Is the F4F perhaps a little underpowered

[Lord_Ninja]

I was scrolling around on FritztheFox's website when I noticed that he had the F4F's wingloading at 30lbs/sq ft and the Bf-109E at 32lbs/sq ft. If the general consensus is that the A6M2 should get updated turns with perhaps 60 degree turns similar to the Spitfire in the re-release, shouldn't the F4F get some love too? Would an unmodified C deck be more fitting? Obviously the hit points have been discussed to death but no one seems to have mentioned that it was a nimble aircraft in its own right. Just not compared to the Japanese fighters that it usually encountered. But let's not forget that in 1945, FM-2s of 882nd Squadron were escorting Avengers off the coast of Norway and jumped by eight Bf-109s of III Gruppe JG 5. In the ensuing combat three 109s were shot down and a fourth crashed on landing from battle damage (Luftwaffe records) for the loss of no FM-2s or Avengers. A bit of this can be chalked up as the Luftwaffe suffering from a lack of experienced pilots as two victims held the rank of Feldwebel and the third Unteroffizier, ranks associated with new pilots being NCOs. But taking no losses as at least the flight leaders probably having some experience should be taken into account. The 109s are only referred to being G models but even the G-6 had a 60 mph (97 kmh) advantage and a massive climb advantage over the Wildcat. So.... Thoughts?

[Shadowcat]

Inexperianced crews, lack of replacement parts degrading performance of the 109's, Serious fatigue of the overstretched German pilots, could be lots of factors. Also remember US aircraft tended to be armored or very difficult to knock down. (P47 comes straight to mind)

[Marechallannes]

Can't find anything about a 882nd squadron.



Beside this - should the movement deck of the F4F be improved?

[Flying Helmut]

The A6M2 is almost universally accepted as much more manoeuvrable than the F4F.

If the F4F deck adds 60 degree turns, the A6M2 deck will be unfairly disadvantaged.

[Teaticket]

When the Midway starter set comes out I hope the Zero will have enhanced maneuverability. The house rule/custom cards made here with the 90* turns makes the Zero play more like a Zero. If they officially at least give us 60* that would be a plus over what we now have. I would think they will up the agility of the Zero as thy have for the Spitfire. The F4F held it's own when better tactics were used, not necessarily because it was agile.

[OldGuy59]

... I would think they will up the agility of the Zero as thy have for the Spitfire. ...

I just hope Ares doesn't bust physics, as they did with the Spitfire, when they do.

The 'new' Spitfire turn is the fastest maneuver on the standard maneuver cards, and exceeds the Spitfire's straight speed.

[Teaticket]

I just hope Ares doesn't bust physics, as they did with the Spitfire, when they do.

The 'new' Spitfire turn is the fastest maneuver on the standard maneuver cards, and exceeds the Spitfire's straight speed.

I doubt physics are a concern when maneuver cards are designed.

[Naharaht]

The 'dive' cards have always ignored the laws of Physics.

[Carl_Brisgamer]

Can't find anything about a 882nd squadron.



Beside this - should the movement deck of the F4F be improved?

Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm squadron - http://www.wings-aviation.ch/32-FAA/4-Sqn/882.htm

[Lord_Ninja]

The A6M2 is almost universally accepted as much more manoeuvrable than the F4F.

If the F4F deck adds 60 degree turns, the A6M2 deck will be unfairly disadvantaged.

Re-read it. I stated an unmodified C-deck. Nothing about giving it 60 degree turns. My main point is that the F4F was a somewhat nimble aircraft, just that in the context of the Pacific it has received a reputation for being un-maneuverable. Where as the very few times it pops up in the European theater, it tended to do quite well without the need for special maneuvers such as the Thatch weave. In Operation Torch, it went against the D.520 and the P-36, both flown by experience Vichy pilots who had earlier fought the Germans (and came out on top in many of the encounters).

Sure the F4F turns like a brick compared to the Zero, but just about everything does. Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-36, all regarded as excellent turners, resorted to hit and run tactics against the Zero because they too struggled in horizontal maneuvers against it.