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Thread: Questions regarding WW2 Maneuver Decks

  1. #1


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    Question Questions regarding WW2 Maneuver Decks

    Hi, I'm new to the forum and the expanded world of Wings of Glory, such as the use of 3rd party planes in 'fill in the gaps'.

    I am looking to bolster my collection with:
    2x Boulton Paul Defiants
    3x Macchi C.200's
    1x Do-17Z
    1x Ju-88

    From what I can tell on the custom cards sections, I will need a bunch of D, K and BA Maneuver Decks.

    Can someone point me in the right direction of which expansions and/or planes I would need to buy to find these maneuver decks please? (Is there a list in the downloadable section that I might have missed?)

    Also, is there a difference between the WW1 and WW2 maneuver decks? i.e. Are certain WW2 custom planes flying on WW1 maneuver decks?

    Thanks in advance.

    Frankie

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panzerfrank View Post
    Hi, I'm new to the forum and the expanded world of Wings of Glory, such as the use of 3rd party planes in 'fill in the gaps'.

    I am looking to bolster my collection with:
    2x Boulton Paul Defiants
    3x Macchi C.200's
    1x Do-17Z
    1x Ju-88

    From what I can tell on the custom cards sections, I will need a bunch of D, K and BA Maneuver Decks.

    Can someone point me in the right direction of which expansions and/or planes I would need to buy to find these maneuver decks please? (Is there a list in the downloadable section that I might have missed?)

    Also, is there a difference between the WW1 and WW2 maneuver decks? i.e. Are certain WW2 custom planes flying on WW1 maneuver decks?

    Thanks in advance.

    Frankie
    I am sure one of the Mob will give you a link to something to help you.

    However the two systems are VERY different.
    WW1 Aircraft have widely differing manoeuvres for the various aircraft & only the one speed whilst WW2 have fast & slow speed arrows on the same cards & their manoeuvres are much less dramatic compared with WW1. Also WW1 is a 3 card turn while WW2 is a progressive 2 card turn.

    "Its a fine line indeed between going out in a Blaze of Glory or having Crashed & Burnt!"
    Member Australian Society of WW1 Aero Historians

  3. #3

    Guntruck's Avatar Central England Command Squadron Leader & Librarian
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    HI Frankie, welcome to the Aerodrome.

    The WW2 planes do not use WW1 decks, and unfortunately you cannot buy WW2 decks separately. Your best bet is to find someone here who might - just might - have produced decks for their own use and drop them a PM. Apropos to nothing, I also fly Defiants, Dorniers and 88s.....

    You mentioned a BA deck - what is this for?
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    You mentioned a BA deck - what is this for?
    I was looking on the Custom cards for the Dornier 'Flying Pencil' and it mentions it uses a BA deck (The A is slightly smaller than the B on the card).

    Also, it seems you would be the right person to ask. Which decks do you use for Defiants, Do-17's and Ju-88's?

  5. #5

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    Welcome to the Drome Frankie from West Yorkshire in the good old UK. Fly safe and always watch your six!.
    There is a set of super cards somewhere in the Files section where all the decks are shown on one card (very clever) but only WW1 at the moment; although he does have plans to do a WW2 set I believe. Only problem is I can't remember the details or name but I'm sure someone else on this forum will.
    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm. Winston S. Churchill

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    Defiant uses a D* deck (basically the D deck with the reversal card removed)

    Do17z uses the XB deck

    JU88A uses the K (b) deck (K deck with reversal, 60° & 45° and extreme sideslips removed)

    JU88D (PR) uses the M* deck (M deck with reversal removed)

    JU88S uses the Q (b) deck (see Kb deck note above)
    See you on the Dark Side......

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    Thank you!

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    Unnofficial Stat Committee Aircraft:
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2136

    Explanatory notes for above:
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2137

    Gunnery arcs for unofficial stats aircraft:
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2138
    See you on the Dark Side......

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    Thank you everyone for being so helpful!

