I have some sad news...

[The Cowman]

I must announce some sad news (for me). We were recently informed by Ares that they will only be able to provide a 10’ by 30’ space for us at Origins this year. It is my understanding that this is no different than what they were able to provide last year. Matt has informed me that he intends to ask for 5’x 6’ tables instead of the 5’x 8’ that we have used in years prior (except for last year) My understanding of last year’s situation was that the small space was NOT what Ares requested, and that this year would be different.

Unfortunately, what this means for me is that the space provided will not be able to be made readily ADA accessible, even with the smaller tables. For this reason, I will not be attending this year and will be requesting a refund for my events as well. I have put a large amount of my time, energy, and funds since 2011 into making our events at Origins successful. Even with Matt gathering and submitting our events to GAMA this year, I still have chosen to participate as much as I can in the planning and promotion of our events. I can not justify putting any more energy or money into this year, while feeling like I am being treated like a “persona non grata” simply because I am required to use a wheelchair at the convention.

I am unsure at this time why our request for a space able to accommodate our need for the larger tables (at minimum we need at least two of the tables to be 8’ long to comfortable seat the 12 and 14 player events) was not considered. More importantly I am unsure as to why the request for our space to be wheelchair accessible was ignored. A sufficient aisleway around the tables (and the chairs) is necessary for a wheelchair-bound person to get through.

I have started the process of seeking legal council in this matter. From conversations I have had so far, I have solid reason to submit a complaint. I am unsure of where this will lead me in the future as far as our hobby is concerned. I admit that I am very frustrated and disappointed currently, as I was looking forward to your company. I am more than willing to discuss my reasons for this in more detail with you each one on one if you so desire!

I do hope that Origins is a joy for each of you this year!

[clipper1801]

Very sad news Ken, I am behind you 100%. Mrs Clipper has been in a wheelchair for many years and loves to attend such events. We have noticed the narrowing of the asiles these past years, it seems no one bothers to measure for proper space. Your committment and service will be missed.

[Rebel]

I think I am correct in saying that providing wheelchair access is mandatory in the UK backed up by statute. Is this not the case in the US?
I would certainly go on the attack on the discrimination which seems to be the case.
Sorry to hear of these problems Ken, like Mrs Clipper my wife can not get about without her mobility scooter and that requires more space than a Wheelchair. Despite the above noted law we still have problems in some places.

[tikkifriend]

A total lack of awareness and callous disregard for people with limited mobility. Is there a possibility of bringing this to the attention of a wider audience so as to highlight this matter ? The local press , local disability groups perhaps?

[OldGuy59]

This may be an issue with the venue, or a monetary decision by the Origins organization, based on space. How much does it cost to rent the space, and how much booth/table revenue is lost allowing for accessibility. There may also be a space limitation on how many demos/vendors are trying to shoehorn their way into the convention. Ares (and Ares-supported games) may be at their maximum space allowable, such that they don't take up more space than anyone else. This is all speculation on my part.

It may be a decision on the part of Ares and the game hosts as to how the allotted space is used, and not strictly an accessibility issue. Ares and their supporters may have to make some hard decisions on how many tables get put in their space, thus allowing for accessibility within their alloted terrain. Success sometimes causes problems, not solutions.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Paul has summed it up Ken! Callous disregard for your Human Rights my friend. This should be taken to the highest level not only for your own sake but for all those people who are in a similar situation. Speaking on behalf of the Partially sighted members of the community it is not just the wheelchair bound who have to combat narrow aisles. What are the Fire regs in the US. vis width of access routes? I hope that you are successful in getting this abject decision overturned.

I do feel that we of the Drome, as a group, should take under consideration if we wish to support, and, by omission, thus give our consent to such a deplorable situation?
Rob.

[OldGuy59]

Paul has summed it up Ken! Callous disregard for your Human Rights my friend. This should be taken to the highest level not only for your own sake but for all those people who are in a similar situation. Speaking on behalf of the Partially sighted members of the community it is not just the wheelchair bound who have to combat narrow aisles. What are the Fire regs in the US. vis width of access routes? I hope that you are successful in getting this abject decision overturned.

