Any news about breaking wold records in GWF, WGS and SoG during Origins '18? I have not noticed any news...
World Records during Origins?
Any news about breaking wold records in GWF, WGS and SoG during Origins '18? I have not noticed any news...
heres a link to my album for the ww1 record breaker. ill have the album for ww2 later as uploading pics is rather time consuming since i can only do 4 at a time.
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/al...p?albumid=4192
Yes, Phillip, your albums were the reason why I askedHow many players per game?
Excellent pics PhilOriginally Posted by milcoll73
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
No danger of breaking any world records but it was fun to partake.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
Unfortunately, the WRB games didn't break any records, Daniel...if I remember correctly, the WWI game had 16 players, the WW2 had 14, and the Sails had about the same. I'm not sure why the WR idea falls flat at Origins. It is definitely something to discuss and try and remedy.
All the best,
Matt
i suspect some of the reasons to be lack of advertising, and players in this area being a bit spoiled as far as opportunity to play due to the high density of players in the birthplace of aviation. i know of quite a few players in the general area that i rarely if ever see at origins.
heres the ww2 record breaker
https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/al...p?albumid=4194
That is a sad news. Origins is the only place where you can play with 100+ participants. At least for WGS it should be relatively easy to break the record. Maybe next year
Might also be the additional cost.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
It is kind of a tough row to hoe, I think.... For a Wings or Sails gamer, there is the cost of getting in to Origins - $60 for a full show badge, $25 for a single day badge (if you buy in advance). So the person who wants to only come to play Wings or Sails has the badge cost plus the cost of each game - 2-hour games cost $2, while 3 or 4-hour games are $4. The WRB events cost $12 - $2 for the game and $10 to cover the cost of the plane or ship you play with and then take away with you when you are done. In addition, all the other costs surrounding the convention add up quickly - hotels and travel and food and parking and....
To get folks already at Origins to get involved in playing in one of the WRB, they would also have to 'buy in' to the game with $12 worth of tokens (Origins calls them 'generics' - they look like poker chips and are $2 each). I am not sure that many folks would drop $12 to get into a game and walk away with an Ares miniature that they might have no interest in, just to play in a WRB game...most folks at Origins have already earmarked their $$$ for things they are interested in.
More advertising might help, especially to target Wings and Sails players in the area, but as Phillip mentions, there are a lot of folks who play the game who live in the area who do not attend Origins for whatever reasons - cost, travel issues, lack of interest - you name it: I'm sure there are lots of reasons why people don't go.
Even the Wings and Sails players who do attend Origins do not all play in the WRB events - they are doing other things at the convention that interest them. They may not want the plane or ship that is the 'prize' for playing, they may be sleeping in after a long night of gaming or drinking, or they may have other games planned that conflict. Again, numerous reasons abound.
Origins is not a spontaneous player-friendly venue where 'carnival barkers' can round up loose con-goers and wrangle them into playing Wings or Sails for two hours just to break a record. This could only happen if the company sponsoring the event would 'eat' the cost ($2 for the game and $$ for however much they decide to charge for the miniature).
Perhaps there is a way around these issues - I don't mean to suggest there isn't!It is simply a greater challenge than it might seem on the surface.
All the best,
Matt
Last edited by matt56; 06-23-2018 at 03:20.
Matt brings up fair points
I wonder if a Unique aircraft JUST used for the WRB game might draw more players. One German, and 1 British Sculpt found no where else would be a heck of a draw. Even the marginal players would see it as E-Bay bait that would draw a good price and jump in.
I was thinking about a special adition: gold sticker on a wing with tiny "World Record"
What is a "WRB" game?
World Record Break?
Yes, World Record Breaker. Sadly for the last two Origins we didn't ever come close.World Record Break?
I like the idea of some sort of sticker on the plane, Daniel - it would be easy to do and would differentiate that plane from others in your collection. It would be very easy to apply such a sticker. And it could go on any plane or ship...
All the best,
Matt
As a first timer at Origins, I think part of the problem is that the convention is so large with so many different things to do, you just can't get to everything!!! I came to origins primarily to play WoG, but found other games that I am interested in there that I don't see at smaller Cons, so I tried to fit them in as well. Fortunately, schedules allowed me to play additional WoG scenarios, so I am blessed with meeting our members that were there!!!
Maybe between the cost of things for the convention, and the fact that the local Ohio group has so many venues near by to play at is a big reason why people don't show up!!! I'm afraid I don't have an answer to this dilemma either!!!
