Not all pilots are "created" equal.

[Walt Powell]

Before I start my thoughts on the title subject, I'd like to say that I've learned very quickly to ask here before putting time and effort into what I think may be a new discovery. There is so much talent, knowledge and intelligence here (from around the world) that my sons and I have quickly discovered that (if we ask) we will usually find that someone has already had (and expanded upon) our "new idea".

I also wanted to note at the outset that we have been reading both the Traverse City League Rules and the Knights of the Air Rules. I'm looking at ways to combine (or take the best from) both for the boys and I to adopt; or maybe simply adopt one or the other.

Soooo...to the subject: "Not all pilots are created equal." We've been thinking about adding a little more RPG to our pilot profiles; giving our pilots more individual "personality". Remember the old "Dungeons and Dragons" format?...where you rolled dice to "create" your character and determine his (or her) beginning skill levels? As I see it, new WWI pilots each brought their own skills and abilities, varying intelligence and physical strengths to their new profession of piloting. Let's call them aptitudes and attributes; God-given, hereditary, environmental, learned and/or other. Some absorbed and applied their training more quickly; others had more flight time and hours of training before going to their frontline units. Still others climbed into the cockpit with little more than courage or patriotism in their hearts.

What if we could reflect this in our WoW pilots? What I propose is that, when "creating" a new pilot (and/or observer) profile, you rolled dice to set a number in each category of abilities or attributes. In 'D&D' they were characterized as STRENGTH, INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, DEXTERITY, CONSTITUTION AND CHARISMA...then ATTACK, ARMOR CLASS and HEALTH. A few basic "Ace" skills (NOT second level skills, as defined in the KotA and Traverse City rules) would be aligned with each of these attributes...maybe one each. If you rolled a high enough number, you got that skill as a new pilot coming out of training. Too low and you don't. You roll for each attribute, but (even if you manage to acquire that single skill available at each attribute), you can only keep two. You roll to randomly decide which two these are. This would keep the skill-level in check; no Supermen. Afterwards, your pilot/observer would come away from "training" with 0, 1 or 2 "enhanced" attributes.

For "Health Points" (or damage your pilot can take): in the KotA rules every new pilot starts out with 25 HP. But not all pilots were of the same physical speciman. What if you rolled a dice to determine a number higher, the same or lower than this for your new pilot? Not a lot...say, with 25 being the "average build/physical condition" of a new pilot: roll (on a d6) a 1 and start with 15 HP, a 2 roll starts with 20 HP, a 3 or 4 gets the "average" 25 HP, a roll of 5 gains 30 HP and, finally, a roll of 6 is the peek of health at 35 HP.

I'm not sure if ATTACK (damage you can do) or ARMOR CLASS (how well protected...or "lucky"...you are from attack) could be figured in somehow; but I'm playing with it. I also haven't figured out which "Ace" skills could be aligned with the different attributes. Some fit in nicely, though. Of course, the D&D framework doesn't have to be all-inclusive. We may add or trim attributes that we would roll for.

So...my question: has anyone already done it? Or should we try to develop something? Of course, this may not be something that appeals to everyone. But, for us, it would add some real "individual character" to our pilots; more than just a name that we created (or simply a choice of Allied or Central Powers). The boys are already enthusiastic about creating a little background history for their pilots (hometown, date of birth, what brought him to flight school, previous service in the trenches, etc). Yes, they have wonderful imaginations. A system like this would bring even more RPG depth to their pilots/observers. It would also give some pilots more chance than others of surviving longer in the air, while others would live the proverbial "three weeks" or less. Also realistic. As the game developers indicated, WoW is a great platform from which to add your own imagination.

Any thoughts?

[MayorJim]

Walt,

You've come up with a pretty interesting idea. We've been playing around with the Knight's campaign rules; and have looked through the Traverse City ones as well. Our thought was to maybe just randomly pick one or two ace skills as found in the Knight's campaign. Rol some dice, pick a card, whatever. We haven't done it yet...our thought was to maybe first get beyond the 2nd scenario in Knight's before we fiddle too much.

