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Thread: Maxim Stoppages

  1. #1

    Default Maxim Stoppages

    I have come across this information whilst browsing a couple of times recently and thought it may be of interest.

    The German and the British machine guns, being the same basic design, [from the Maxim] responded almost identically to defective ammunition, to wear and tear and to the failure of component parts.
    Cartridges were fed, loaded, locked in place, fired and extracted somewhere between eight to ten times per second, and the lock had to withstand pressure between 45,000 and 55,000 pounds per square inch. The duty cycle of the complicated mechanism was quite heavy, and the moving parts and springs were prone to high rates of wear. In aerial use, the close- tolerance parts were subjected to the extreme cold of high altitude flying in winter; an environment for which the original design was not intended.
    It was not uncommon for a fighter pilot, who had finally caught up with a high flying two-seater or airship, to have his machine guns fire just one round and then refuse to reload. The hump on the Sopwith Camel was actually a chamber which directed hot air from the engine onto the breech end of the guns to prevent that from happening.
    The crank handles (or cocking handle/lever), which came in various shapes and sizes to suit aircraft types, made one backwards and forwards movement through an arc of about 110 degrees for each round fired. A jam would cause the handle to cease motion in one of four positions. The position in which the handle stopped was a reliable indicator of the basic type of jam which had occurred. Each position was known by a number, and machine-gun jams were described, for example, as ‘a number two stoppage’.

    MAXIM-TYPE MACHINE-GUN STOPPAGE POSITIONS

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    A number 1 or 4 stoppage could be cleared in the air. The pilot would extract the defective cartridge by – pulling the crank handle back to the far stop and then releasing it. The spring return would feed the next cartridge into the firing chamber.

    A number 2 stoppage caused by a tight cartridge case could often be cleared in the air. A small hammer, sometimes a wooden mallet, (secured by a strap) was carried in the cockpit, and the pilot would apply it vigorously to the crank arm to force it forwards to position 4. The expression: ‘the pilot hammered his machine gun’, means exactly that; not as portrayed in the movies as beating on the breech with clenched fists.

    A number 2 stoppage, caused by the previous cartridge case having separated during extraction, would have the new cartridge telescoped into the broken piece. The crank arm. when hammered, would not move. To clear such a jam was a major operation that could only be performed on the ground. (No.2 becomes aptly named !)

    A number 3 stoppage was generally impossible to clear in the air. Both a number 2 and number 3 stoppage could be caused by the pilot himself, usually a novice who had indulged in over-long bursts of fire. This overheated the breech mechanism thus destroying the lubricant and causing the delicate parts to seize.

    A component failure, frozen moisture, dirt and/or congealed lubricant could also cause any one of the four types of stoppages.
    http://ourairports.biz/?p=6277

    Well, there it is, some, like me, may have found that of interest.. here's a LMG 08/15 in action where you can see the handle in operation: (shooting starts at 8min 30sec)
    Last edited by flash; 05-15-2017 at 01:23.

    "He is wise who watches"

  2. #2

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    Very interesting. Thanks Dave.

  3. #3

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    Very nice analysis, Dave. Rep-worthy.

  4. #4

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    Really interesting ... my mind is already thinking toward how we could use this info ....


    Although, knowing my luck, maybe I should leave well enough alone.


    Very rep-worthy.
    Rep gun is, of course, jammed

  5. #5

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    Great stuff Dave!

    My Rep Gun is NOT jammed!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  6. #6

  7. #7

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    nice! i see youve linked to firearms jesus (ian from forgotten weapons) for demonstration. excellent!

  8. #8

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    Great clip there Dave, gratifying to see 100 year old weapons being kept in such good working order.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    nice! i see youve linked to firearms jesus (ian from forgotten weapons) for demonstration. excellent!
    It was the best demo of the weapon I found with a quick scan - there was a Chinese type 24 maxim shown by someone else - funnily enough it kept stopping but the action seemed different as the user just pushed the crank forward to continue firing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Really interesting ... my mind is already thinking toward how we could use this info ....
    Although, knowing my luck, maybe I should leave well enough alone...
    Me too - look at the minor furore I caused last time !

    "He is wise who watches"

  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    Great post Dave!
    That was fascinating information particularly the drawings.

  11. #11

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    A good article, Dave, and an interesting video to go with it.

  12. #12

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    Thanks for the history. great information

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Great stuff Dave!

    My Rep Gun is NOT jammed!
    That is very good Tim.. would appear mine is also clear

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  14. #14

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    Coincidence? Rep gun jammed.

    This is the info I have in my head when discussing the unreal gun jam mechanic in our game. It also explains why in Collishaw's biography, he would test his guns and immediately turn for home when they jammed. He didn't say why, but with the above info, and plenty of experience, he would know that the jam was not clearable in the air.

    Like rudder jams that go away (sometimes temporary in real life), do we really want to 'fix' the mechanic, and take out the fun by introducing game-ending events?

    For those who want a simulation as opposed to a game, the info above is a guide. How many times did each occur? Under what conditions? That would need a basis, too. Rookies with trigger control issues could get #3s more often, and higher altitudes with unheated guns could have different jam rates.

    I really like the simplicity Andrea incorporated into this game, when I start looking at things like this.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    .. do we really want to 'fix' the mechanic, and take out the fun by introducing game-ending events?...
    The thread was posted for interest and information rather than as any suggestion to tamper with the jam mechanic as it stands. It could be a bit like playing the 'unreachable machine guns' option we have on some machines.

    I dare say something reasonably straight forward could be worked out within the available framework for those that wanted to and it need not be a game-ending event. Playing the guns as separate weapons on a twin mount, as Andrea has already provided as an 'unofficial' optional rule, would be a must to make it viable I would think, playing with single guns it could be a spoiler though.
    It could allow an option for easy fix #1 & #4 jams to be quickly cleared in a single phase, a #2 fixable jam cleared in three phases (hammer); a #3 & #2 unfixable jam stops it for the game.

    Taking a quick scan of the decks - in an A deck a red 0/GJ could signify a 3 or 2 unfixable jam, a green 0/GJ, or, green 2/GJ could be #1, or, #4 type jams taking one phase to fix. The red 2/GJ could be a fixable #2 jam that takes three phases to fix.
    In a B deck the two red 0/GJ could signify a #3 or #2 unfixable jam, the two green 0/GJ, or, green 1/GJ could be #1, or, #4 type jams taking one phase to fix. The red 1/GJ could be a fixable #2 jam that takes three phases to fix.
    This keeps it within the existing framework without introducing dice or the multiple reasons why a jam could happen. I will have to give it a test run one day.

    "He is wise who watches"

  16. #16

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    Dave,
    Both of us have gone down the rabbit hole!

    I can see this cropping up in the next campaign game my buddy and I play.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Dave, Both of us have gone down the rabbit hole! I can see this cropping up in the next campaign game my buddy and I play.
    Well, why not Mike. A campaign between experienced pilots is probably the best place to use it.

    "He is wise who watches"



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