From what has been said here it is clear that advertising, time and cost may have an impact on the draw to attempt this world record.
Firstly I'd suggest a goal so lets get the number we're shooting for out there - what is the current WR ? 100 ?
Make it a 1 hour game so the non-Wog participants don't have to commit too much of their precious time to the game
A thought occurs that while you have them at the table - why not roll them into WW2 & SoG WR attempts too ? Make it a 3 in 1 challenge. May need two hour slot for that. After all once you've played a game turn is that not a record done ?
Is it worth approaching Ares to reduce the cost of the model buy in further in this case ?
Anyway, there's some ideas to chew on for the committee - I hope they can pull this off.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
I have already spoken with Ares briefly on the subject. Lowering the cost to $5 was an idea on the table if we do this in the future. We will see how things progress once I have had a chance to discuss things with them in the near future.
Ken Head - "The Cowman"
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams
Something I ran into at some conventions is getting "local" players to come attend games as coaches or hosts to grow the hobby. The answer was I don't want to spend money coming to a convention to play, I already spend money on the hobby.
So, a convention fee, and a game fee on top of that, would really deter the individuals I have run across. People have to be pretty committed to supporting the game. Note the people on this Forum. They prep planes and scenarios, along with maps and special terrain, drive/fly continent spanning distances, and pay for hotels and meals, on top of the hobby expenses.
I don't know what Ares did to get the first World Record game, but it wasn't at a convention, and may not have had an entrance fee. Two big plusses there! How many rookies were recruited by fellow players? There couldn't have been 100 dedicated players in that one Italian town that decided to show up and take part.
Just getting people I know play Wings of Glory here in Comox/Courtenay to come to our annual convention is a bust. Perhaps if I was giving away free planes, I could get some to fork out a convention entrance fee. I don't expect it would, unfortunately.
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
I believe that the first "record game" of WGF was 100 players... a businessman used it as a team building experience somewhere out west and gave each player the mini they played with. Bribes, and threat of job loss are powerful motivators! LOL! I think the standing record of over 100 players (not sure of the exact number) was achieved by a group in Italy. I have no idea on exact details of that one...
Ken Head - "The Cowman"
You're only given a little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it. Robin Williams
i think the price drop to $5 is a good idea. that would be $7 overall to play. when you look at $12 thats as much or more than many minis available retail. so whats the incentive? especially if youve already got the minis being used. i also like the idea of the WRB sticker to add to the mini.
Our conventions in Australia charge players entering tournaments but all participation games are free. Perhaps that is a model that could be tried elsewhere as a means of getting more starters for events such as a Wings of Glory tournament. The issue we have in Australia is our overall small gamer community in a population of 25 million. Most gamers also play more than one system, so at conventions many of my usual Wings crowd play 40K or Flames of War tournaments. If I want to run a world record attempt it would have to be a stand alone job.
Last edited by Carl_Brisgamer; 06-24-2018 at 20:07.
Maybe Andrea would be willing to tell us how they did it in Italy.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
There is this article on the Ares website. http://www.aresgames.eu/21332
If the World Record for WGS is only 23, we might even be able to beat it at Doncaster.
Go for it!
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
WGS is the easiest one. We played 22 in Prague 2015 (Andrzej's game).
Seems doable with either John Biggles game or Strangely Brown's.
Rob.
"Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."
The Origin's invitational tops out at 24, and we fill each year, so even that beats the WRBs there
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
Ooops! So, the WGS World Record is in dispute?The Origin's invitational tops out at 24, and we fill each year, so even that beats the WRBs there
Karl
Can not Origin's records of attendance be used for validation?
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
Nice photos. And yet, not a single one of the winner (cough cough)…
Fantastic idea. It wouldn't even have to be a unique sculpt. Just a unique paint job as a show-only special. Maybe offer the players the opportunity to buy both sides. Anything left after the match for sale on a first-come basis. If, for example, you offered the choice between a desert-painted 109 and an Australian-painted Spitfire I bet you'd have guys falling all over themselves to enter the WRB event.
I've seen this myself. Last year I went back to Columbus in September for the Buckeye Gamefest (a much smaller convention - about 1500 or so attendees) and posted on the BGIF FB page and the Aerial wargaming website to see if anyone wanted to meet me for some games and no one was interested. I think players who get to play regularly are much less motivated to pay to go to a convention in their hometown. In my situation I get very few opportunities to play, so I'm fairly well motivated to go to conventions.
