Neil,
good to hear,
cheers,
Guus
Neil,
good to hear,
cheers,
Guus
"zet 'm op ... witte muizen !" (strijdkreet van 1e JaVa, Luchtvaart Afdeling, Nederland 1940)
"let's go get them ... white mice !" (battlecry of the 1st Fighter Group, Army Air Force, Netherlands 1940)
A scenario and campaign pack. That sounds fantastic, doubly so if it includes a more complete skill list to fill out the rules.Originally Posted by Angiolillo
Can't wait for this boxed set. It's a must have for me.
See you on the Dark Side......
I'm really looking forward to this new set!
Thanks for sticking at it, Andrea!
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Will this boxed Campaign set include miniatures (exclusive ones) ?
The new Scenarios and Campaign Pack is indeed welcome news but it needs announcing in a thread of its own, not at the bottom of a thread on another topic.
Alas PR has never been a strong point for Ares, at least as far as WoG is concerned. I have difficulty remembering ever seeing a press release or hobby news story about the game.
Don't think of this as an announcement, think of it as a leak before the official press release!
Well it was not an official announcement, just the promise that it will gather all the skills released up to then. And all the special rules that have been used up to then and will be used in future reprints of the actual planes (there will be all the ones I devised for planes ever produced both by Nexus or Ares, even if they had not cards in them).
It was just to say that of course you will be welcome if you will choose to buy more planes, but you will not need them to get skills and rules.
Just the ace cards are out of style in such a set based on the developement of your own aces, let's see if they will be reprinted in new decks. But again, they are just "bundles" of skills that you get anyway.
The plan at the moment is not to put miniatures in it, but I do not know the final decisions by Ares.
It would be an unexpected joy to see one
I don't suppose Ares would consider including a few movement and damage deck cards with blank faces to allow for the replacement of lost or damaged cards, would they?
I will suggest that!
But yes, we are going OT. Maybe it's time for another thread.
Nexus did, in the "Famous Aces" box set.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Added expense I would imagine but it would be nice to have 1 of each current maneuver deck in the box.
See you on the Dark Side......
New box sounds great, but rather then planes how about 3D plastic objective markers (truck, tank, MG nests, Arty, Buildings) get a sprue made and put a few of different colors in each box. Just make sure to use a paintable plastic for us painters. Maybe even add in a new paper map to keep us happy. Adding new content is a great way to drive up demand without unbalancing the game.
Yes, Tim, but the card backs say 'Wings of War'. We need ones saying 'Wings of Glory'.
That might threaten sales of models, Neil, because they could be used with planes from other manufacturers.
Yes, I already know that! They're the ones I use!
I don't use any of the Ares cards (except the few manoeuvre decks I can't replace.............yet!).
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
I almost missed this. Really good news to see a campaign system coming out.
I recently acquired B-17 Leader and Enemy Coast Ahead: The Doolittle Raid, both are amazing games where planning and allocating resources are an integral part of the experience. Neither has the excellent combat system of WGS so I have been thinking of ways to integrate the two game genres. Good thing both have valid point systems! I would prefer if Andrea designs it rather than home brewing and would be happy to be a play tester at any point in the process. This talk of scenarios is making me want to dive bomb Carriers with some Dauntless.
An obvious extension would be Wings of Glory - the Role Playing Game.
Make a character, with various attributes - eyesight, coordination, stamina, social standing, wisdom. Like Traveller, but simpler.
These attributes, with experience, can be used to gain ace skills. Wisdom to gain bullet checker for example, eyesight to gain sniper, coordination to gain acrobatic pilot, and social standing to get better aircraft and more medals and fame. Wounds can decrease attributes temporarily or permanently, as can fatigue.
A DM can make a storyline campaign, with one or two parties competing. With the solo rules, the DM can have most of the opposition being AI controlled, with DM control of a few.
Thinking better about that, it is not feasible any more. Now the decks have a letter on the back, you need different replacements for each of the 25+ maneuvre decks and of the 4 damage decks...
Being that there are things in the play balance that have too much luck involved, the chances of a pilot in a campaign surviving are rough. The Forum members that have played all the way through a few campaigns could vouch for, or refute, this.