  10. #10

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    WWI Maneuver decks in single cards:
    WGF MATES (Maneuver Templates) - Folding Version

    The WGS version is going to take a long time, as it requires serious design and graphic effort to produce. Not a small project, actually. I am looking at two cards per deck, due to the number of arrows required (two speeds, remember).
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  11. #11

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    I was attempting to do up the Ares Wings of Glory A Maneuver Deck, as it is now different from the original Nexus Wings of War A Maneuver Deck.

    I have four Nexus Spitfires, and want the extra 60 degree turns for all my planes. I did up a complete maneuver deck for any games I might play on a tabletop, but others may not want to print, cut and sleeve a bunch of decks. I thought the MATES project might help.

    Latest work (dabbling, really) with WWII MATES maneuver decks:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS A.jpg  Views: 162  Size: 73.6 KB  ID: 224256" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    The above is the first scratch at the surface of this, and it is already a mess. I started with the straights, and put in the 30 degree left/right, long/short turns, and then attempted to put in the 60 degree left turns. There are 45 degree turns, shallow and wide sideslips, stall and Immelmann maneuvers yet to be put into the cards.

    There is an option of doing only short or long maneuvers per card, but that will be just as cluttered. So, a mix of short and long maneuvers per card, and it might take four sides to do a complicated deck, not two sides. And, that doesn't include the house rule climbing/diving turns, either.

    My 'Full' A deck is 26 cards: Battle of Britain Squadron Packs - Hurricane, Spitfire, Bf109E and Ju87 Stuka - Post #129
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  12. #12

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    Humble suggestion. How about putting all the slow moves on one side and the fast on the other? You could put the deck letter at the bottom of the card.

  13. #13

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    Here's an idea,

    How about putting all the left turns on one side of a card, and the right turns on the other?
    You could space the starting ends of the arrows across the width of the card, that way they wouldn't overlap each other so much.
    Straights, stalls and reversals could go on one side of a second card, and side slips on the other side of the second card.

  14. #14

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    Here are the Left turns, Fast and Slow.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS A Turns Lt.jpg  Views: 158  Size: 113.0 KB  ID: 224265" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    Pretty crowded?

    I think I try the straights together with the stall and the Immelmann. Just the turns on one card each, perhaps.
    Last edited by OldGuy59; 06-02-2017 at 01:52.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  15. #15

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    Looks like you are making progress! Good work Mike!

  16. #16

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    As suggested above, I would put the Deck letter at the bottom.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
    Humble suggestion. How about putting all the slow moves on one side and the fast on the other? You could put the deck letter at the bottom of the card.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    As suggested above, I would put the Deck letter at the bottom.
    Gary,
    I don't think putting all the slow (fast) together would clear up the clutter.

    Gary and Pete,
    No. It would clear up some clutter, but it would not be in keeping with the original MATES look.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #18

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    Just use a bigger card Mike. Would using something like the later models have solve the issue ?

    "He is wise who watches"

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post

    It would clear up some clutter, but it would not be in keeping with the original MATES look.
    But, Mike, WGS cards are not the same as WGF - I don't think you have to be chained to that look.
    The big letter A and Maneuver Template behind the actual arrows make them unreadable anyway.

    Just my 2 bits ...

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    But, Mike, WGS cards are not the same as WGF - I don't think you have to be chained to that look.
    The big letter A and Maneuver Template behind the actual arrows make them unreadable anyway.

    Just my 2 bits ...
    Pete,
    You are destroying the artistic vision of the original artist.

    However...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS A CompAV2.jpg  Views: 142  Size: 80.2 KB  ID: 224346" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MATES <acronym title=WGS A CompBV2.jpg  Views: 143  Size: 73.3 KB  ID: 224347" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  21. #21

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    Putting all the moves of a given type on one card also leads to the question "How do we know he didn't plot this move, then changed it when he saw his target doing something besides what he expected?"

    I had this problem coming up with maneuver cards for the _Crimson Skies_/_WoG_ crossover; there, it was somewhat easier, as the player had to pick a speed first, and this limited the opportunities for cheating.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    Putting all the moves of a given type on one card also leads to the question "How do we know he didn't plot this move, then changed it when he saw his target doing something besides what he expected?"