[Walt Powell]

Walt,

You've come up with a pretty interesting idea. We've been playing around with the Knight's campaign rules; and have looked through the Traverse City ones as well. Our thought was to maybe just randomly pick one or two ace skills as found in the Knight's campaign. Rol some dice, pick a card, whatever. We haven't done it yet...our thought was to maybe first get beyond the 2nd scenario in Knight's before we fiddle too much.

Thanks for the input, MayorJim! We're not even looking a this as just a "campaign" thin, but also a first stage to all our games. We like the idea of breathing some life into our pilots. Of course, we treat all our games, in a sesne, as part of a bigger cam[aign (of sorts) as we/I allow the obys to carry over victories from even the smallest game; so long as they document the sortie.

Do you know if anyone has dome anything like this? It would fit in nicely as simply an amusing precurser or first stage to the KotA campaign rules. If we get the balance right, it wouldn't overly affect the game; just make for better (and some weaker) pilots.

So...the boys asked: what if I role a weak and/or less than healthy pilot? My answer: like life, you make what you can with what you got.

[AlgyLacey]

Not a bad motto for life.

"you make what you can with what you got."

[Walt Powell]

Any thoughts on the concept I outlined, AlgyLacey? Do you know if it's already been done...or something similar? hate to reinvent the wheel if we can simply used someone else's system.

[Pooh]

There was a game called Crimson Skies that was about aerial combat in a mythical 1930s where the USA broke up into a dozen or so independant and mutually hostile nations. It was a fun & very silly game. They had pilot characteristics something like what you're talking about. It should be very easy to convert to a Wings of War format.

I'll post the relevant info if I can go back and find the rules.

Pooh

[Pooh]

I found my bundle of Crimson Skies Modules, though not the rules.
Here are their characteristics:
Natural Touch - Measure of how in tune the pilot is with his machine. In Crimson Skies all It modifies all the skill checks for pushing your plane too hard (redlining the engine, turning to hard or stalling)

Sixth Sense - Don't remember exactly what this does. In WoW you might use it to help determine if a plane has tailing.

Dead Eye - Modifies the to-hit calculation

Steady hand - In Crimson Skies you can to a certain extent hit a target in specific parts of the plane. This is a measure of how good you are at it.

Consititution - How much injury a pilot can handle. In WoW you might use it to see if you bail out or not.

Quick Draw - initiative - who gets to shoot 1st.

Many of these correspond to ace skills. You could use the characteristics to determine which ace skills you can select. For example: If you want an ace skill that lets you use any non steep manouver coming out of an immellman, you'd better have enough points in natural touch.

Pooh

[Walt Powell]

I found my bundle of Crimson Skies Modules, though not the rules.
Here are their characteristics:
Natural Touch - Measure of how in tune the pilot is with his machine. In Crimson Skies all It modifies all the skill checks for pushing your plane too hard (redlining the engine, turning to hard or stalling)

Sixth Sense - Don't remember exactly what this does. In WoW you might use it to help determine if a plane has tailing.

Dead Eye - Modifies the to-hit calculation

Steady hand - In Crimson Skies you can to a certain extent hit a target in specific parts of the plane. This is a measure of how good you are at it.

Consititution - How much injury a pilot can handle. In WoW you might use it to see if you bail out or not.

Quick Draw - initiative - who gets to shoot 1st.

Many of these correspond to ace skills. You could use the characteristics to determine which ace skills you can select. For example: If you want an ace skill that lets you use any non steep manouver coming out of an immellman, you'd better have enough points in natural touch.

Pooh

Thanks for the input, Pooh!

[Bruce]

Hi Walt. I like your idea but it's a little too detailed for my group. HOWEVER, we do something a little bit down this road.

Here are the details on my current Allied Fighter Pilots - each of us maintains a Squadron's worth (4 pilots) of Pillots. As they die we replace them from a common replacement pool drawn at random.