I do feel that we of the Drome, as a group, should take under consideration if we wish to support, and, by omission, thus give our consent to such a deplorable situation?
Rob.

Link: The City of Columbus - ADA Coordinator

Note: This may not apply, but at least the City of Columbus has some regard for Accessibility. The Origins venue may fall under private usage, and not civic/public legislation.

[Jager]

Ken;
I am saddened that you will not be there this year. Be assured, there will be discussion about this. If you need to talk, please call.
Karl

[OldGuy59]

Greater Columbus Convention Center Event Planning Guide

ColumbusConventions.com - Event Planners page

Section 6: Additional Information (Page 20 of the guide)

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) was enacted to ensure that people with disabilities are afforded the same opportunities to participate in American society as all other people.
-The ADA is legislation designed to protect the civil rights of people who have physical or mental disabilities.
-As a “Public Assembly Facility,” the GCCC is responsible for permanent building access accommodations such as(but not limited to) wheelchair ramps, elevator standards, door-width standards, parking facilities and restroomaccessibility.
-Show management is responsible for all non-permanent accessibility requirements such as (but not limited to) seating accessibility, auxiliary aids for the visually impaired, hearing impaired, and mobility impaired attendees.
-Systems for the hearing impaired are available at our facility. Please see your Event Manager for more information.

So, the space issue is in Origins Management's lap, if I read this correctly.

[BobP]

I remember you being there the year I attended so I don't understand why they can't accommodate you this time. Your efforts are much appreciated buy all of us here so know that you are a highly honored member of this group.

[tikkifriend]

So, the space issue is in Origins Management's lap, if I read this correctly.

So any complaints against this reduction of aisle size should go through this channel then ?

As Rob has pointed out surely if a wheelchair cannot get through between the tables elderly and younger members of the public (prams pushchairs and ambulators) would find it difficult to move to safety.
Does this pose a health and safety issue should an incident occur? I am sure it does
While they might not take the moral high ground re disability the thought of angry parents and elderly might move their "moral conscience" a tad.

Don't let the price of a m² of floorspace take away yours and others right to attend the Con

[OldGuy59]

So, the space issue is in Origins Management's lap, if I read this correctly.

So any complaints against this reduction of aisle size should go through this channel then ?

Well, it appears to me that the Columbus Convention Centre is placing responsibility for accessibility on the 'Show management'. I would suspect that complaints would go to Origins Management first. Then, if not satisfied, to the Convention Centre, and then to the City of Columbus' ADA Coordinator?

PS: I don't know if there is any reduction of aisle size, just that a request for more space (allowing for bigger aisles) than last year wasn't approved.

[tikkifriend]

PS: I don't know if there is any reduction of aisle size, just that a request for more space (allowing for bigger aisles) than last year wasn't approved.

Whatever the result is the same

[matt56]

I think it is probably my fault for scheduling too many games into a space for which we had no size parameters. Had we known when we started that the space would only be 10 by 30, we could have used fewer tables and scheduled fewer games and allowed for more space to move around. But then we would have had fewer perks to share with our GMs - free rooms and free GM badges based on our number of games and number of participants expected. There is no cost to most GMs for rooms or GM badges for the weekend - eight of our GMs are staying gratis at the hotel for running games, and nine of them have their badge cost covered - again, based on the number of games being run and number of participants expected.

I think it will turn out that the convention organizers do provide for disabled accessibility within mandated parameters, as Mike points out. That puts the onus on the individual manufacturer or retailer to structure his/her booth to facilitate accessibility. And I am sure Ares has a monetary limitation on booth size, which in turn directly impacts how the flow in the booth can be. Were Ares to occupy the entire 20 by 30 booth space, I am sure that there would be plenty of room. Combining our group with them might be the fly in the ointment here, particularly given the number of games we are used to running, as well as the number that Ares wants us to run...

Perhaps in future we need to become our own Buckeye Gamers in Flight entity again and have our own larger location - while supporting Ares in whatever they are doing 'from afar'. In prior years we would go to their booth and demo games of Wings and Sails - their booth was in the dealers area, while ours was in the gaming area.

It is definitely an unfortunate situation!

