Ares Games
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: 9 Sqn RNAS Marking

  1. #1

    Default 9 Sqn RNAS Marking

    I'm hoping someone on the forum can answer something that is bugging me.

    The attached photo shows my attempt at an RNAS 9 "B" flight paint conversion: Cross & Cockade printed the design I have used (a cross made up of white, light blue and dark blue bands), and they back it up with black and white photos. They do say that interpreting the "colours" from black and white photos is very difficult.

    I see elsewhere on the forum, a very similar design, but with a central red stripe in the cross, rather than blue. Can anyone tell me a) are they two seperate aircraft, both from "B" flight and if not which is correct? b) Where can I obtain information on the aircraft with the "red" cross, if they are the same aircraft and the blue cross is incorrect?

    Thanks in advance for any help on this one

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	209 4.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	151.0 KB 
ID:	240328

  2. #2

    Default

    PS The Cross & Cockade International Journal was Spring 2014 Vol 45/1, and the name on the side of the aircraft was given as "Muryel".
    Cheers
    Mike

  3. #3

    Default

    Illustration 29 in Camel Aces of WWI and a description on p17 (googling it on issu?) gives Muryel as being B3905 with - in September 1917 - a blue tail plane and 'what appears to be a red and pale blue band edged white'. There was no fuselage rounded and Muryel was beneath the cockpit on the port side. Flown by, among others, Flight sub-Lt AW Wood in September 1917.

    Regards

    Edward

  4. #4

    Default

    Osprey's Sopwith Camel Aces of WW1 has that as serial B3905, one machine used by Flt sub Lt Wood of 9 Naval Sept 1917 with markings being, as they say, "with what appears to be red and pale blue band edged in white".


    They also suggest that Stackard's Camel was similarly marked colour wise and elsewhere mention another of Wood's machines which looks like your first repaint (B3884?) being edged in red but I can't make that out in the b/w image in the book, though I'd say the inner colour matches the blue of the tail fin.
    Stackard's markings seem to refer to two different machines B3883 & B6327 - whilst the overall layout appears the same how they were painted & the colours used look quite different in the b/w images used.
    Plates in Osprey's Naval Aces of WW1 Pt1 suggest the markings contain grey where others suggest red so all in all I'm coming to the conclusion that they don't actually know but then the books are more about the pilots than the colours of the planes they used.



    look at this site for more options http://www.wwi-models.org/Images/Mil...mel/index.html

    So things to consider are - what colours did the different flights use ? - I have seen A white, B blue, C red in other squadrons.
    Did that affect the marking of these machines ?
    Were there similarly marked planes at different times ? Looks like there may have been.
    Does anybody actually know ?!

    I'm not sure I've helped much Mike but it may go to explain why there are different versions out there. I'd say if you're happy with it stick with it until definitively proven otherwise !
    Last edited by flash; 01-31-2018 at 06:18.

    "He is wise who watches"

  5. #5

    Default

    Many thanks guys - I should point out that I am not trying to reproduce anything historically that accurate - so ignore things like serial numbers please I'm just not patient enough to get that right every time (or at all really ). Maybe at some future time I'll repent and redo them properly, but for now the models are just something different to put on the mats I am a very, very long way from trying to be anything like knowledgable on this subject area. I just find it facinating and this forum an amazing source of expertise

    Meantime. Interesting this one, since examination of the black and white photos would kind of support the idea that "Muryel" had the Blue, Light blue, White markings. So I'm wondering if at some stage she changed hands and another pilot switched the colours. I'll follow up the references you have kindly given - (another book to buy Cool! ) - and see if the pilot is mentioned in the Cross & Cockade article too.

    Cheers

    Mike

  6. #6

    Default

    PS The Mark Miller site is different yet again I see, with a possible blue, grey and white Oh well

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks for that link, Dave.
    I must remember to come back to this thread from my PC so I can bookmark it.
    Some of those look like repaints I might be able to tackle sometime.
    Last edited by Stumptonian; 02-01-2018 at 07:32.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeemagnus View Post
    PS The Mark Miller site is different yet again I see, with a possible blue, grey and white Oh well
    And therein lies the problem Mike ! And for grey some read red !
    I'm with you on serial numbers, I only quoted them 'cos they were there and to illustrate there were actually two different machines. Sadly the books quoted don't give much detail in way of flights the chaps were assigned to, and movement between so save your pennies.
    It still could come down to flight as to what colour is used - on p.10 of the Windsock Datafile 26 on the Camel, Lt E Pierce of A flight is pictured by his machine - it has mostly white covers on the wheels & a white diagonal stripe on the fuselage - along with, get this, 'the ruff encircled face of George Robey' a celebrated entertainer on the tail fin !
    How are your portrait skills in 1/144 ?!
    Last edited by flash; 02-01-2018 at 03:13.

    "He is wise who watches"

  9. #9

    Default

    How are your portrait skills in 1/144 ?!
    Shall I paint an extra one for you

    I hope the following is helpful - The black and white photos referred to above I post below. The pilot in the pic 2 is FSL C.A.Narbeth. In picture one, the unidentified aircraft standing beyond Muryel is described as having a white/red/blue band around the fuselage. That and the colours on the rudder of Muryel make it difficult for me to believe that the central strip of Muryel's cross is anything other than blue - on this occassion!

    The description of the markings, later in the Journal (Spring 2014 Vol 45/1), refers to colours, possibly used on B7202, and possibly applicable to B3905 Muryel, as given by Flt Cdr Joe Fall who described 9N Camels as using both "cockade blue" and a shade which he variously described as "light blue" and "French Blue". Still not conclusive, I know

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Muryel B and W 1.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	69.8 KB 
ID:	240399 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Muryel B and W 2.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	72.5 KB 
ID:	240400
    Pic 1 Pic 2



Similar Missions

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-23-2017, 15:35
  2. General Need help with Kenneth Unger 210 Squadron marking
    By Captain Chum in forum WGF: Historical Discussions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-25-2016, 17:00
  3. 1917 Nieuport marking
    By grumpybear in forum Officer's Club
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-15-2015, 05:20
  4. WGF A RAF R.E.8 in Belgium marking up for grabs
    By freebird-52 in forum Sale/Trade/Wanted Classifieds
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-10-2013, 03:55
  5. Marking for a victory over an Italian plane?
    By Wholenineyards in forum WGS: Historical Discussions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-05-2012, 02:18

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •