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Thread: Availability of WW2 Miniatures

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth7 View Post
    I've tried to order the P51D/Ellington repeatedly and have been searching all avenues online with no success. So there still seems to be a disconnect somewhere.
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...P-40-P-51-B-17

    There's one for sale here, in your own country, no less!

  2. #52


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    Quote Originally Posted by robdimeglio View Post
    There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.
    I was just on the website for Miniature Market (which I assume is one of the major online retailers). In addition to the aforementioned P-40s and He-111s, they also list the following as out of stock:

    FW-190 D-13 (Gotz)
    Bf.110 C-4 (Schupp)
    Messerschmitt Bf.110 C-4 (Radusch)
    WWII - P-51D Mustang (Ellington)
    WWII - Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VIF (Davoud)
    WWII - FW-190 D-9 (Wubke)
    Republic P-47D Thunderbolt (RAF 135 Squadron)

    Of these, I have been unable to find the Ellington P-51 or the Schupp bf 110 ANYWHERE. I was able to find a couple of the Ellington P-51s used, but I know this is one that many other players haven't been able to find. I consider this seller's stock to actually be pretty good, as they have several models for sale I don't see anywhere else.

    I'm not trying to be a pain or be argumentative here. I do however think this issue is more serious than you think that it is.

    I'd also like to repeat my earlier question - given that the P-40s and green He-111s are obviously wildly popular, are there any plans to reprint these?

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsalt View Post
    I was just on the website for Miniature Market (which I assume is one of the major online retailers). In addition to the aforementioned P-40s and He-111s, they also list the following as out of stock:

    FW-190 D-13 (Gotz)
    Bf.110 C-4 (Schupp)
    Messerschmitt Bf.110 C-4 (Radusch)
    WWII - P-51D Mustang (Ellington)
    WWII - Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VIF (Davoud)
    WWII - FW-190 D-9 (Wubke)
    Republic P-47D Thunderbolt (RAF 135 Squadron)

    Of these, I have been unable to find the Ellington P-51 or the Schupp bf 110 ANYWHERE. I was able to find a couple of the Ellington P-51s used, but I know this is one that many other players haven't been able to find. I consider this seller's stock to actually be pretty good, as they have several models for sale I don't see anywhere else.

    I'm not trying to be a pain or be argumentative here. I do however think this issue is more serious than you think that it is.

    I'd also like to repeat my earlier question - given that the P-40s and green He-111s are obviously wildly popular, are there any plans to reprint these?
    Australian distributor Rivalsky Games (run by our own Xen here on the forum) has most of those aircraft available right now. I think the only one he doesn't have is the Schupp Bf 110 but that was because he sold his last couple two weeks back and has ordered more from Ares. If he can get them I don't understand why others cannot.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stealth7 View Post
    Who would that be? Will they ship?
    i checked and hes not interested in getting into mail order stuff. if your interested im sure we could work something out with me buying them for you and shipping them if youre interested. also i see that youre in ohio. if your close enough maybe you could just visit the store!

  5. #55


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Australian distributor Rivalsky Games (run by our own Xen here on the forum) has most of those aircraft available right now. I think the only one he doesn't have is the Schupp Bf 110 but that was because he sold his last couple two weeks back and has ordered more from Ares. If he can get them I don't understand why others cannot.
    I would say that this proves both points that are being made in this thread. Roberto says there is plenty of stock (on most items) at the Ares warehouse. The fact that a store in Australia can get items would be proof that there is adequate stock available. However, the fact that an Australian store can get product and U.S. stores cannot get the same product would also be proof of the contention that there is an issue with the distributors in the U.S.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsalt View Post
    I would say that this proves both points that are being made in this thread. Roberto says there is plenty of stock (on most items) at the Ares warehouse. The fact that a store in Australia can get items would be proof that there is adequate stock available. However, the fact that an Australian store can get product and U.S. stores cannot get the same product would also be proof of the contention that there is an issue with the distributors in the U.S.
    Interesting that USA stores are having an issue. Here in Canada, 'small store' syndrome is an issue. Curious Comics in Victoria and Imperial Hobbies in Vancouver seem to be able to get things in, but my FLGS can't seem to get planes in anything like a timely manner. Even with pre-orders.

    BTW: Roberto hasn't provided the Canadian distributors names.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    BTW: Roberto hasn't provided the Canadian distributors names.
    Are you sure they don't just get them from USA distributers?
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Are you sure they don't just get them from USA distributers?
    Karl
    Very! There are legal and financial implications involved in distributing across borders.

    That being said, I'm also very sure all the minis come from the warehouse in the USA. So,besides the exchange rate and customs issues, there is yet another level of mark-up added to Canadian prices.

  9. #59

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    Hmm. I missed this conversation! I thought it might still be worth commenting.

    I run Rival Sky Games from Australia and am aspiring to carry as much stock as Australian retailers need. While I am a small operation, I have been placing orders a frequently as I can, my next order is coming by sea and I believe its close to 2 cubic metres of stock. (including lots of Sails of Glory!) So yes, it is very possible to get stock into Australia from Ares!!

    However, USA's main distributor of the product Alliance Games IS in my experience possible to buy from. Some earlier posts mention that US retailers are struggling to purchase goods from Alliance, but I have not experienced this problem? Its rare that I need to order from them, but they are definitely much better than GTS distribution and ACD.

    Robert, I think what you have said is not completely correct on what is left in stock.
    "There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered."

