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Thread: Is elimination overly severe for performing an illegal manoeuvre?

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    Default Is elimination overly severe for performing an illegal manoeuvre?

    I would have to hold my hands up and admit that I have a bit of a habit of performing illegal movement. although to be honest never intentionally. I'm grand with the steep and height manoeuvre restrictions and with"on fire", "smoking" and "pilot wounded". However, I am very prone to overlooking, or forgetting, rudder, and to a lesser degree, engine damage. Just wondering if others find the elimination rule for this overly severe, especially when compared to the penalty for mid-air collisions; draw C deck damage card? Would drawing a C deck damage card be more appropriate for an illegal manoeuvre or should I just "take my oil" and deal with it?

  2. #2

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    Up to you to keep the basic penalty instead. In my opinion, it's realistic. A collison could happen, and you could survive. A wroung maneuvre could happen to a pilot in the fray of the battle, and I sometimes plan wrong myself - wrong cards sequence, mirrored maneuvre instead than the ine I intended and such. But these machines up in the sky were not forgiving - a wroung maneuvre could mean the plane to go ourt of control, stall, enter a spin, crash on the ground. Hence the rule.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Up to you to keep the basic penalty instead. In my opinion, it's realistic. A collison could happen, and you could survive. A wroung maneuvre could happen to a pilot in the fray of the battle, and I sometimes plan wrong myself - wrong cards sequence, mirrored maneuvre instead than the ine I intended and such. But these machines up in the sky were not forgiving - a wroung maneuvre could mean the plane to go ourt of control, stall, enter a spin, crash on the ground. Hence the rule.
    Thanks Angiolillo. Always good to get another perspective on the issue.

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    Ideas I have for houseruling it, so it's still dangerous, gives the loss of control, but not instant death:

    On revealing an illegal manuver, the aircraft spins- it loses a level of altitude and all climb tokens (if this causes it to go below 1, it's eliminated), does not move forward, and its facing is randomised. It takes an A damage token, applies damage (ignoring specials). It the tokens damage value is lower than the number of turns the aircraft has been spinning, the pilot recovers the spin, and it's next move must be a slow stall. If not, the spin continues. Spinning aircraft may not fire any weapons or drop bombs.

    So, you have a small chance of getting away with it, but more likely you'll spin for a couple of turns at least so unless you've got lots of altitude as a buffer, you'll end up as a lawn dart.

  5. #5

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    The WW1 version of the game changed the penalty.

    The basic version had an illegal move down as an elimination, but the Advanced/Optional rules (I forget which) downgraded the illegal move penalty to a replacement of the illegal card with a long straight card, plus an 'A' damage card.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    The WW1 version of the game changed the penalty.

    The basic version had an illegal move down as an elimination, but the Advanced/Optional rules (I forget which) downgraded the illegal move penalty to a replacement of the illegal card with a long straight card, plus an 'A' damage card.
    I'm obviously playing catch-up here Tim but where do I find those Advanced/Optional rules?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFT View Post
    Ideas I have for houseruling it, so it's still dangerous, gives the loss of control, but not instant death:

    On revealing an illegal manuver, the aircraft spins- it loses a level of altitude and all climb tokens (if this causes it to go below 1, it's eliminated), does not move forward, and its facing is randomised. It takes an A damage token, applies damage (ignoring specials). It the tokens damage value is lower than the number of turns the aircraft has been spinning, the pilot recovers the spin, and it's next move must be a slow stall. If not, the spin continues. Spinning aircraft may not fire any weapons or drop bombs.

    So, you have a small chance of getting away with it, but more likely you'll spin for a couple of turns at least so unless you've got lots of altitude as a buffer, you'll end up as a lawn dart.
    Interesting Richard.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    The WW1 version of the game changed the penalty.

    The basic version had an illegal move down as an elimination, but the Advanced/Optional rules (I forget which) downgraded the illegal move penalty to a replacement of the illegal card with a long straight card, plus an 'A' damage card.
    Optional, in the original Nexus rules: I have not actually read the Ares rules on this, having just recently acquired a RAP. Is this option not in the Ares RAP?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    The WW1 version of the game changed the penalty.

    The basic version had an illegal move down as an elimination, but the Advanced/Optional rules (I forget which) downgraded the illegal move penalty to a replacement of the illegal card with a long straight card, plus an 'A' damage card.
    Actually, Tim, it's the other way around.

    Basic Rules (pg 7) replace the illegal move with a straight and take an "A"
    Optional (pg 18) the plane goes out of control and is eliminated. This rule replaces the Basic Rule on page 7.

  10. #10

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    Ares 'RAP', Basic Rules, page 7 column 2, half way down - "Illegal Manoeuvres"

    " If an illegal maneuvre is revealed because a player fails to follow these restrictions, he must replace the illegal card with a straight card and take an 'A' damage card, representing the stress on the structure of the airplane."
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumptonian View Post
    Actually, Tim, it's the other way around.

    Basic Rules (pg 7) replace the illegal move with a straight and take an "A"
    Optional (pg 18) the plane goes out of control and is eliminated. This rule replaces the Basic Rule on page 7.
    I was referencing the change from Nexus (elimination) to Ares ('A' damage)
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    I was referencing the change from Nexus (elimination) to Ares ('A' damage)
    I see said the blind man.
    Although I have the original Nexus games I only ever used them for the cards since I started with the Ares version.
    But still, the Optional Rule goes back to elimination. Since it is optional, I suppose we can ignore it.

    I only play solo so it never comes up.


    Unless I decide to have an argument with myself. Or get into abuse , or hitting the head lessons ...

  13. #13

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    The very original rules, in "Wings of War" - Famous Aces" and "Watch your Back!", said that if you played an illegal maneuvre you'd have to replace it with a straight. Optional rule: eliminate the plane since it goes out of control.
    Game reason behind that: basic rules are used by beginners, forgive them for theirs mistakes. If they are not beginners any more, let's be sure that they do not plan illegal movies on purpose to do something else, so just punish them if they try.
    A house rule for recovering from spins could be nice indeed. I avoided that for the sake of simplicity.
    Last edited by Angiolillo; 04-09-2017 at 13:41.

  14. #14

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    Thanks for jumping in Andrea.
    Always good to see your input, especially on rules etc.
    I do agree with your clarification that "errors" are for newbies.

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    Thanks, everyone, for all the input.

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    Slight Hijack, but as Angiolillo's in this thread, I wonder if we could get a clarification on the following, which also touches on "instant death" issues.

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...786#post441786

  17. #17

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    Are the WWI and WWII game different in regard to the rules?

  18. #18

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    I am wondering why if using the basic rules there is also ot a comment that you cannot o anything with the guns - either firing or unjamming?



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