Bruce's Allied Fighter Pilots
Tommy Thompson – Veteran ACE, 6 Kills, 9 Experience points – last sortie (1 kill) on 21 Nov; ACE ABILITIES - TAILING AIM and EVASIVE FLYER; EXPERIENCE SKILLS - RIDE TAILWINDS, UTILIZE HEADWINDS and BULLET CHECKER.
Aldus Harcourt – Veteran, 3 Kills, 6 Exp pts; last sortie (1 kill) on 21 Nov; ACE ABILITY - EXCEPTIONAL FLYING; EXPERIENCE SKILLS - LONG-SHOT and PUT-OUT FIRE.
Barnaby Smythe-Jones – Veteran, 1 Kill, 3 Exp pts; last sortie (1 kill) on 14 Nov; EXPERIENCE SKILL - BULLET CHECKER.
Bruce Vickers – Novice ACE, 3 kills, 1 Exp pt; Last (only) sortie (3 kills) on 31 Oct; ACE ABILITY - QUICK SHOOTER.

ALLIED REPLACEMENT POOL PILOTS
Donald Spindross – “Damned good flyer but no sense of direction”; may get “Ride Tail-Winds” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Harland Topp – “Flies well enough, but can’t sit still – bloody annoying”; may get “Daredevil I” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Samuel Kennedy – “A very keen eye indeed and learns quickly”; may get “Longshot” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
David Fenetty – “Passed flight school, but is heavy handed – wrecked 2 AC”; May get “Bullet Checker” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
William Scarff – “A keener in all respects, but not put-on”; may get “Put-out Fire” after 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Jeremy Vickman – “Flies like a veteran – uncanny”; may get “Aerial Acrobat” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Todd Lines – “serious fellow – middling results”; may get “Bullet Checker” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Charles Priddle – “Picky, picky, picky little blighter, but he’s right most of the time”; may get “Tricky Flyer” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Michael Prescott – “Has an uncanny feel for his engine’s performance”; may get “Utilize Headwinds” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Dudley Potter – “Two left feet; no sense of touch; highly placed Daddie; ‘nuff said”; NO early Experience Skill.

So, we inject some "life" into our pilots by giving each of them a name, a 1 or 2 line training report, and access to an early Experience Skill (or not) that is usually representative of their training report. This early skill may be taken after only 1 sortie, or it may be declined in favour of waiting until 3 Experience Points have been accumulated in order to get the skill of your choice. We award Experience Points for each sortie survived (1 pt), and for completing certain missions (usually 1 "bonus" Experience pt).

An approach similar to this, but more detailed in your case, would work too. Just create your rookie pilot's "Profile" and throw him into the pool to be selected at random as a replacement. We lose pilots frequently in this game, so we don't spend a lot of time creating detailed histories, skills, attributes, etc, but just this little bit of "personal history" and an early skill that reflects the guy's inherent ability makes it more enjoyable for us. Oh, yes, I also have sortie log-books for each of my pilots/observers ..... but I'm the obsessive one in our group.

[Charlie3]

Hi Walt...You have a well thought out system that takes more to explain than it will to actually use, this is always a good thing in my opinion.

Some of our players have hinted at trying something of this kind at one time or another, but no one has ever put in the time to make a system. I am all for the idea that no two pilots should be the same out of the blocks, but it seems to be enough for our players that they have their own strengths and weaknesses as players. To this end I have never pushed the idea.

I don't really see any playability issues with your Pilot Generator System. If this is what will make the games more intresting for your group of fliers, by all means have at it!

[Walt Powell]

Hi Walt...You have a well thought out system that takes more to explain than it will to actually use, this is always a good thing in my opinion.
I don't really see any playability issues with your Pilot Generator System. If this is what will make the games more intresting for your group of fliers, by all means have at it!

