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Thread: Blood Red Skies

  1. #151

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    Just wondering. How is the skill level of each aircraft determined during set up? That bit did not seem to be explained in the rules.

  2. #152

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    Either scenario or points driven. Pilots are 25pts per skill level with level 1 free, level 2 is 25pts, level 3 is 50pts etc.

    This is the bit I am least sure about as far as balance goes. Points are there for pick up style games. The current points are (as far as I know) are

    Spitfire & 109 31 pts
    P51D 46pts
    Yak 1 19 pts
    A6M5 42pts

    Not sure about the "soft" factors like theatre cards etc but a flight of 4 Spits or 109s with a good flight leader (lvl4) and 3 experienced pilots (lvl 3) is 349pts

    The first thought is what happens when they run into Yaks on equal points. The same 4 Yaks are 301pts meaning the Russian could opt for an extra Yak with a lvl 2 pilot for a total of 345pts . Clearly the pick up style game will see lots of different build options but I have not seen the details yet.

    Hurricane II and 110C are 24pts each, Wildcat is 27, A6M2 28

    The most expensive plane I have seen stats for is the 262A at 94pts - no surprise really. Once released I understand all the stats will be made available as a pdf - the current list has 70+ planes on it iirc, so plenty to work with
    Last edited by PilGrim; 01-23-2018 at 16:47.

  3. #153

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    Interesting... Your answer creates yet more questions. Is it March yet?

    If we should have to fight, we should be prepared to do so from the neck up instead of from the neck down. -Jimmy Doolittle

  4. #154

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    Interesting but what I meant to say is how is the pilot skill level determined during the set up. I am thinking I might get a set after all just to try the mechanics.

  5. #155

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    Are you referring to the Pilot Skill Discs? I assumed it would be tied into the point system but now that I look at that section again (p.8) it is not so clear.

    I asked this before but my biggest question: "Is the top of the flight peg Litko compatible."

    If we should have to fight, we should be prepared to do so from the neck up instead of from the neck down. -Jimmy Doolittle

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    Are you referring to the Pilot Skill Discs? I assumed it would be tied into the point system but now that I look at that section again (p.8) it is not so clear.

    I asked this before but my biggest question: "Is the top of the flight peg Litko compatible."
    The pilot skill disks are interchangeable and drop \ sit on top of the flight stand through the peg slot, and yes in points games skill is based on points spent. I cant answer the Litko question as I dont have any but I can get the dimensions and a pic later.

    I would suggest you may be looking at this backwards. Assuming BHS sells - and so far there are plenty of indications it will, then a third party supplier like Litko will not be slow adapting their flight stands to accommodate. The best way to ensure that is ask Litko I'm pretty certain our desires here as WGS players have zero impact on BRS planning and production as they're not really that interested in integration with another game. That's perfectly understandable, frankly they have bigger fish to fry. Litko however are specifically in that business, so as I said, of there is a demand for conversion pieces I am confident they will try and sell them.

  7. #157

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    My question is more along the lines of path of least resistance. Since I already possess some Litko peg adapters that are WoG compatible it would be great to mount-up some Ares Mustangs day one, straight out of the box. I have no doubt that either Litko or some other solution will be available, but I am as impatient as Veruca Salt. This is what happens when there are not enough spoilers...

    If we should have to fight, we should be prepared to do so from the neck up instead of from the neck down. -Jimmy Doolittle

  8. #158

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    Warlord has the models at their headquarters ready to ship to preorders by March and retail in April. Here is the best photo evidence yet of the BRS models quality in the form of a a Boulton Paul Defiant:

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    If we should have to fight, we should be prepared to do so from the neck up instead of from the neck down. -Jimmy Doolittle

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    Warlord has the models at their headquarters ready to ship to preorders by March and retail in April. Here is the best photo evidence yet of the BRS models quality in the form of a a Boulton Paul Defiant:

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    Love the paint job in the background, not too sold on the molding.