I did something like this for Wh40k, marking all my troops with individual tactical call signs, thinking that I could start with recruits and a few tough Sergeants, and work my Chapter up to veteran status after a few games. A few battles later, and none of the squads had survived all the battles. The experience took the idea of a Wh40k RPG campaign completely out of the realm of possibility. Dice are too random, and the game was too messy (violent).
Also, depending on the anecdotes I've read, there isn't a lot of play value in some encounters:
1. A pilot sees a plane, sneaks up on it from underneath, tips up his nose and runs a line of bullets down the fuselage from tail to nose, the plane rolls over and spirals into the ground.
2. A pilot flys at an opponent, gets right up close and unloads both MGs into the cocpit. One burst, and the opposing pilot is riddled with bullets.
Not sure you'd want to game either of these events (if the card based damage would allow either to happen on a consistent basis), and it wouldn't be good for the opposing player in the campaign.
I suppose there would be a lot more use of strategic withdrawl in a campaign setting. It is something I mention in my demos, when we play to destruction of one side. At my last demo, I suggested that engine damage would be a game ender in a campaign setting, if I wanted my pilot to survive. Running away almost immediately would be my prefered tactic for survival in this case.
I've got to get back in a campaign and fly all the way through one, to try this for myself. I was six games into the Over the Trenches campaign, and the CP opponents had lost six pilots and more planes (too many Boom Cards with fatal Critical cards), with my squadron loosing one pilot to fatal wounds, two to injuries, and six planes written off from damage (a few very good escape and evasion rolls. Would the luck change as the campaign continued?).
Mike
"Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
"Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59
OTT only works as it does because the crash & E&E rules are (deliberately) slanted to survival. If we went with any realism I think we'd have a change of personnel every two or three games but that wouldn't work as well for our story-tellers. Same would need to apply for a rpg I'd have thought.
Sapiens qui vigilat... "He is wise who watches"
We tried this way back in 08 at our club. It became apparent that the skilled/lucky player (not me I might add) quickly racked up ace skills and was just about unstoppable. We then introduced a max no of missions before a pilot had to be 'rested' and he had to fly one of his 2 others. Not run as an RPG as such but we had squadrons, published obituaries etc.
See you on the Dark Side......
i love that idea!!!
Isn't there a file in the file section about running WGF as a RPG style game?
See you on the Dark Side......
Almost need a timeline game...as players accumulate points for games played they can unlock later airframes. Say start with a DH2 and work your way up to Spads and SE5a's. Each player could advance along both the single and multi seat threads. Getting shot down would not stop your advance though it might have a negative point value. Considering we throw planes into the fight now without concern for timelines it should not be too bad. Each mission gains a point or two, each kill gets a point, shot down loses points...ect. Place point values on every airframe and unlock them as the campaign goes along.
Have you tried, recently, purchasing a DH2 or SE5a?
I wouldn't be very fond of a campaign system that wanted me to purchase airframes that aren't available with no idea of when, if any, future reprints. I think that would really limit it to many to people on this forum and those who like custom creations.
Me, I'd prefer a game ready to play and if it required anything it should be flexible enough to allow the planes that I already own or at least could purchase reasonably. Otherwise what is the point of purchasing a gaming campaign that I couldn't play?
[Edit: P.S. I own 60+ planes and though that isn't as many as most here it is still quite a lot and I still don't own an SE5a. The DH2's I have I paid far over retail to get them.]
Last edited by Ken at Sunrise; 10-24-2017 at 13:07. Reason: spell'in n grammer; and stuff
At my games club last week, I played X-wing!
A simple, no frills, no "extras" 100 point dogfight. This was my third game ever, against an opponent on his second outing.
I used 5 Imperials against 4 Rebels........................dropped all 4, for the loss of just one of my own.
Hate to say, IT WAS FUN! (Not as much fun as WGF, but still better than I had hoped).
Tomorrow, we're going to try 6 players, 3 vs 3.
Another slippery slope beckons.....................
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
There's actually a decent RPG from Flying Mice games called In Harms Way: Aces in Spades
http://www.flyingmice.com/aces.html
I played the modern version, and it's not bad. Could be adapted to use for WGF.
Karl
It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus
X-Wing has a wonderful theme if you like Star Wars and is very fast paced. Wings of Glory, though having similar mechanics in some areas, is really a completely different game. We love both systems and play either depending on the crowd's tastes.At my games club last week, I played X-wing!