    Yep, the P40's and green Heinkel are out of stock. But so are 2 of the FW190's and Ellington's Mustang.

    However I don't think this is a major problem I completely understand that these items can't be kept in production 100% of the time. Ares is doing very well at reprinting these, and the squadron packs have been a real success, at least in Australia they have!
    The Battle of Britain theming here was a big part of it being popular. Themed releases give a context that less knowledgeable players can lock on to and immerse themselves in.
    It also empowers knowledgeable players like Carl a fellow Aussie here to run campaigns around planes and starter sets he knows will be available for the next few years.

    When the reprints of the Immelmanns and DH2's comes out, it might be beneficial to release them under the banner of 'fokker scourge' or something like that. It adds story, which is the way all board games are going these days.

    I hear rumours occasionally of scenario packs coming out in the future... The store in Melbourne who places the biggest orders with me is frothing for something like this. Again, it adds to the story.

    So. Back to the original topic, from my experience, the stock is available at Ares. You just have to buy the hottest items within the first 24-36 months of them being released. My perspective is that 24-36 months is a decent amount of time for a niche product like this to be available. For example, yes Ellington's red tailed Mustang is out of stock. I noticed it was gone around May 2017 this year I believe? What year was it released? I'm struggling to find its original release date. Gotz sold out possibly the month before, and Wubke several months later. Everything else from that series was still available last time I checked. As far as I can tell, those minis were released in 2014 were they?

    True, the Gotha's sold out incredibly fast, within 18 months maybe? which is way to fast, but ARES reprinted them immediately!!!

    I think Ares is doing a fantastic job. We are a niche market, but the future is bright. If we are having issues with access to product from distributors like Alliance, in my experience, you just have to keep knocking on those doors. The squeaky wheel gets the oil!

    Bring on more themed releases and campaign packs!!!
    Last edited by Xen; 08-31-2017 at 03:50.

  10. #60

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    I'd be curious to hear what the size of your typical order is from Alliance. I have two retailers telling me that Alliance often sends a subset of what they order, and at times sends the wrong stuff. I've seen the "wrong stuff" sent and it's often really wrong, not like almost-but-not-quite wrong. At times I think they're low-priority purchasers because their requests are small.

    As it stands now the local guy has one of each duel pack, two Battle of Britain sets (and they took photos of my most recent session, playing WW2) and one of each of the squadron packs. So it appears that they ordered the basics and have received them. We'll see if the photo goes into a weekly newsletter. That might generate some interests.

  11. #61

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    They generally only ship for free on orders of $300 usd, so I've never ordered under that. I've only used them twice though so, I guess I haven't had the time to see the errors happen?
    I haven't had damaged stock from them either.

  12. #62

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    Other then here I order from Miniature Market. You can see that the popular planes are the first to go but they have others of the same plane but limited in numbers. They still have old WoW planes, D-520 and VAl. I understand that the D-520 is not a big seller.

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    The Battle of Britain theming here was a big part of it being popular. Themed releases give a context that less knowledgeable players can lock on to and immerse themselves in.
    It also empowers knowledgeable players like Carl a fellow Aussie here to run campaigns around planes and starter sets he knows will be available for the next few years.

    Bring on more themed releases and campaign packs!!!
    It is only thanks to a steady supply of miniatures available here in Australia that we have been able to rekindle interest in Wings of Glory. The prospective players were always there, but without product you can't run campaigns and build the player base.

    So well done you

    PS and yes more themed/theatre of operations squadron packs would definitely be winners in my book.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Other then here I order from Miniature Market. They still have old WoW planes, D-520 and VAl. I understand that the D-520 is not a big seller.
    I just bought three D.520 Stellas from them for repaints at $5 a piece, good deal.

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    ,,, the D-520 is not a big seller.
    A lot more interesting to me after seeing Carl's Polish and France 1940 campaign. I might actually bust mine out of their shrink wrap.

  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    A lot more interesting to me after seeing Carl's Polish and France 1940 campaign. I might actually bust mine out of their shrink wrap.
    With the Bf 109E-3s in print they have a ready made opponent.

  17. #67

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    If there was some way to find out exactly which items were 'sitting in the U.S. warehouse doing nothing', then perhaps Keith could order some, if anyone here wanted some. I know that there are many 'ifs' involved .

  18. #68

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    Flying tigers vs those damn jap zeroes would be a great kick off for me
    4 zeroes ( a6m2 I think army colour ) and 3 flying tigers ( possibly any p-40's would do if the decals were available )...

  19. #69

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    Is the 'Now Available' list on the Upcoming, Available, Out of Stock page on the Ares website a list of what is sitting in the U.S.A. warehouse just waiting to be ordered?

  20. #70

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    No. Its meant to be, but its rarely updated. There is a bunch listed there as available that are actually sold out at Ares. (unless they keep a stash for themselves only that is for events they have stalls at, or other reasons)

  21. #71


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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    If there was some way to find out exactly which items were 'sitting in the U.S. warehouse doing nothing', then perhaps Keith could order some, if anyone here wanted some. I know that there are many 'ifs' involved .
    I’m not sure what the answer is. Is Keith the guy running the Aerodrome store? If so, perhaps something could be arranged to comb the warehouse and ship him any of the harder to find items – like the Ellington P-51. Better to have them sell online through him than to have them sit in a warehouse unordered by US distributers.

    What follows is strictly anecdotal, but strengthens further my belief that these is an issue with distribution in the US.