    It looks like a compromise between detail, accentuated characteristics for visibility at scale, and durable molds for quick mass production (as well as long term durability of the mold). Still, if you're up to painting, these might be nice, as the example indicates.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  10. #160

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    The Defiant would be a starter - except AIM already make an unpainted 1/200 resin example which sells at US$4 each and looks to be a better sculpt (look, a tail wheel!) - http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/armamen...ntI_r90304.gif

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  11. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    The Defiant would be a starter - except AIM already make an unpainted 1/200 resin example which sells at US$4 each and looks to be a better sculpt (look, a tail wheel!) - http://www.angelfire.com/nj4/armamen...ntI_r90304.gif

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    I'm tempted to respond with a comment along the line of "look at that extra detail, particularly the huge ****ing screw sticking out of the bottom! - I never noticed that on the pics of the original"

    Problem is I love Dave's models and heartily recommend them to all and sundry. I'm sat here with six Me110s undercoated and ready to paint for BRS. The truth however is that you can find fault with any model if you try hard enough. The BRS models are designed to be playing pieces from the outset so do have exaggerated (or in some cases just plain wrong) details. Then again the cannons and propeller blades don't snap off when you pick them up. It's a trade off.

    Actually Dave has provided me with some of his models to do a review of and I will include the BRS equivalents when they are released, but spoilers - you can actually play with both.

  12. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by PilGrim View Post
    I'm tempted to respond with a comment along the line of "look at that extra detail, particularly the huge ****ing screw sticking out of the bottom! - I never noticed that on the pics of the original"
    I only mentioned it as an option for those who don't intend to play BRS but might have been looking for a Defiant miniature to use for WGS. The AIM product is as you say a great sculpt and less expensive. If you were intending to play BRS then using the Warlord Defiant with BRS base and stickers at about $6.50 ea is a winner.

    As for the underside screw, most WGS players I know who use AIM welcome the feature as it makes it easy to attach the miniatures to flight pegs using rare earth magnets.

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post

    As for the underside screw, most WGS players I know who use AIM welcome the feature as it makes it easy to attach the miniatures to flight pegs using rare earth magnets.
    As do I. It is particularly helpful when painting I find. But if your criticism is detail, you do need to recognise there are issues with this "feature", and it is far from simple to remove

    And of course AIM is not so easily available if you are not in the US. I order from Dave about once a year. His turn around times and service is excellent and I don't find postage to the UK that much of a problem, but it would only take one overly zealous member of HM Customs to make the exchange far from viable.

    I'm embarrassingly aware I'm starting to sound like either a fanbouy or one of those instant rebuttal units. In truth based on what I have seen the rules are excellent, the models are Ok but could have been better

    Best wait to see the real products
    Last edited by PilGrim; 02-03-2018 at 15:50.

  14. #164

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    OK BRS shipping pre orders now. Ive seen the "production" models and they are the same as the ones I saw earlier so none of the problems have been resolved - ie wrong wing panels on the 109 etc, however now I've had a chance to put some paint on them I have to say they're growing on me, and they were a joy to paint - those deep panel lines made getting a nice effect dead easy (if you like that sort of thing). If you are looking for another source of 1:200 planes they're worth a pass. I'll have a better comparison once my full order arrives and I get some time to do a side by side with AIM and WOG.

    Retail price is £20 for a "Squadron" of 6 plus bases and game aids - most of which are not much use for WOG players. The "Ace" packs only have 1 model plus cards and the like for £12.50 so of no real use to WOG players.

    Normal retail is April and the rumours of a second wave of plastic models are confirmed. I think they (Warlord) have learned a lot from the initial teething problems so hopefully Wave 2 will be easier. Allegedly that includes a Mossie
    Last edited by PilGrim; 04-10-2018 at 15:13.

  15. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by PilGrim View Post
    As do I. It is particularly helpful when painting I find. But if your criticism is detail, you do need to recognise there are issues with this "feature", and it is far from simple to remove
    Actually as an update I discovered that the screw wouldnt budge but it was not that hard to chop the screw and plug out once I was committed to doing it. Something of a surprise
    Last edited by PilGrim; 04-10-2018 at 15:11.

  16. #166

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    My order is on its way and I have collected the necessary paints for P-51's and Zero's. I also bought decals because the included stickers are not going to cut it.

    In terms of the game, there are locals who want to play BRS and all the local stores are going to carry it. WoG is completely absent...

    My current odds for Ares producing a Corsair before Warlord: 25:1

  17. #167

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    I'm still on the fence with BRS. Watching the youtube how to play didn't convince me.