Thanks, Charlie3. I think we'll give 'er a go! I don't mind the "engineering work", in fact it adds to the fun for me. And, yes, you're right...the explanation was as much work as the thought process and planning of the thing! It looks like I'll be able to dovetail it nicely with the KotA rules as the major framework...and some Traverse City Rules ideas tossed in (I like their Critical Hit Cards for Explosions... and a few other things that might give a slight "bouquet" to the KotA rules). My Pilot Generator System (a nice name) will simply be one of the "setup" steps to our games and/or campaigns...and should add a little flavor. Thanks for your input!

[Walt Powell]

we do something a little bit down this road.

Here are the details on my current Allied Fighter Pilots - each of us maintains a Squadron's worth (4 pilots) of Pillots. As they die we replace them from a common replacement pool drawn at random.

Bruce's Allied Fighter Pilots
Tommy Thompson – Veteran ACE, 6 Kills, 9 Experience points – last sortie (1 kill) on 21 Nov; ACE ABILITIES - TAILING AIM and EVASIVE FLYER; EXPERIENCE SKILLS - RIDE TAILWINDS, UTILIZE HEADWINDS and BULLET CHECKER.
Aldus Harcourt – Veteran, 3 Kills, 6 Exp pts; last sortie (1 kill) on 21 Nov; ACE ABILITY - EXCEPTIONAL FLYING; EXPERIENCE SKILLS - LONG-SHOT and PUT-OUT FIRE.
Barnaby Smythe-Jones – Veteran, 1 Kill, 3 Exp pts; last sortie (1 kill) on 14 Nov; EXPERIENCE SKILL - BULLET CHECKER.
Bruce Vickers – Novice ACE, 3 kills, 1 Exp pt; Last (only) sortie (3 kills) on 31 Oct; ACE ABILITY - QUICK SHOOTER.

ALLIED REPLACEMENT POOL PILOTS
Donald Spindross – “Damned good flyer but no sense of direction”; may get “Ride Tail-Winds” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Harland Topp – “Flies well enough, but can’t sit still – bloody annoying”; may get “Daredevil I” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Samuel Kennedy – “A very keen eye indeed and learns quickly”; may get “Longshot” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
David Fenetty – “Passed flight school, but is heavy handed – wrecked 2 AC”; May get “Bullet Checker” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
William Scarff – “A keener in all respects, but not put-on”; may get “Put-out Fire” after 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Jeremy Vickman – “Flies like a veteran – uncanny”; may get “Aerial Acrobat” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Todd Lines – “serious fellow – middling results”; may get “Bullet Checker” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Charles Priddle – “Picky, picky, picky little blighter, but he’s right most of the time”; may get “Tricky Flyer” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Michael Prescott – “Has an uncanny feel for his engine’s performance”; may get “Utilize Headwinds” after only 1 sortie in lieu of waiting for 3 sorties.
Dudley Potter – “Two left feet; no sense of touch; highly placed Daddie; ‘nuff said”; NO early Experience Skill.

So, we inject some "life" into our pilots by giving each of them a name, a 1 or 2 line training report, and access to an early Experience Skill (or not) that is usually representative of their training report. This early skill may be taken after only 1 sortie, or it may be declined in favour of waiting until 3 Experience Points have been accumulated in order to get the skill of your choice. We award Experience Points for each sortie survived (1 pt), and for completing certain missions (usually 1 "bonus" Experience pt).

Bruce, I'd like to know more about some of your ideas: 1) Do you simply randomly generate the training comments or draw them somehow? 2) Some of your skills are new to me (Ride Tailwinds, Utilize Headwinds, Put-out Fire). Can you give me a list of the "skills" you use and how they come into play? I may add some to our game. Thanks! Walt

[Bruce]

Hi back Walt.
I tried to send you a Personal E-Mail (PM) through this site but it appears that you have not given the site permission to forward PMs to you.

So, in brief, I generate all Replacement Pool aircrew training reports myself for our group's 10 members. I maintain one replacement pilot for each Pilot Experience Skill and one "No early skill". Same for observers.
Check-out the "Files" section of this site to find "Skills", but we have modified some of these and added a few of our own e.g. "Put-out fire" which reads "May attempt to put-out FIRE (50% chance) by making 2 sideslip manoeuvres (major or minor) in the same Turn."
"Ride Tail-winds" reads "May swap a face-down manoeuvre for a 'Straight'; place it face-up on the AC's mat".
"Utilize Headwinds" reads "May swap a face-down manoeuvre for a 'Stall' provided the manoeuvre sequence is 'legal'."