    In my job I travel a lot by car. One of the things I do when I’m in different cities, is, when time allows, try to track down local game stores (if there is one) and check them out. My travels in the past month has taken me to 6 stores (plus the one here in Louisville).

    In the stores I visited in Murray and Paducah, KY, and one store in Nashville, TN, I found that there was very little in the way of historical gaming. All 3 have large areas for open gaming, but their clientele is almost all into role playing or games of that ilk, boardgames like Catan, or stuff like Star Wars X-Wing or Warhammer. Two of the three did not have a single title that would be considered a war game.

    The other 2 stores – one in Bowling Green, KY, and another one in Nashville, TN – did have historical games in stock. Both of them have areas for open gaming. In both of them the owners confirmed that at least some of the gaming is historical. The guy in Nashville said he had at one time WoW/WoG in the store, but there wasn’t enough interest in it to keep carrying it. The guy in Bowling Green said that people had played it, but lost interest. He also said that he couldn’t get adequate stock.

    The store I visited tonight on the way home was Hard Knox in Elizabethtown, KY – about 45 minutes south of Louisville. A large game store in a mall. I asked the owner if they had any Wings of Glory and he said “We used to carry it, but people lost interest in it, so we clearanced out what we had and don’t carry it any more. If you want to special order any I might be able to get them for you.” I then asked him if he had trouble getting it in stock and said that he could never get adequate stock. I then asked him if he had problems with his distributor, and he said yes. He pointed to some Star Wars: Destiny and said he can’t get it in stock and when he does get an order it is always for far less than what he ordered.

    Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?

    My travels have covered seven stores, including the main game stores in two large cities (Nashville and Louisville). Of the four that carry or used to carry WoW/WoG, only one – the one here in Louisville – even attempts to stock it any longer, and he openly says he can’t get restock. Note that these stores represent the only outlets I’m aware of in a fairly good-sized geographic area where you would theoretically be able to buy WoG – and they all are telling basically the same story – that they can’t get the product in stock.

    I’ll repeat what I said earlier – I think the evidence is clear that distribution of the game is a bigger – much bigger - problem than Ares thinks it is.

  22. #72

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    So, it is my belief that the stock they would be talking about struggling to get in would be starter sets. There has been large gaps in availability of starter sets. There was nothing the distributors could do about that. I also believe Ares is working hard to rectify that issue.

    Thankfully they are all back available now thanks to the Battle of Britain release, and reprints of Duel Packs and Rules & Accessories packs.

  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobsalt View Post
    Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?

    From bitter experience it is definitely the lack of miniatures that dampens player interest, not the other way around. Stores need to stock reasonable quantities of different types to keep players coming back.

  24. #74

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    Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?




    i can answer that one anecdotally at least. when the flgs 1st opened (late 2013 early 2014), there was small core of maybe 4-5 players besides myself that were interested in wog and buying at least a few minis. after their initial interest in minis was satiated during interim between the long waits between releases of new minis, i saw the majoritys interest for the game wane slowly and them move on to other games. it was, frankly, quite frustrating to watch.

    keeping stock in hasnt been an issue, but thats mostly because demand has been small.

    as of late, i seem to have gotten another small group interested in the game so maybe, just maybe interest will pick up. however, one of the new group ordered a staaken that, for some reason not accounted for, wasnt shipped with the latest order from the alliance distributor. staakens are still shown in stock from them, and no explanation was given, the staaken ordered simply wasnt included with the order. all other wog product was included in the order, just not the staaken.

  25. #75

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    That sucks. Must have been so deflating to not receive the centrepiece!

    So in Australia, with the new Battle of Britain release and Duel packs being readily available, I am noticing a few pockets of growth that are quite passionate. Key to these though is not just the availability of stock, its that there is a passionate local adding 'story' through scenarios and amazing terrain.

    I think story is the sweet spot of gaming. Video gaming understands this. Wings of Glory assumes the gamer will apply story to what they make. And in the cases where that happens, the game gets huge interest.

    If Ares can bring out a campaign pack, that adds 'story' to Wings of Glory, while timing that with heaps of starter sets also being in stock, this game will have another wave of growth.

  26. #76

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    Information gleaned from the UK leans towards the bigger retail companies (Amazon in particular) block bulk buying items and whatever is left is distributed to smaller game shops carrying stock, even if their orders were in first (There is one sole UK distrubuter for all orders). This may be the reason elsewhere.

    Club wise I found that out of 12 who were playing the game on a regular basis all the aircraft were owned by 3 members, myself included. Others were happy to play with our extensive collections and although they like playing were not committed enough to buy into it.

    I have offered to put on games at my LFGS but there was no interest from customers to play in the gaming area and the shop was open 4 nights and weekends for gaming.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  27. #77


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    [QUOTE=Bobsalt;456156]Store owners have all said players lost interest in the game. My question: does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling – or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?[QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    From bitter experience it is definitely the lack of miniatures that dampens player interest, not the other way around. Stores need to stock reasonable quantities of different types to keep players coming back.
    That was actually a rhetorical question.  I think we all know that in situations like this the lack of product is what causes lack of interest, not the other way around. As to carrying reasonable quantities – well, when we are all coming back with the same story – that stores tell us they can’t get the product – I think that tells us where the problem lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    i can answer that one anecdotally at least. when the flgs 1st opened (late 2013 early 2014), there was small core of maybe 4-5 players besides myself that were interested in wog and buying at least a few minis. after their initial interest in minis was satiated during interim between the long waits between releases of new minis, i saw the majoritys interest for the game wane slowly and them move on to other games. it was, frankly, quite frustrating to watch.
    You make a great point here that is often overlooked about keeping a pipeline of new product, and I’ll answer your anecdote with another.  Back when the Axis & Allies naval game came out, the players here went CRAZY for it. The store kept ordering them and as soon as they came in – boom – they were gone. Players were placing orders by the case. One guy set up a campaign for them and soon there were a bunch of guys playing it every weekend at the store. Seeing this, the owner placed a huge order for the second set. Well, when the second set came out – nothing. Eventually he wound up putting them on clearance to get rid of them.