    As you say the shops are picking up on this while Wings is absent. Marketing and supplying vendors hasn't been ARES strength. Hopefully BRS is successful and will interest players into WW2 air gaming and some join in to our world of Wings. Warlord will produce planes at lightening speed compared to ARES so it will benefit us as we can use them!

  18. #168

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    Got my started set ordered, life us too short not to try it all. I am running out of planes to build from scratch and find I have less enthusiasm make them just to store them. The forced hiatus took a lot of the wind out of my wings sails and I find several ships on my bench, those elves . . . !

  19. #169

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    I know from chatting to a couple of guys involved in the BRS project that they were eyeing the possibility of hitting the "casual" gamer slot , getting the box onto shelves at non war gaming stores. Ironically exactly where WoW / WoG started. That explains the pre coloured plastic and stickers, and the splitting of the rules into basic and advanced. To an extent that also explains the strange initial choices of models. There has since been a bit of a rethink and some staffing changes and the lead guy is much more historical / themed focused, but they are tied to pre coloured plastic. That's a problem as lead times are long.

    Having got to know Warlord a bit more they're rather proud of their record of commitment to systems, so they usually stick with , expand and support a project once launched. My own impression, unsupported by any evidence, is the starter set was their first real attempt to cooperate with Chinese production, and like everyone else they underestimated the complexity and complications involved. That explains the delays. I also get the impression those lessons have been learned and that follow up expansions will be regular. It is rumoured they have two more expansion sets on the way with release dates in this summer. I've seen masters and designs of several proposed releases and they look good. It is Salute this weekend and they have limited stock available on the day prior to the official retail release next month. I will try and pick some brains. Their demo game is looking incredible, they've got a 1:200 USS carrier as the centrepiece.

  20. #170

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    "Sink The Hornet" A WW2 what if scenario based on the Battle of the Philippine Sea on Table GC05 for anyone interested - worth a look by the sounds of it.
    Will we see you at the Forum's table Ken ? Hope you get time to come and say hello even if you don't have time for a game.

    "He is wise who watches"

  21. #171

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    I saw the CV-8 photos on FB. Nice piece.

    Really the only airplane out of place with the rest in the initial release is the P-51 but it will still be a popular purchase so no harm. If you just replaced the Mustang with Wildcat you have in essence, the first WoW Deluxe set mixed with the BoB set. As long as they fill the Pacific match-up gap on the Allies side and avoid the pitfall of producing esoteric planes everything is on target.

    From what I have seen I like the way Warlord represents Zero's, allowing them to change direction mid-move but being more susceptible to damage. I also like the point system with no limit to the number of aircraft. This means I can flood the skies with rookie pilots in highly maneuverable Japanese tinderboxes. Fun!

  22. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    "Sink The Hornet" A WW2 what if scenario based on the Battle of the Philippine Sea on Table GC05 for anyone interested - worth a look by the sounds of it.
    Will we see you at the Forum's table Ken ? Hope you get time to come and say hello even if you don't have time for a game.
    I'm demo'ing Dropfleet Commander for TTC\Hawk (on table GK15) and hope to get over to play "What a Tanker" with Rich Clarke and the Two Fat Lardies on GL24 - (as an aside What a Tanker is brilliant - ridiculously fun so if you get a chance give it a go.) Of course I'll be doing a flypast at the Aerodrome but I dont know how much free time I'll have. Salute is a bit overwhelming at the best of times and when you are "working" it can be a bit of a whirlwind.

    Hope to see folks there - I'm the fat guy in the TTC shirt - assuming they have the shirt ready........

  23. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    I saw the CV-8 photos on FB. Nice piece.

    Really the only airplane out of place with the rest in the initial release is the P-51 but it will still be a popular purchase so no harm. If you just replaced the Mustang with Wildcat you have in essence, the first WoW Deluxe set mixed with the BoB set. As long as they fill the Pacific match-up gap on the Allies side and avoid the pitfall of producing esoteric planes everything is on target.