All the best,
Matt

[Captain Knowitall]

Greater Columbus Convention Center Event Planning Guide

ColumbusConventions.com - Event Planners page



So, the space issue is in Origins Management's lap, if I read this correctly.

It would appear to be so!
Ken, I am saddened to hear about this. I hope you are able to get through to someone at Origins regarding this issue!

[gully_raker]

I sincerely hope you can rectify this problem Ken.
You deserve to be there at Origins.

[matt56]

I just looked at the Origins schedule of games, and Wednesday and Sunday we should not be 'cramped' with games; we certainly do not need all of the tables we requested. On Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, we have only a need for a fourth table for one game each day...perhaps if we were to drop one game each of those days, we could pare down to three Wings/Sails tables and open up space to make it accessible...?

Just an idea at this point...

All the best,
Matt

[Shadowcat]

Fully feel for you Ken, Hope things get setteled as our group are all getting up there and this WILL become more of an issue in the near future. Better to nail it down now before things go high order later.

[Teaticket]

I just looked at the Origins schedule of games, and Wednesday and Sunday we should not be 'cramped' with games; we certainly do not need all of the tables we requested. On Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, we have only a need for a fourth table for one game each day...perhaps if we were to drop one game each of those days, we could pare down to three Wings/Sails tables and open up space to make it accessible...?

Just an idea at this point...

All the best,
Matt

Off the top of my hairless head, maybe cut down on the max player limit? We have a number of games with 14 players. Cut them back to 10 or 12? If you have the footprint you can get an idea of how many people we can reasonably fit in the area.

[Naharaht]

I am saddened to hear of this problem. You have my sympathies. My mother has a 'wider than average' wheelchair, which causes problems in shops with narrow aisles, and there are some buildings in which it is too wide to pass through the doorways.

[Guntruck]

Given the time, effort and hard cash you have expended over the years for Origins, this is a bit of a kick in the teeth, and I am sorry you have found yourself in this position Ken. What happens if a wheelchair using member of the public turns up after booking one of your games. Do they have to be turned away?

I hope that between the Buckeye gamers and Origins organisers you can find a satisfactory solution to all this.

[flash]

Bugger ! I was really looking forward to meeting 'Ken the Cowman' but fully appreciate his position and the action he feels he has to take, not only for himself but for others. It's a very disappointing situation he has been put in and I wish him all the best when it comes to sorting things out.
On the point of table size it should be noted that a 5' x 6' table won't accommodate 3 standard mats side by side without large overhangs at each end - that may affect some games including mine.

[milcoll73]

im really sorry to hear this ken. i hope something can be worked out to resolve this unfortunate situation.

[matt56]

Peter - any changes we were to make to either game size (number of players) or number of games offered would affect the compensation rate, perhaps not drastically enough to hurt BGiF and its hangers-on, but it does change things...I will run the figures and see what's what.

Dave - we should be okay with the smaller tables...we used them last year and they were satisfactory - not a nice as the larger ones, but we were able to cope with the change and run some great games. I think your game will be fine.

All the best,
Matt

[Teaticket]

Peter - any changes we were to make to either game size (number of players) or number of games offered would affect the compensation rate, perhaps not drastically enough to hurt BGiF and its hangers-on, but it does change things...I will run the figures and see what's what.

Dave - we should be okay with the smaller tables...we used them last year and they were satisfactory - not a nice as the larger ones, but we were able to cope with the change and run some great games. I think your game will be fine.

All the best,
Matt

Ah, forgot about their compensation calculations. Dropping a game or two would do the same. Going to be tight if we sell out!

[matt56]

So I've looked again at the schedule - by my reckoning, the three games taking up that fourth table on Thu/Fri/Sat would cause us to lose one compensation 'package'. That means we would go from 9 to 8 - it would not affect room slots, since we only need 8 for our GMs, but we would lose 1 free GM badge, but that could be had at half-price by using our BGiF club discount on badges for members...

I imagine those three different GMs running those games might be disappointed in having that game dropped from the schedule, but I would hope they'd see the (potential) wisdom in perhaps taking this course of action...