    What happened?

    Well, there was apparently a delay in the release of the second set, so there was a long period where there were no new ships coming out. Now, I don’t want to get into the myriad of mistakes that Wizards of the Coast made with their Axis & Allies lines (one day I may be using this as a case study of how to take a brilliant idea and fail if I go back to teaching), but the bottom line is that there was a long period of time where no new product was coming out. This allowed the game to get stale. There were a lot of holes in the various navies, and since the ships were at an odd scale there was no way to use 3rd party miniatures to fill in the gaps. By the time the next set of ships came out everybody had moved on to something else.

    Now, contrast that experience with another system – Flames of War. The people here have been playing this for at least 10 years, maybe longer. FoW has a completely different view – they are constantly releasing new product. It may be a small thing here or there, but the point is there is never a long period of time where nothing is coming out. Now, I don’t care for their rules, but they produce good quality miniatures, and with new stuff coming out consistently the players never see the game as getting stale. Now, they may stop playing for a while, but they never stop playing the game entirely and put all their stuff on eBay (which they did with the A&A naval game). In fact, the last time I was at the store here in Louisville about three weeks ago there were four guys in the process of setting up a FoW session.

    Ares is – in my opinion – really missing the boat here. They should be releasing something like the BoB pack at least once a year, with additional plane to support that release. As an example, if I were calling the shots (hey, I can dream), I’d do something like this:

    Do something like a Desert War pack in the spring. Put 2 Hurricanes and Me-109s in it, painted up in desert colors. Have repaints of current aircraft, like the He-111 and Stuka in desert colors come out at the same time. This way you can use the same molds to produce the planes, making them cheaper to produce. 3 months later come out with a couple of new planes to supplement the pack – maybe a pink/tan P-40 and an Italian fighter. For the fall, maybe a Ju-88 and a Blenheim. Then for Christmas, maybe do a limited print run of the B-24 Lady Be Good (look it up for an interesting story) or something like that.

    The next year, make the theme the eastern front (or whatever) and do the same sort of thing. There are enough aircraft from the war to go for years. Plus, you can reissue the same aircraft as repaints, and I’m sure a lot of folks would buy them rather than have to paint their own. No matter what, I’d have something unique come out every year for Christmas.

    To borrow a quote – “if you build it, they will come.”

  28. #78

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    If Ares looked on this site and at all the AAR's published for both WGF & WGS, how many non-Ares planes are used because a. There is a limited supply or b. That particular model is not made (yet), and how many times members have asked for and we just got in the way of the new BoB and squadron packs, this is the way they should go. A new theatre each year with possibly 1 or 2 extra models to flesh out last years theatre release. (Obviously the later is for WGS) for WGF it could be a year release, ie 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918 etc. (I have generalised heavily here).

    The 1 or 2 extra's for the precedig year could be the bombers, twin engined, 4 engined etc.

    People would then know what to roughly expect and would, in my OHO, keep the game alive.

    Neil
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  29. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdimeglio View Post
    There are a FEW models which are out of stock (in WW2, only the P-40 and the "green" He.111 - a few more for WW1) but the rest of the line is there in our warehouse, ready to be ordered.
    That's simply not true. I just recently had to contact Ares because I purchased a Landers P-51 and it was missing the flight base and plane card, and the seller was unwilling/unable to help. At first the CS rep indicated they could replace the components no problem, but I got a follow up email today indicating that they looked into it and don't have any stock.

    Oddly, they said I should contact them again in a month. Not sure what good that would do, I assume the rep was just confused from dealing with other product lines that Ares actually supports with things like reprints.

  30. #80

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    Maybe it was true at time of writing Ryan, and maybe the rep is not located at the warehouse and has to get the models in stock where they are - try them again in a month, you have little to lose & something to gain.

    "He is wise who watches"

  31. #81

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    To be clear, I'm not accusing Rob of intentionally lying. I think he believed what he said, just like the rep believed she could get me replacement parts when she first responded. But her second reply included the email chain where the warehouse flat told her they had no stock. I'll admit it is possible that the status changed in the roughly 1 1/2 months since Rob's post, but if so where did that stock go? Every WoG release that I've been witness to has gone the same way, models are released, stores get stock, that stock gets sold, products go out of stock and never get restocked. I've never seen any sign that anything ever gets reprinted or that there is more product available to be had after the initial distribution.

    Regardless, it makes Ares look disorganized and pretty amateurish when a CS rep promises a customer that they are going to provide a replacement and send it out immediately only to then turn around a week later and say that they don't have the product after all. Wouldn't you check that first before you go making promises to a customer? And if they actually believe that the situation is going to change in a month why not just say that there is going to be a slight delay but they will send the replacements as soon as possible? They know that I need the parts, why put the onus back on me with a vague "call us next month"? Why is it my job to guess if/when they are going to have stock again? I realize that the majority here view Ares through some heavily rose-tinted glasses but I have to say I wasn't impressed with how they handled my issue.