    From what I have seen I like the way Warlord represents Zero's, allowing them to change direction mid-move but being more susceptible to damage. I also like the point system with no limit to the number of aircraft. This means I can flood the skies with rookie pilots in highly maneuverable Japanese tinderboxes. Fun!
    When you see the additional stuff you can add using the Theatre and Doctrine cards you will probably love that part. One of the Theatre Cards for the Japanese is "Numbers" which adds another couple of Zeros to your force for free - ok they're not great pilots, but if you want a Turkey Shoot you first need Turkeys :-)

  24. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by PilGrim View Post
    I'm demo'ing Dropfleet Commander for TTC\Hawk...
    Off topic, but, Ken, have you seen the movement to start an independent forum for DZC/DFC? I’ve attemted to point the gents this way as an example of a well setup and moderated forum.

  25. #175

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    Quote Originally Posted by BwanaJoe View Post
    Off topic, but, Ken, have you seen the movement to start an independent forum for DZC/DFC? I’ve attemted to point the gents this way as an example of a well setup and moderated forum.
    For the convenience of the other members I'll respond via PM

  26. #176

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    Just out of curiosity but where do you BRS folk intend to post your AAR's? You can hardly expect to post them here and BGG is a bit NAFF. Is there a decent BRS forum?

  27. #177

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    Good Q (and apologies for the digression to the rest of the Mess)

    They have a FB page and there is an unofficial FB page starting here https://www.facebook.com/groups/1649101651822260/ - quiet at the moment but as no-one has the game that's no surprise.

    Warlord had (and still do) planned to add a BRS page to their Bolt Action forum, but that has been down for a while for rebuilding. Hopefully they will sort that out "soon"

  28. #178

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    Until Warlord reboots I will use BGG over FB because the format facilitates how I like to present AARs better and I prefer the way information is preserved on their site.

  29. #179

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    Blood Red Skies at Salute! Cheers.


  30. #180

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    The Hornet did look the part.

    "He is wise who watches"

  31. #181

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    The "Hornet" model was lovely, and the planes were largely well painted.

    I had a good long chat with one of the demo team, and he was very approachable, knowledgeable and a real enthusiast.
    The future timeline of rapid-fire releases of new models sounds like a dream, or, at least, it would be if they were Ares products.

    The game generally, though, just didn't "do it" for me.

    An 'advantaged' plane looks like it is climbing, but it isn't.
    A 'disadvantaged' plane looks like it is diving, but it isn't.
    No matter how hard I tried, I just can't train my brain to accept the representation of this game mechanism.

    Personally, I won't be buying in to this game. It looks OK, but it's not for me.

  32. #182

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    Been doing WWI once a month at the hobby store but next month going to do WWII. Has me suddenly interested in looking into it. Wondering how well the planes from BRS will carry over to WoG WWII. Been bringing in Shapeways airframes for WWI, so already have a running start at it. Also as soon as I get T and T will be doing a demo for the group later this year.

    And the carrier is outstanding.

  33. #183

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    One of my friends picked up a copy, he's been an air wargamer for many years and he thinks it looks rather good. I'll her more form him when he's played a few games. One thing he did mention was the "advantaged/disadvantaged/climbing/diving" thing, where he's decided he is going to reverse the indicators for this; advantaged aircraft will be diving and the reverse for climbing aircraft. For the reasons mentioned here. TBH I've seen this comment in so many places that it wouldn't surprise me if Warlord made it an official change at some point.

  34. #184

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    Your friend could be making a big mistake if he plans to play in any official organized play events. If he is currently having difficulty wrapping his mind around the rule then reinforcing that by playing it opposite could create an even more challenging mental exesize under the pressure of tournament time restraints.

  35. #185

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    I can count the number of my friends who play in "tournaments" on the fingers of a snail, so its not an issue.

    I can't stand tournament play and the behaviours it generates. For example all this tosh about X Wing squad building and moving things with fraction-of-a-millimetre precision leaves me and my friends cold, we play scenario based games without that encumbrance and actually have fun. I guess it stems from helping out with running a WRG Ancients tournament at Chippenham many years ago where I noticed everything was to stressy, some players almost came to blows and nobody seemed to be really enjoying it. I've played in three tournaments over 40-odd years i wargaming, all because I was helping friends make up numbers in events they were running. I actually did OK, probably because I was pretty relaxed about how wel I did, whereas some opponents were wound up tighter than a watch spring. All seemed very daft to me. I seem to attract like minded people

  36. #186

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    No argument about tournament atmosphere around most games. However, the very presence of tournaments makes my local pool of players hesitant to implement house rules because even non-tournament play will include tournament players. A person who engages in organized play will not want to remember two ways to implement the mechanism so they will carry RAW into casual environments. I would define myself as casual but stick to RAW for simplicity sake.