Peter - you are still right about the space being 'full' depending on how many sign up for games. But if we can adapt the space and take a little 'hit' in the process for the greater good (because I can't imagine us getting more/a different space), then perhaps we can find a solution to the problem we face.

All the best,
Matt

[Teaticket]

As I am not a BGiF member I'll volunteer to drop a game and any compensation.

Let me know if you will be going this route so I can make arrangements.

[rhodie80]

I would like everyone on this thread to please allow Matt time to work out this situation. Matt and I worked very hard to save this event from complete extinction last year. We have worked together to make it a nice event for everyone this year.

Origins and the Greater Columbus Convention center has been nothing but hospitable to our group and all it's members. I have seen the floor layout for the hall and it does allow for the ADA act guidelines. I am a sixth grade teacher and am familiar with these guidelines.

Normally bed space for Game Masters is figured at four people to a room. You may also be placed in one of several hotels in the Columbus area. When Matt informed Origins that we had two members that are in motorized wheel chairs they bent over backwards to accommodate them. They placed them in a room for two that was up to ADA code. The room was also in the only property that is attached to the convention center which is the Hyatt Regency. Not too shabby I might say.

For several reasons beyond our control Matt just found out a few days ago about the layout in the Ares booth. I know this because he forwards me all his correspondence with all parties involved so if, God forbid, he was unable to be there I would know what was going on and carry on. The space was much smaller than he or I imagined. We instantly started coming up with possible fixes. I won't go through what we proposed back and forth but Matt's Idea of cutting a few games is great. We are not out of the woods yet s he needs to communicate with Origins and see if it is possible to do this at this late time.

I guess my bottom line is I would appreciate it if Matt was given 24 hours to resolve a situation he and I knew nothing about. If you let cooler heads prevail it will be fixed in a way that is right for everyone.

Thank you for listening to me. I am sure that once we get through this hiccup we will have a wonderful Origins that everyone, no matter what their physical ability, will enjoy. Please trusts Matt's judgement and good sense in leading us forward.

Thanks,

Jim O'Neil
Rhodie80

[clipper1801]

Well said! This team is good and very attentive, things can slip by or be interpreted in many ways, we need to look to the best and work from there. Cheers to all your efforts for Ken and the others who have these needs. Well done!

[flash]

...Dave - we should be okay with the smaller tables...we used them last year and they were satisfactory - not a nice as the larger ones, but we were able to cope with the change and run some great games....

Thanks Matt I'm sure we'll improvise, adapt and overcome; you and Jim keep up the hard work and we'll put on a show !

[matt56]

Peter, you are fine in regards to compensation - room and badge - not to worry. I will be the first person to 'bite the bullet' comp-wise as we move forward (should that be necessary). Should we decide to go the route of nixing some games, I will contact those involved to make sure they are okay with that decision. Some games/times lend themselves naturally to this; others might need to be swapped depending - but it should only involve three in total if we go in that direction...

Thank you for offering, but your presence and willingness to put on showcase games is truly appreciated, and the fact that you come from so far just for the opportunity to subject yourself to us deserves some sort of reward...

All the best,
Matt

[The Cowman]

I wanted to take a second to say "Thanks!" for all of your support in this matter! It is appreciated greatly!

To update you: Matt and I have finally had a chance to talk about the issue in detail... we are working on a current plan of attack to get the parties involved to help us rectify the situation. I will advise when I know more.

Thanks again!
Ken

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Glad to hear that there is some movement on the situation Ken.
I will follow the outcome in hope. Thank you also to the other parties for your efforts in Ken's time of need.
Rob.

[rhodie80]

Playing Devil’s Advocate should you not have given Matt the common courtesy of talking to him first before posting this on the forum and Facebook.

[The Cowman]

Glad to hear that there is some movement on the situation Ken.
I will follow the outcome in hope. Thank you also to the other parties for your efforts in Ken's time of need.
Rob.

Thank you Rob! I miss our little talks!

[Shadowcat]

Great work to all involved regardless of the outcome. This is why I love this forum, rather then ripping into each other like the norm we all go out of our way to find solutions. Can not make it myself but wish you all happy hunting in the skys.

[Marechallannes]

Hope this will get a happy end.