I personally wouldn't mind $12 to play if it were for either an aircraft I didn't have or it were a unique piece, such as a convention-only repaint. The WWI event was fine for me since I didn't have either plane. On the other hand, I already have 2 each of all of the dive bombers used in the WW2, so I was kind of "meh" about any of them. If you went the repaint route and they were only available by playing in the event I bet you'd have a lot of guys who wanted to play.
Nice photos. And yet, not a single one of the winner (cough cough)…
i guess my ears were still ringing lol
I do not like this idea. Why? Because Brumowski and Galland. Two paints that (probably) would not been never repeaten are incredibly expensive. I even can not imagine the price of special sculpts, not just paints. Improve the existing ones, make them special, but not in this way.
I too am opposed to unique models because so many players cannot attend these special events.
I imagine a special sculpt would be out of the question due to the cost involved. I can't argue with your point that a repaint would likely end up being hard or impossible to find, and pricey on the secondary market. Another hurdle would be deciding which conventions are worthy of having such a repaint versus the ones that aren't. On the other hand, if you want to drive up participation at conventions you have to do something that's going to attract players. An event where you pay $12 and keep a miniature that you probably already have isn't going to do that.
As I've thought about it, I think the better course would probably be to just leave things as they are. Ares has much bigger problems, such as their lack of support for the WW2 game to get involved in concerns of a few of us about events at conventions. I'd much rather they do something about the distribution problems they think they don't have that affects the game 365 days a year than to focus too much energy on events that take up a few days each year.
There are, already, some special aircraft out there. Nexus produced some gold, silver, and bronze, WWI planes as special event prizes a few years ago (Link: Silver Promo Wings of War WW1 Planes).
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
It is obvious you are a true veteran, Mike - these are pretty old, from the prehistory of our game
PS: Here is a full story about silver and gold SPAD, Camel and Albatross from Andrea's perspective: https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...l=1#post318887
The more this discussion proceeds, the more I like the idea of some sort of WRB adhesive sticker to apply to the airplane wing or the ship's base. It would be something the organizer could receive 'officially' from Ares (or its representative) and then apply to each plane or ship that is opened for play. Or perhaps the sticker could be given to the player to apply or not apply, depending on his personal taste?
The way Ares US runs the WRB, for example, is that, to use the WWI version at Origins this year, they bring out several boxes of unopened planes - this year they used the Albatros and Strutter 2-seaters that came out most recently. Each player chooses the plane he or she wants to use, opens the box, unwraps the movement deck, puts together the pegs and base, and gets ready to fly. And the game commences, every pilot for himself. Shot-down pilots can respawn up to about halfway through the game if they desire, and the game gradually collapses to the center as pilots are eliminated.
A sticker would be very easy for a participant to apply - or for the organizer to apply if that was necessary. The sticker could be given to the player when his plane is chosen. I am sure it would be much cheaper and quicker to produce something to apply rather than produce a special plane or ship or even a repaint of some sort.
Advertising the WRB is certainly key to success, as is the general format of the convention where it is being held. And if cost is an issue for potential participants, there's that factor to weigh into the mix... As I mentioned earlier in this thread, all three of those play a role (I think) at Origins...
All the best,
Matt
Last edited by matt56; 06-27-2018 at 15:25.
And how about a "kills decal" you can put on the fighter if you get a kill? Or something unique for winning? I won the WWII event this year, and would have loved something specific to that instead of the generic gift certificate from Ares.
During my Origins game I was using simple badges that our army use for Non-commisional officers. Andrzej got 4 of them with the rank of "rotný" (corporal).
I was honored to win 5 of them myself. A great touch you added to your game Daniel. I will always cherish them and remember the game flown over your home town.During my Origins game I was using simple badges that our army use for Non-commisional officers. Andrzej got 4 of them with the rank of "rotný" (corporal).
Last edited by Teaticket; 06-27-2018 at 10:10.
how about something like little plastic pilots wings to affix to our badge holders or something?
I am honored, Peter, really!
I had a good feeling from this game despite the fact that the dark side had not sharp teeth and it was an American day. There were the best people that I could wish around the table
I am honored, Peter, really!
I had a good feeling from this game despite the fact that the dark side had not sharp teeth and it was an American day. There were the best people that I could wish around the table
i still have my one (i just couldnt seal the deal and do enough damage lol) proudly affixed to the side of my BGIF dawn patrol 2014 hat!
Nice! I am surprised you both remember and still have your ranks
Phillip, you have rank of "svobodník" - first not-just-common-soldierMy father was somewhere between you and Andrzej during his (father's) 2-years military service around 1979.
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