  32. #82

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    That's a pity then, maybe someone here will be able to assist, there are a few chaps that re-base/re-card their models who might be able to help you out with their spares, put a thread in the wanted section, you never know.

    "He is wise who watches"

  33. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Never Miss View Post
    That's simply not true. I just recently had to contact Ares because I purchased a Landers P-51 and it was missing the flight base and plane card, and the seller was unwilling/unable to help. At first the CS rep indicated they could replace the components no problem, but I got a follow up email today indicating that they looked into it and don't have any stock.

    Oddly, they said I should contact them again in a month. Not sure what good that would do, I assume the rep was just confused from dealing with other product lines that Ares actually supports with things like reprints.




    if you need it ive got some litko bases that i adapted to take wog pegs. youre welcome to one if you need it.

  34. #84

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    Thanks for the offer Phillip, it's not actually much of an issue for gameplay because I can sub in a base from one of my other P-51's and even the card too if I want. I was was just building a flight of checker nose Mustangs because it's one of my favorite liveries. I'm attempting to pursue it further with the retailer, but none of that is really relevant to this thread.

    Back to the topic at hand, I've never seen availability as a major issue, at least not in the sense of distribution and the supply chain. The larger problem is that there are a finite number of any given plane and Ares hasn't really shown an interest in reprinting even the most popular planes. It was bad enough that it took until series 5 to get a plane like the P-51, but it's going to be even worse once they are all finally sold out. What do you think happens when a potential new player sees the game being played and asks where they can get a cool Flying Tigers P-40 or Red Tail P-51 of their own and you have to tell them they are sold out with a snowball's chance in he!! of ever seeing a reprint?

    The other major sin has been the lack of starter sets, either one that gets continually reprinted or several themed revolving ones would be fine, but people need to be able to buy one single box that has everything they need to get started. Throw in the anemic trickle of new releases as the icing on top and its not hard to see why this game doesn't really gain any traction. The BoB stuff provided the best opportunity in years to serve as a jump start, but I'm afraid it's been almost completely squandered by a lack of additional new content in the pipeline.

  35. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    Other then here I order from Miniature Market. You can see that the popular planes are the first to go but they have others of the same plane but limited in numbers. They still have old WoW planes, D-520 and VAl. I understand that the D-520 is not a big seller.
    Just bought four D-520 from MM...checking....five left. In a Battle of France campaign using much the same planes as Battle of Britain, I would figure interest in these would go up. A good overlap of minis, plus makes buying some of the Fiat 42s a little more justifiable in usage.

    An Ares representative mentioned to me that they are sold out of Heinkels, so whatever is left in the distribution network is it for availability. One would hope they could break out of their usual reprint cycle to manufacturer some more of these to support the Battle of Britain release, or maybe have a Juunkers 88 or Dornier 17 in the next wave.

  36. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawn Patrol View Post
    An Ares representative mentioned to me that they are sold out of Heinkels, so whatever is left in the distribution network is it for availability. One would hope they could break out of their usual reprint cycle to manufacturer some more of these to support the Battle of Britain release, or maybe have a Juunkers 88 or Dornier 17 in the next wave.
    As a short term fix a Heinkel reprint would probably be quicker off the mark. I really hope Ares has plans to release more WGS bomber types in the near future, otherwise their lack of availability will be a major stumbling block to growing the game, particularly for campaign play which in my neck of the woods has had a resurgence as the preferred mode of play.

  37. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    As a short term fix a Heinkel reprint would probably be quicker off the mark. I really hope Ares has plans to release more WGS bomber types in the near future, otherwise their lack of availability will be a major stumbling block to growing the game, particularly for campaign play which in my neck of the woods has had a resurgence as the preferred mode of play.
    It seems to me that the number of Battle of Britain boxes sold will dictate whether they press for the reprint of the Heinkel soon. The copies at my local store haven't moved so that may not be the case.

  38. #88

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    Regardless, it makes Ares look disorganized and pretty amateurish when a CS rep promises a customer that they are going to provide a replacement and send it out immediately only to then turn around a week later and say that they don't have the product after all.
    Have you clarified if they were going to send an entire Landers mini for you, or just the missing base? its normal for distributors to have a selection of 'damaged stock' on hand for this very purpose, to send you just the base rather than a whole mini. It may well be that this is all they are out of, and they had not considered sending you an entire replacement plane. I am fairly certain that Landers is 100% still available. I bought a bunch from Ares recently. You may want to try asking for this? If they don't, send me a message I might be able to help.

    For the record, Ares HAS reprinted some top sellers immediately before. Duel Packs, Gotha's and Caproni's all got immediate reprints. The P40's and Heinkel sure would be welcome, but they just don't sell anywhere near as much as WW1 stuff, so I can imagine from Ares perspective they need to make some hard decisions here and there. Last thing they want is to reprint stock and have only 1 quarter of it sell. The reprinted Gothas and Caproni's sold out super fast too.

  39. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Last thing they want is to reprint stock and have only 1 quarter of it sell. The reprinted Gothas and Caproni's sold out super fast too.
    This is what Pre-Pub systems are for. Straight up? I think Wings of Glory P500s would fill pretty doggone quickly. This stuff is more like ASL than it is like X-Wing, with a small but very focused following that more or less punches the Buy button when it appears.