A simple, no frills, no "extras" 100 point dogfight. This was my third game ever, against an opponent on his second outing.
I used 5 Imperials against 4 Rebels........................dropped all 4, for the loss of just one of my own.
Hate to say, IT WAS FUN! (Not as much fun as WGF, but still better than I had hoped).
Tomorrow, we're going to try 6 players, 3 vs 3.
Another slippery slope beckons.....................
Some love Star Wars and look forward to that. Many though love the mission goals and history of Wings of Glory.
X Wing with Micro Machines.....
I have a number of Tie fighters and X Wings myself all micro machines for use with the Wings rules. Might try and pick up some dice for the game and the movement rulers. I've played it once before and it just seemed if you don't have the upgrades you aint going to win.
Anyway I have them and there there for the future. Too many WGF/WGS things getting in the way and of course Bolt Action.
X Wing with Micro Machines.....
See you on the Dark Side......
Ken
I have 2 DH2's thanks to Shapeways (see shapeways thread) and all 3 Se5a's due to a very generous forum member when I first joined. Both airframes can be purchased via Shapeways and cards should be in the old Box set from the old publisher (or likely on this website).
So getting an usable airframe is not an issue or major cost. Now getting the OOP official ones on the other hand...
I forgot that not everyone plays with the simplified altitude rules, which allow a decent chance of pilot survival after being knocked out of the game. It encourages victors to follow the vanquished down just to make sure they're not shamming too.
An engine hit, a wounded pilot, a fire or half damage are all good excuses for breaking off and living to fight another day. Anyone leaving the game in this condition is not penalised for lack of moral fibre, rather praised for not being a stupid idiot who's going to get himself killed.
With slow rates of progression of ace skills, a minimum number of missions survived, there are no aces that haven't learnt the better part of valour. Unless forced to by circumstance, in which case they soon become dead heroes.
The Campaign rules will focus on squadron. Pilots wih individual names whose fate will be checked after each battle - losing all damage points and even "explosion" cards could mean that the pilot is not harmed, or wounded and off action for some days. Behind enemy lines, he could be prisoner or busy reaching friendly lines... But not dead every time the plane is eliminated.
There will be a timeline to know which planes are to be used when. Up to players to allow plane changes when newer ones arrive. Or to allow some aces to get new planes before the time they are full operational, as test prototypes.
Se5a are being reprinted now. Even a Se5 will be available. This could help with campaigns too.
DH2 will be reprinted soon (I know that "soon" is not a precise date). Some monts still be needed.
The reprint of the S.E.5a's is excellent news, Andrea! Please tell Ares to print a great many of them because they are likely to be in very great demand.
To the topic.
X Wing with Micro Machines.....
As a Devil's advocate say I:
X/W is still a fine, casual tabletop game as far as you do not treat it as a tournament one (but if you like to play competitevely - no problem really).
I own a lot of models and from time to time organize a friendly 4/6 players game 60/100p.
It has some pros that make the game exciting besides it's theme and if you do not care about the lack of 3D (altitude) aspect (in fact many of us very often play WGF/WGS without altitude as well) these assets IMHO are:
a) clearly stated compact battlefield 90/90 cm area,
b) easy rules,
c) no collisions between minis (plus potential collisions with obstacles) that free players from placing a card underneath a base which is sometimes irritating and flimsy when 3+ minis meet in one spot,
d) point system that balance the gameplay,
e) exciting and easy dice rolling mechanism and a chance to end the battle unharmed,
f) a whiiiizzz feeling of dynamic maneuvering one by one that also makes flying multiple miniatures comfortable,
g) many expansions are released with specific scenarios that make planning a game easy,
h) to me, preparing squadron lists before a game night is an exciting part of the fun. Players that come to take part in a space battle are presented with a preset list of starfighters and mod/equipment cards and just man their machines on the spot,
i) one does not have to buy all the new released minis, for mod cards really tweak the ships in one direction or another.
Just 2 Devil's cents.
Last edited by Nightbomber; 10-25-2017 at 02:13.
"We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."
I'm with you Nightbomber.
I love this forum, I really do... But not everyone on it is a genius with an encyclopedial memory about historical (or
futuristic) airframes.
I beg people to remember that some of us just like a bit of fun now & then & remember that it takes all sorts to keep
a game viable.
