his victories while flying an Airco D.H.2. Having equipped it with two Lewis guns, he was eventually ordered to remove one of them.
Interesting, I must try a DH2 with twin guns (A deck) the next time I play the 24th.
I'd have to search, but IIRC, the second gun caused handling issues.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
A 2 gun DH2 will be a deadly fellow to face.
I would imagine a second gun would have an effect on it's performance? I think it has a wide side slip. Maybe remove the wide side slip?
if it degraded performance enough that he was ordered to remove it, it must have affected it quite a bit.
10 victories, yes, but most were with the standard single gun.Originally Posted by john snelling
I too read somewhere that the twin gun weight caused a drop in performance and manoeuvrability.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
"Wilkie's Bus" DH.2 (5966) according to his wiki entry
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_W..._(RAF_officer)
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
True, any extra weight effects an aircraft performance, especially with low hp engines.
A Lewis gun weighed 28 lbs. Did it carry extra magazines perhaps but perhaps not.
Do we take into account different weights of pilots? Some did weigh more than 28 lbs more than average pilot.
(the average weight of a British recruit was 112 lbs).
Lionel Rees was a big man over 6' and a DH2 pilot with 2 victories in that aircraft.
The A gun N17 still uses the I deck
The A gun HD1 still uses the F deck
the A gun Tripe still uses the U deck
Last edited by john snelling; 06-27-2018 at 17:39.
The amount of ammo carried was low as the ammo drums for the lewis were big and heavy.True, any extra weight effects an aircraft performance, especially with low hp engines.
A Lewis gun weighed 28 lbs. Did it carry extra magazines perhaps but perhaps not.
Do we take into account different weights of pilots? Some did weigh more than 28 lbs more than average pilot.
(the average weight of a British recruit was 112 lbs).
Lionel Rees was a big man over 6' and a DH2 pilot with 2 victories in that aircraft.
The A gun N17 still uses the I deck
The A gun HD1 still uses the F deck
the A gun Tripe still uses the U deck
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/product?productid=3038
"Other identifying features of early production aircraft are the small fairings at the rear of the nacelle, external magazine storage for 4x 47 round magazines, a single tube pitot head and the rudder control cable pulleys positioned slightly further forward in the nacelle..."
A total of 5 drums with 47 rounds each with 2 guns is not a great combo.
Some extra drums plus a mount for the extra drums plus a mount for the extra machine gun all adds up.
The underpowered DH2 (with a 100hp engine) could barely maintain height in a turn.
It would not take much to adversely affect its performance.
[Added]
If I were to play a DH2 I think it would be necessary to either use rules for limited ammo or significantly nerf its performance.
Didnt they have a 97 round magazine too at one point. Maybe that was used for the double gun?
Yes I believe a 97 round drum was used at a later point with the DH2
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1435
But the fundamental question still remains how many of these double drums could a DH2 carry.He had first fitted a locking device to the Lewis on the DH2 to try to get some extra stability for aiming. Higher Authority forbade it. 'The gun must be able to be swivelled upwards as it is on the Nieuports'.... apparently....,*despite the different relative positions of the pilot and gun. Such is military genius!!
So, in a further effort to increase the efficiency of firing, he decided that at least doubling the ammo may help.
Under the supervision of an engineer who had joined up as an air mechanic (W.L. French) he joined two 47 mags.
In May 1916 he called at the War Office whilst on leave and asked them to approve them. They did so and set about manufacture. The drums were sent to 24 Sqn in July for testing and after a few alterations suggested and sketched by Hawker, they went into general use.
In addition to the increased capacity, they also sported a canvas handle on the top, to aid in changing them (whilst wearing thick gloves, flying an unstable aircraft and fighting an 80mph slipstream).
Each double drum is in effect twice as heavy.
So if a DH2 carried 5 single that implies no more than 3 double.
What I'm getting at is that doubling the guns and doubling the drums is not a great move if it results in quickly running out of ammo.
All of this, though, depends on how many double drums the DH2 could in actual terms carry without significant loss of performance.
Doubling the capacity of a mag may have less to do with the amount of ammo and more to do with the number of times you have to change mags to get through the allotted allowance. ie as the quote says, to increase the efficiency of firing.
Many guns carried 250 belts, maybe the thinking was that that was about what you'd need rather than what the plane can carry. Five 47 rd pan mags being as near 250 as you could get with the Lewis would then be the considered 'load'.
Using double stacked pans would be more efficient and even using just three would give you a 20% capacity increase over the five singles and necessitate only two mag changes instead of four. The Osprey Duel (42) DH2 v Alb D.II mentions 'Double drums were stored internally due to their larger sizes'. Looking at SIM images & models suggest one on and three spares stored in/around the dash such as it was.
From what I read in the Profile books the double mounted guns were "officially frowned upon", as was fixing the gun to fire forward, there's no mention of it affecting performance. As previously mentioned - Military Genius at work !
Sapiens qui vigilat "He is wise who watches"
It seems like the RFC was very rigid and frowned upon field modifications by pilots and mechanics. Meanwhile the most stringent regime socially, Austria-Hungaria allowed field modifications and actually embraced and utilized them. Irony!
The second Lewis gun could be a candidate for an Experimental Weapon Equipment card.
I like that!
Yeh, who needs booster pack for such things; WE MAKE OUR OWN!!
(well, Mike does it for us)
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
That is a fact!!!Yeh, who needs booster pack for such things; WE MAKE OUR OWN!!
(well, Mike does it for us
Karl
It isn't solely a matter of extra weight; it's how that weight is distributed.
Adding an extra gun on the centre of the top wing, as near as dammit directly over the centre of gravity of the aircraft and only around two feet away from it, will not produce the same level of change to flight characteristics as the addition of the second gun in the extreme front of the nose, about as far away from the centre of gravity as it can get (tail empennage excluded, of course!).
Doubling the weight of gun(s) on the extreme front of the nacelle will produce a very nose-heavy plane when compared to the single gun version - it would probably fly quite differently.
I would support an Experimental Weapon Card for this plane, if it changed all the sideslips to steep and increased the climb rate by 1.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
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