  40. #90

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    With many of the planes impossible to get and only one release per year none of the local retailers are willing to carry WGS. Special orders, yes. Shelf space, no. This is not likely to change given the current trend.

    I wonder, if a retailer wants more Thunderbolts (for example) can they pick which one's they want or do they need to order them in complete sets of three?

  41. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    With many of the planes impossible to get and only one release per year none of the local retailers are willing to carry WGS. Special orders, yes. Shelf space, no. This is not likely to change given the current trend.
    It's a chicken and egg problem Scott. My FLGS only had token WGS stock for the last three years and sold one or two aircraft here and there. Since Battle of Britain came out and we now have a reliable Australian distributor (Rivalsky) he has been stocking large numbers of aircraft - and they have been selling like hotcakes.

    IMHO the three pillars of success are public play, stock on the shelves and reliable distribution. We players can help with the first part and second parts, making games accessible to new and existing players and convincing store owners the system is worth their time and money. It is up to Ares to ensure continuity of production (new and reprints) and distribution. If any of those pillars are missing the game won't win and hold market share.

  42. #92


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    With many of the planes impossible to get and only one release per year none of the local retailers are willing to carry WGS. Special orders, yes. Shelf space, no. This is not likely to change given the current trend.

    I wonder, if a retailer wants more Thunderbolts (for example) can they pick which one's they want or do they need to order them in complete sets of three?
    I can tell you from the results of my admittedly informal questioning of game store owners (earlier in this thread) they much prefer to stock their shelves with stuff that they can reliably be sure they will be able to restock if/when it sells. Why give shelf space to something you may or may not be able to restock when there is plenty of other things out there that you know will sell and you can restock?

    They also want fresh, new product on their shelves. Other games of this type usually have something in the pipeline to look forward to. Going too long without anything new will cause players to lose interest Ė particularly if stores wonít (or canít) stock the stuff that has been released. If a player walks in and they see the same WoG planes that have been sitting there for months (or any at all) Ė yawn. But 3 or 4 pegs of new Star Wars X-Wing? Face it Ė games that are steadily releasing new product are the ones that players are going to be enthused about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    This is what Pre-Pub systems are for. Straight up? I think Wings of Glory P500s would fill pretty doggone quickly. This stuff is more like ASL than it is like X-Wing, with a small but very focused following that more or less punches the Buy button when it appears.
    I donít know what kind of numbers they would have to get in pledges to make it worth their while to do reprints. I suspect a lot more than 500. Still, I like your idea. Iím not sure if they would ever go this route, but if they did Iím in. My first pledge would be for around 20-25 planes. Of course, then youíre back to that issue where they donít sell directly to the consumer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    It seems to me that the number of Battle of Britain boxes sold will dictate whether they press for the reprint of the Heinkel soon. The copies at my local store haven't moved so that may not be the case.
    Given what Iíve seen, and what Iíve read on here so far, I donít think sales of the BoB starter sets are really much of an indicator of anything. The store here in Louisville sold all of their BoB sets right away and werenít able to get them (or anything else) back in stock. Another store I was in just this past week in Owensboro, KY had a set, and the owner told me it had been there for ďmonths.Ē The set will sell where the game is popular. If the game isnít popular Ė and especially if there isnít any inventory of single-plane packs to back up the starter sets Ė the starter set wonít sell. That brings us back to the rhetorical question I asked earlier of which comes first Ė does the lack of interest by players cause the miniatures to stop selling Ė or is it the inability of the stores to get the miniatures that causes players to lose interest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Never Miss View Post
    Back to the topic at hand, I've never seen availability as a major issue, at least not in the sense of distribution and the supply chain. The larger problem is that there are a finite number of any given plane and Ares hasn't really shown an interest in reprinting even the most popular planes. It was bad enough that it took until series 5 to get a plane like the P-51, but it's going to be even worse once they are all finally sold out. What do you think happens when a potential new player sees the game being played and asks where they can get a cool Flying Tigers P-40 or Red Tail P-51 of their own and you have to tell them they are sold out with a snowball's chance in he!! of ever seeing a reprint?

    The other major sin has been the lack of starter sets, either one that gets continually reprinted or several themed revolving ones would be fine, but people need to be able to buy one single box that has everything they need to get started. Throw in the anemic trickle of new releases as the icing on top and its not hard to see why this game doesn't really gain any traction. The BoB stuff provided the best opportunity in years to serve as a jump start, but I'm afraid it's been almost completely squandered by a lack of additional new content in the pipeline.
    You make some great points here.

    With the release of ďDunkirkĒ they had an opportunity to make a really big splash with the game. With the film being so successful that period of history was more in the forefront of peopleís minds. They should have been ready to capitalize upon it. As a game manufacturer, how often are you going to have a major motion picture come out that plays right into a game youíre already producing? They should have had not just BoB starter sets out, but should have put together pre-packaged BoB cases Ė say 24 a]single-plane packs that were all part of the BoB theme. Have a 3 or 4 scenario campaign based on the evac. Instead Ė missed opportunities.

    Although I personally HAVE seen major issues with the supply chain, it canít be denied that the larger overall problem is that Ares isnít releasing new stuff or reissuing stuff thatís no longer available. To borrow from your example, there are certain aircraft that are iconic in peopleís minds when they think of WWII. Among them would be the P-40. To illustrate to folks outside of the U.S. Ė for an American who wants to play this game, not having a P-40 readily available would be almost like being from the UK and there not being a Spitfire (or at least a Hurricane) available. The situation with the P-51 isnít as bad, although the now-unavailable Ellington P-51 is the most striking looking of the three available. The problem is Ė what happens when the other two P-51s slowly disappear and there isnít a reprint? A potential new player in the U.S. not being able to get a P-40 is bad. Not being able to get a P-51 would virtually guarantee he isnít going to get into the game.