[Lt. S.Kafloc]

Apologies as being a late comer to the 'party'.

Last minute foul ups are always a headache and one as large as this only magnifies the problems, dominoes and knock on effects etc.

Having met most if not all of the team at Origins I am sure a workable compromise and a solution can be found.

Ken, behind you 100%, it would be more than a great shame if you are not there.

PS: Let Flash fly the 'bloody' Staaken this yearI still have the scars.

Neil

[Nightbomber]

I sincerely hope you can rectify this problem Ken.
You deserve to be there at Origins.

What he said!

[The Cowman]

Apologies as being a late comer to the 'party'.

Last minute foul ups are always a headache and one as large as this only magnifies the problems, dominoes and knock on effects etc.

Having met most if not all of the team at Origins I am sure a workable compromise and a solution can be found.

Ken, behind you 100%, it would be more than a great shame if you are not there.

PS: Let Flash fly the 'bloody' Staaken this yearI still have the scars.

Neil

One of the events will have multiple Staakens for Flash to crash if he chooses!

[The Cowman]

What he said!

Thank you sir!

[crashx]

As this will be my first trip to Origins, I am looking forward to meeting everyone!!! That said, I would not mind missing out on a game or two that I'm signed up for if it allowed Ken to be there!!! I have faith and confidence that your team will get this worked out, and in the end we'll have a hell of a good time in Ohio!!!

[rhodie80]

I have some great news in regards to this tough situation. As many of you predicted it would be one of our own on this forum would help pull us through. Philip, milcoll73, contact Matt and I on Facebook saying that their group would have extra gaming table space at Origins. Matt took up the correspondence as he is our point man on this event. Matt found out that they have empty table space at the times we need for the three games that would be at the fourth table in our booth. This allow us to only have three tables in our booth giving us a 10x10 foot area for each table. We would have more than enough room to fulfil the ADA requirements for room around the table. Matt is still waiting to hear from GAMA and Ares about any other fixes but this takes the boot off our neck. Everyone owes a round to Philip for stepping up and aiding in this situation. Well played that man. As I said before give us a little time and we will work it out with the aid of our mates.

[Naharaht]

That really is great news. A big well done to Philip!

[gully_raker]

I have some great news in regards to this tough situation. As many of you predicted it would be one of our own on this forum would help pull us through. Philip, milcoll73, contact Matt and I on Facebook saying that their group would have extra gaming table space at Origins. Matt took up the correspondence as he is our point man on this event. Matt found out that they have empty table space at the times we need for the three games that would be at the fourth table in our booth. This allow us to only have three tables in our booth giving us a 10x10 foot area for each table. We would have more than enough room to fulfil the ADA requirements for room around the table. Matt is still waiting to hear from GAMA and Ares about any other fixes but this takes the boot off our neck. Everyone owes a round to Philip for stepping up and aiding in this situation. Well played that man. As I said before give us a little time and we will work it out with the aid of our mates.

Well Done Chaps!

[flash]

Excellent news

[tikkifriend]

Fantastic . Comradeship wins the day.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I am gratified to hear that once again the camaraderie of the Drome prevails.
I hope that this will ease Ken's problem.
I will also be very interested to hear if any statement is forthcoming from either Ares or GAMA.
After all Ares should be supporting our interests in the matter.
Rob.

[tikkifriend]

Good point Rob re Ares

[Rebel]

I have some great news in regards to this tough situation. As many of you predicted it would be one of our own on this forum would help pull us through. Philip, milcoll73, contact Matt and I on Facebook saying that their group would have extra gaming table space at Origins. Matt took up the correspondence as he is our point man on this event. Matt found out that they have empty table space at the times we need for the three games that would be at the fourth table in our booth. This allow us to only have three tables in our booth giving us a 10x10 foot area for each table. We would have more than enough room to fulfil the ADA requirements for room around the table. Matt is still waiting to hear from GAMA and Ares about any other fixes but this takes the boot off our neck. Everyone owes a round to Philip for stepping up and aiding in this situation. Well played that man. As I said before give us a little time and we will work it out with the aid of our mates.

I would like to add a few more drinks to the occasion and throw in a few salutes to Phillip for his invaluable involvement.