    Full disclosure, I am not struggling with the airplane tilt like some of the others. I think it is because I see the tilting back as a change in perspective rather than climbing from a set horizontal plane. In other words, I see the underside of your plane because it is above me with advantage while seeing the top of your plane means I am above you to my advantage.

  37. #187

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    Could those stands be modified to telescopic? Maybe Corsec engineering make something suitable. That might be more pleasing on the eye.

    http://www.corseceng.com/omni-stand/
    Last edited by Baxter; 04-15-2018 at 15:58.

  38. #188

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    I like the idea of telescopic for both games. I find adding and removing WoG pegs a bit clunky and ultimately I can see up and down being better for BRS as well.

  39. #189

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    Those telescopic stands might be good for the Battlestar Galactica game when it comes out.

  40. #190

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    More pics I tool of the Hornet



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    The Kates and Wildcats that are on table rather than on deck are metal models Warlord rushed out - I assume they will be available in plastic later. Not sure about the deck park but I suspect they're Merit \ Trumpeter

  41. #191

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    So, a slightly better copy of an aircraft carrier (the HMS Glorious) that Dave [clipper1801] provided to me a few years ago.

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    The HMS Glorious at GottaCon 2015, on a slightly lower PR budget.

    As a tool to draw people across a convention room floor, a 1/200 scale aircraft carrier works admirably well. I suspect it did what Warlord wanted, and got people looking at their table.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  42. #192

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    Clipper works on a scale that us mere mortals cannot comprehend

  43. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by PilGrim View Post
    Clipper works on a scale that us mere mortals cannot comprehend
    It boggles my mind that he not only did this carrier, he did the entire Battle of Midway, all carriers for both sides, and planes! I keep trying to find a venue to play that battle at 1/200 scale, but only a gymnasium would be big enough.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  44. #194

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    Just saw that Miniature Market has BRS now in stock. So had to give you that info.

  45. #195

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    The carrier always does my head in. Apart from being beautiful models 1/200 is the wrong scale. I cannot work it out but if your Japanese dive bomber releases his bomb at 1500 feet or higher then the target ship xurely has to be smaller than 1/200. Anyone got any ideas on that?

  46. #196

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    Many options for that. War @ Sea, GHQ and Top Side minis would be a good choice.

  47. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    The carrier always does my head in. Apart from being beautiful models 1/200 is the wrong scale. I cannot work it out but if your Japanese dive bomber releases his bomb at 1500 feet or higher then the target ship xurely has to be smaller than 1/200. Anyone got any ideas on that?
    For functional use I like the 1:1800 scale Axis and Allies, War at Sea miniatures. The ships also look really nice. I view the 1:200 Carrier as more of a piece of staging terrain than an interactive target.

  48. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    The carrier always does my head in. Apart from being beautiful models 1/200 is the wrong scale. I cannot work it out but if your Japanese dive bomber releases his bomb at 1500 feet or higher then the target ship xurely has to be smaller than 1/200. Anyone got any ideas on that?
    Hmmm... Real planes at 1/1 scale dropping bombs at 1500 feet, on real aircraft carriers at 1/1 scale. WoG planes dropping bombs on an aircraft carrier. Make them the same. Not a problem in real life, not a problem at 1/200 scale. Lots of pegs, I suppose might be a problem, if you want the height scale the same.

    PS: Yes. The 1/200 scale carrier is meant to catch peoples' eyes at a show, and it does that well. For those that play in scenarios with it, hitting it with bombs might be a bit easy, but they still have fun.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  49. #199

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    Radar has alerted me the BRS order is winging westward, over Colorado at the moment, anxious to see them land, been a long time since we had visitors in the AZ . . . second wave will be a box of all the aircraft additions, not sure when they will ship . . . the elves will be doing some mass painting soon!

    P.S. 1/200" is TOTS "the one true scale" . . . so say they all! The elves that is . . .

  50. #200

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    Naked Zekes seen on the West Coast!

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    A bit of bending into place and some painting will be on the weekend agenda.

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