    As to starter sets Ė I donít think Ares has grasped how important something like these are. The importance of being able to pick up a box with 4 aircraft ready to go, with everything you need to play the game out of the box, canít be overstated, and is probably the most important thing of all. Coming in right behind it in importance would be that there be plentiful stock sitting right on the shelf next to the starter sets. For BoB, there should be Stukas, Me-110s, Hurricanes, Lancasters, - and yes, He111s Ė next to every BoB starter set. Thatís how you grow your game.

    Imagine the potential buyer pulling a BoB starter off the shelf and asking if thereís anything else to go with it and being told by the store that they donít get restock, probably canít get what he wants, even as a special order, that several items are completely sold out, you might be able to find some stuff online if theyíre still available, and youíll find that the time between new releases is very long. At this point is that guy still going to buy that starter set?

    I donít have to imagine because this is a summary of my experience since I played the game at Origins three months ago. In my first game I discovered that this is a really good system Ė easy to learn, and fun to play. And I really do enjoy it. However, I will be candid. If I had known then what I know now I would not have sat down for my first game and would have just walked past the table.

    I want to get deep into this game. I really do. But the game wonít let me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    As a short term fix a Heinkel reprint would probably be quicker off the mark. I really hope Ares has plans to release more WGS bomber types in the near future, otherwise their lack of availability will be a major stumbling block to growing the game, particularly for campaign play which in my neck of the woods has had a resurgence as the preferred mode of play.
    I think Ares is really, really off the mark here. In any other business, if you have a line of products and one far and away out-sells the others to the point of selling out, what do you do? You make more of them, of course.

    If I understand this properly, the planes are made out of pieces, each of which is made from a mold. They are then assembled. Next, the planes are painted the color of the underside of the plane. From there, the top and side surfaces are a sort of decal that is applied Ė I guess itís like the wraps they make for cars for advertising?

    If this is all correct, it really opens up opportunity for Ares.

    Letís say your plan is to make 10,000 complete units Ė say, He-111s in splinter camouflage. What you should do is make enough components to complete 20,000. Finish and ship out your original 10,000 units. Then, have your artists use the decal template to make a different scheme Ė say, the desert tan from 1942-43. You make these and then release them a year (or six months) later. Would people who had already bought a couple of the splinter camouflage planes shell out to buy two more in the desert scheme a year later? You tell me. I know I would. The ability to repeat this with different models of aircraft is limited only to what was done historically Ė in other words, youíd start to run out of options in around 20 or 30 years. Doing something like this should lower the production costs, since youíre ordering or manufacturing larger quantities of all of the pieces. You also give the impression of releasing new product and making the game seem fresh Ė when all youíre doing is releasing repaints of whatís already been released.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    If Ares looked on this site and at all the AAR's published for both WGF & WGS, how many non-Ares planes are used because a. There is a limited supply or b. That particular model is not made (yet), and how many times members have asked for and we just got in the way of the new BoB and squadron packs, this is the way they should go. A new theatre each year with possibly 1 or 2 extra models to flesh out last years theatre release. (Obviously the later is for WGS) for WGF it could be a year release, ie 1915, 1916, 1917, 1918 etc. (I have generalised heavily here).

    The 1 or 2 extra's for the precedig year could be the bombers, twin engined, 4 engined etc.

    People would then know what to roughly expect and would, in my OHO, keep the game alive.

    Neil
    The use of so much unofficial product in the game tells me several things.

    First, that the game system is solid, and, among those already playing it Ė popular. After all, no one goes to the trouble of making stuff for a game system thatís not any good or that no one plays. With WoG, there is virtually a cottage industry producing various items for the game. Resin cast planes, decals, bases, replacements for propellers, tokens, markers, etc. Ė Iíve been in gaming most of my life and I have never seen a game that has this quantity of fan-produced materials to support it. In fact, itís reached a point where I would say thereís a legitimate question of whether the third-party products are supporting the game, or if the official products are supporting a larger cottage industry.

    Second, the fact that so many basic aircraft of WWII are only available third-party shows that Ares has done a poor job of expanding their line. My understanding of the history of the game is a little murky, but I think the game has been in its present iteration since 2012. If thatís correct, the game has been out for right at 5 years in its present iteration. And after that 5 years there are still a lot of holes in the catalog of even basic plane types. Why, after 5 years, is there no Sturmovik? Or Mosquito? Why no bombers for Japan, Italy, or Soviets? You get the idea. I understand you canít release every plane Ė I personally would love the planes from the late 30s, like the Fairey Battle or the P-36, and you canít release everything at once Ė but for there to be a lack of so many basic aircraft types after 5 years is beyond me. I also question some of their decisions on what to release. As an example, for the rumored next set, why release a Me-410, which wasnít all that common (a little over a thousand built) instead of the ubiquitous Ju-88 (over 15,000 built)?