    I had this problem coming up with maneuver cards for the _Crimson Skies_/_WoG_ crossover; there, it was somewhat easier, as the player had to pick a speed first, and this limited the opportunities for cheating.
    Chris,
    If you have to worry about a person cheating at this game, it would be a matter of choosing with whom you play.

    MATES Cards are not necessarily for standard tabletop gaming. Or for ease of play rather than shuffling through a deck. Hosting a Skype game is awesome with MATES cards, for that very reason. And I don't have to have a deck, as the other players are giving me the card number.

    However, if there is an issue of cheating, then everyone records their move in writing, then uses the card for moves. Sad if you have to do that. But it could be that old guys forget what move they thought they picked. So, writing it down might be the only way to go, if using MATES.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  23. #23

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    I have attempted to continue a project that was supposed to be ongoing for WGS MATES, and I've put them on the original starting thread, here: Sashdash's cards

    I've posted up: A, B, E, G, H, and N.

    Others will have to wait until I get cards scanned, put into Illustrator and arrows created, and then the template modified for each deck. I don't have all the deck, and none of the "Fast" decks, so this might be a bit spotty. If I ever get it done.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  24. #24

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    Mike
    I think these look great.
    Sasha's are great for WGF but your version looks great for WGS

  25. #25

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    Well, I noticed an error on the H Deck sideslips, so I fixed them. Did up the C and F decks, too.

    All the current WGF MATES decks are here: OldGuy59's WGS MATES Cards Album

    I have the L and M decks (scans to do before I can get them done), but not D, O, P, Q nor R. And not all of the X? bomber decks, either (I do have the XA).
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  26. #26

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    A local play that I indoctrinated into this game has started buying some of her own planes. She isn't too stuck on the Battle of Britain, and I had some minis that I purchased at clearance prices from a Victoria store that I didn't want. She wanted the Spitfire Mk IX and the P-51, as well as the Dam Buster Lanc, and at 25% of retail, she could afford them.

    Thanks to Kelsey, I have scans of the O, P and XD decks. O deck is now in my MATES WWII album, with the other two to follow.

    NOTE: Needed to redo the entire template for the Fast cards. Gack!
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  27. #27

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    For those still looking for them, the J and K decks are now in the MATES WWII album.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  28. #28

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    Finally finished the WGS decks. With the assistance of others that own the planes I do not, and buying the booster pack for the J and K decks, I now have all the WGS decks completed.

    You can find them in this album: OldGuy59's WGS MATES Cards Album
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Finally finished the WGS decks. With the assistance of others that own the planes I do not, and buying the booster pack for the J and K decks, I now have all the WGS decks completed.

    You can find them in this album: OldGuy59's WGS MATES Cards Album
    Repeat from: Sashdash's cards - Post #43
    OK. I need some oversight by WGS players for this project. I now note that there are WGS maneuver decks down to "W"? Shows how much I attention I pay to the WGS version.

    So, exactly how many more decks, past "R" are there? S, T, U, V, and W? Any more than that?
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  30. #30

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    All the currently published maneuver decks for Fall 2020, with the exception of the T Deck, are now done.

    The MATES WWII cards can be found here: OldGuy59's WGS MATES Cards Album[/QUOTE]
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  31. #31


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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    The MATES WWII cards can be found here: OldGuy59's WGS MATES Cards Album
    Unsure about the format of T,S,Q,R,P. Are these supposed to be printed in poker size?

  32. #32

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    Yes.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by hokusai View Post
    Unsure about the format of T,S,Q,R,P. Are these supposed to be printed in poker size?

    Exactly. In order to represent the higher speed of mid-war planes, the cards had to get bigger. I am now working on representing late-war planes, including jets, and they definitely do not fit on standard cards. Jets won't even fit on the larger Fast decks.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    Exactly. In order to represent the higher speed of mid-war planes, the cards had to get bigger. I am now working on representing late-war planes, including jets, and they definitely do not fit on standard cards. Jets won't even fit on the larger Fast decks.
    The price we pay for going higher and faster, eh Mike
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus



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