[The Cowman]

Neat Idea... might be something I would consider way down the road after getting a solid group of players established!

Love the "Dudley Potter" pilot...

[Mac]

Hmmmm.
Might prove useful for a league or group just starting, though I feel a person that generates an ace pilot will be a bit reluctant to lose him right away.
Older players would still play the way they do, what has proven to them to work, periphery flying, right at them, leaving early whatever, instead of "playing as the character rolled".
Just random thoughts. But then again, I have never had a pilot make it past nine missions or five kills.

[Charlie3]

Hmmmm..... But then again, I have never had a pilot make it past nine missions or five kills.

[Mac]

Next Tuesday is the time to be at League Night!
I have a Camel pilot with 4 kills. . .Those are not Roundels, they are TARGETS!

[Justin3.14]

We play a wild west game which deals with "characteristics" quite easily.
There is a deck cards with various advantages and disadvantages, as a new character you draw one card.
If its an advantage, you keep it, if its a disadvantage, you keep it, but, you also get to pick cards until you pull an advantage, and keep that too.
When you reach Ace, you get to go back into the deck and do the above and add it to your already established characteristics
This keeps a simple game simple

The question is is "Chivalrous" an advantage or disadvantage?

For this, advantages could be:
"Crack shot" +1 or +2 damage regardless
"Robust/Thick headed" can take 2 wounds before dead
"Strategic thinker" pick a sucker and treat it like tailing regardless of positioning
and so on...

Disadvantages
"Rotten shot " -1 damage
"Thinks too much" any friendly shot down within 1 rulers length causes pilot to fly 1 straight while he ponders eternity
"Opportunist" must chase the weakest or most shot up a/c in 1 ruler's range
etc...

[Flying Officer Kyte]

That appeals to me Justin. I have been trying to think of a way of attributing characteristics for the one off friendly game, where you don't have time to aquire ace skills over a number of games. This idea seems to fill the bill without any effort.
Thanks.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Interesting--could be fun.

Have a bit of a dilemma, though, that I've always had in RPG's: What about basing a character off knowledge and capabilities you have in real life? WEG/WOTC D6/D20 I was always crippled by needing more "skill points" to represent my existing knowledge, intellect and instincts than game-rules allowed... the tradeoff in real life having come in physical condition and in "personal growth", plus some devastating quirks.

How would you represent a pilot who also has good ground-combat skills and thus a chance to fight his way out of post-shootdown capture and back to friendly lines? Perhaps something like this?

GROUND COMBATANT: If this pilot is killed by anything other than a "Pilot Kill" or "Explosion" card, roll 1d6; on a 3 or better, he does not die instead, but is still out of this game and your next. (representing the time required to fight or infiltrate his way home)

[Goering Ace]

Hi Walt. Being a long time D&D player, I really like the system you devised. It's simple yet adds depth of character to the pilots you create. I was thinking about the ARMOR CLASS and ATTACK aspects, and this is what I came up with. For attack, I think the higher die roll would indicate better aim. As you well know, some people have amazing aim and others can't hit the broad side of a barn. This could figure into the damage drawn. If the pilot had this "dead aim" ability from the die roll, any "0" drawn as damage by the opposing player would become a "1". Because of his exceptional aim, he would always score at least 1 for any hit on the opponent.

Now for AC I'm thinking that it could be treated like dexterity. His reflexes would help him avoid losing health points, maybe as a result of ducking or evasive manuevering during the dogfight. The plane would still take damage, but as a result of his dexterity/quick reflexes he might have poitioned the plane so as to avoid personal injury himself.

Anyways, just a few ideas. I love your system, so keep me updated as you tweek it and finalize it. I'd love to incorporate it into my own WOW games here with Hunter.

Scott