    Third, the fact that there is so much third-party stuff out there makes me wonder if it hurts the long-term health of the game. By that I mean this Ė if you already have unofficial versions of a plane, are you going to buy official ones when they come out? Speaking for me, unless the official release is very different than what I have, I wonít. Letís say I have 4 Ju-88s (which I do, waiting to be painted). I plan to paint all of them in European colors. If Ares then releases a Ju-88 with the same or similar paint scheme, Iím not going to be interested. I wonít be buying any F4Fs or Dauntlesses for the same reason. I already have 4 of each from Merit. Once they are painted up, Iím not going to want or need official ones that are in a similar paint job. This represents potential lost sales to Ares.

    I must say that I have serious doubts about the future health of this game.

  43. #93

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    "However, I will be candid. If I had known then what I know now I would not have sat down for my first game and would have just walked past the table.

    I want to get deep into this game. I really do. But the game won’t let me."


    bob im glad you did and got into the game (i was at origins as well so we probably chewed some of the same sky).

    it is possible to get deep into the game (im living proof) despite the fact that ares doesnt make it easy. you have to vigilant, and being lucky doesnt hurt as well. its frustrating, but it makes "the hunt" all the more satisfying.

  44. #94

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    I haven't gotten into the WWII version of WoG yet so pardon my thoughts. Nothing is really perfect.

    I do think the lack of supply is really the key factor that hurts this game, WWI or WWII, the most. You may get into it but quickly find that it is hard to expand you collection. The simple truth is that if it isn't available it can't sell, no sales no new players.

    The next is I see very little promotion of the game. When I do read about games at the conventions it is often played with planes that are either custom or unavailable. New player really can't get the planes they just fell in love with. I got into X-Wing because I walked into a game store and saw someone with a Millennium Falcon. I hadn't played the game but I was sold on it already. Had I been told the reprint was years away or this was an unavailable custom product I would have walked away.

    X-Wing has a good selection of ships and many of there MSRP is actually higher than WoG. But they are usually available. Yet X-Wing suffers from being a very complex gaming system that is limiting new people from really buying in and pushing older players out. WoG, please don't get the same way X-Wing did!

    I don't think we need a constant flow of new shineys. I won't disagree that having new waves does help, as long as they are not X-Wing is type. But we don't need them every quarter either. Having said that it would be very helpful if Ares announced the next release and schedule. It would show that Ares is interested in the game too. Right now, it does feel like a back burner project.

    I don't have the answers, but I do know that both promotion and availability are requirements for a game.

  45. #95

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    I agree promo could be improved for sure. Something focussing on whats 'in the works' thats official.

    I would also love some way to get some posters to give to retail stores to hang near their stock as well, some banners or things like that.

  46. #96

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    Even knowing definitively what is up next would be helpful. Will it be BoB bombers or War in the Pacific? Has the "wave" of four planes releases been scrapped for something more thematic? Ares should look hard at what Warlord Games does with Bolt Action for some clues on how to promote and sustain a WWII game. There are some great promotional and thematic components to the game that can be implemented, even if greatly scaled back.

    One element that needs immediate attention is to make the Scenario books match product availability. The BoB box came with a great scenario book but many of the planes in it are hard to get and/or not available in stores. You simply cannot release printed content and follow up with a soft announcement that maybe a year later there will be a release of some bombers that will make more of the scenarios viable. If Ares wants to pull back from the model business and take an Osprey approach to providing only the source materials and possibly the decks to support the miniatures then fine, make the change. The lack of any communication is like blacking out at 10,000 feet...

    Hey, look I just checked out the Ares website and found out there are new planes. Seriously, they are indicated as "NEW": Special Packs. There is even more issues for a new interested player when they click on the Airplane Packs link. They will see Pacific theater planes but no Zero or Wildcat?!? Did someone miss something? The new customer may also need help finding the link for the iconic Dauntless because all they will see are one's with fancy paint jobs and a French version.

    The Wings of Glory franchise has a great design (designer) the components are excellent and this is the best online community I have been a part of. I also really like the development of the point system as this is an altitude peg up if Ares ever wants to attract competitive gamers. Most importantly, WGS is fun to play. Organizationally Ares needs to step up!

  47. #97


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    I agree promo could be improved for sure. Something focussing on whats 'in the works' thats official.

    I would also love some way to get some posters to give to retail stores to hang near their stock as well, some banners or things like that.
    I don’t like to be the guy that tells someone that “this won’t work.” But… “this won’t work.”

    Don’t get me wrong – having PoP materials such as posters is a good idea. The problem is that before you start thinking about the issue of sending out PoP materials you first have to get stores to carry the product. Whether it’s due to poor distribution or lack of product released, the bottom line is that most stores do not carry this product. Before getting into things like merchandising materials Ares would have to prove to stores that they are committed to the line and will take the necessary steps to make sure that there are no bottlenecks in the pipeline. This is mission one. Sending out PoP materials – no matter how well they are done – is at this point a waste of money that could be used on other things more important.

  48. #98

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    You've missed a key part of the perspective I'm coming from
    I'm a distributor in Australia, I have retail stores who have invested in the game and now want to improve sales, so promo material for them to hang up around the store, tournament kits they can use to drive sales through peoples competitive natures, all this is the kind of stuff they are asking for.

  49. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdimeglio View Post
    On this subject - Please know that we are welcome to support stores with free Battle of Britain demo kits. If you have a FLGS in your area interested in presenting/promoting the game, he can contact us at events@aresgames.eu to request one.
    Back at the end of July Roberto posted about BoB Demo kits. Get your FLGS to contact the email address and order a kit for promotional purposes.

  50. #100

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    Oh wow I never knew about this, although I think I saw something shared on facebook that looked like it was USA specific?

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