If you don't like something, just don't play it. Banging on about something we're all aware of doesn't actually add
anything to the body of knowledge on such an august board of members.
I'm fully aware that even in stating something this obvious, I'll get my share of haters... therein lays my point.
Last edited by Boreas; 10-25-2017 at 02:19.
I’m really excited for this “campaign” book/set/expansion, whatever you wish to call it. I have wanted someth8ng like this for years. When I was still in Idaho with my play group, we played Wings every single Friday night. We called it , Friday Night Flights. We pulled out every plane. Each plane/pilot was written down on a sheet of paper and then put into a hat. Each player pulled a sheet and found their plane. When yours was shot down, you just pulled a new sheet and grabbed your new plane. The whole point was to survive long enough to get 5 kills with the same plane. As expected, no one ever could achieve it, as once someone got 3-4 kills they became priority one. Regardless, we had a blast and their was plenty of laughs and fond memories. It was also nice because every plane saw action at some point or another. We didn’t typically put in the big bombers and only played once after the Huge bombers came out and they weren’t included. Good times!
Now it seems that FFG introduced obsolescence for all existing X-Wing stuff, unless you buy a few 50$ update kits.
Producing 60 ships plus extra content over a 6 year period probably warrants an edition change. What will be interesting to watch is if the new content will make old models obsolete because players will need cards and content upgrades with each subsequent release.
They could go full-on GW and produce all the models 4 mm bigger, and jack up the price like the 40K Primaris line.
Regular Heroes
Primaris Heroes
I still think FFG has not arrived at ultimate evil just yet, but they are working on it!
They have been very specific about backwards compatibility with exiting models. But they are still going to come out with new sculpts of existing ships. The new X-Wing wings will move and the Y-Wing sculpt is suppose to be sweet. I don't think any really is obsolete unless you're into tournament play. Fortunately I'm not.
I've always been a casual player, but the complexity of the game setup and interactions drove me here. Since I picked up my WoG collection I thinking I've only played X-Wing once or twice. I have a rather extensive collection of Star Wars: X-Wing, as large as some people WoG collections here, so maybe this will let me get X-Wing back to the table. I would be nice since I used to enjoy the game
Even so I expect everything ship to need multiple upgrade cards even in the new system. While they are provided with the ship and/or conversion kits, I don't expect it to last too long before you'll need to buy more ships to get cards for old ships. They say this won't be necessary for tournament players who use the app, but unless there's an easier replacement for the app how else would a casual player get the new cards. The app may not be forever. Then as more content, upgrades, abilities, mechanics are released, in another 5 years or so they'll be a need for v3.
I hope to update my collection, yes at a cost, pick up a few of the new sculpts and get this back to the table. I stopped buying because of the complexity, I don't want to get into that trap again. As I said the clean, tactical game of WoG was why I dropped X-Wing in the first place.
New perhaps, I'll have two really good games.
I'm now playing X-wing every week, at my Wednesday night games club.
Probably had 15 or so games now, and still haven't used all the pilots, and haven't even STARTED on First Order/Resistance.
I'm having a blast; usually 200 points per side, 6' x 4' map area, 2 - 6 players, depending who shows up. Strictly "fun" games, no tournament sh1t!
I hope to soon move up to Epic, to get to use the Big Boys!
Still prefer Wings (and hopefully soon BSG!!!!!) but for now X-wing provides regular games, regular opponents and lots of fun.
I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!
Most of the time when a company "updates" the rules it is a money grab to force you to buy the new rules and models. GW is the big kid on the block with such practices but others have gone there also. Main reason I like Historicals. The models stay the same and can be used with other rules sets. A Sherman is a Sherman, not much you can do to force players to buy another one. Flames of War did a side step though and went from an Infantry based game to a tank game to sell plastic vehicles that have a higher profit margin. Understand sort of the trend to try and force players to buy more stuff, but I WILL NOT buy the same army again because they want more of my money. So walked away from 40K when they went 4th ed, Will never play Warhammer again because I still have 3 old armies I can no longer play. Same with Warmachine /Hordes. Was a Pressganger for 4 years or so and had all their Hordes and Warmachine armies. They went to second ed and I walked as I refused to rebuy everything in print after I had just gotten the full collection. I understand they need to keep sales up, I also understand older players buy less. But create new armies or chapters or campaign books rather then screw over your player base because you want more of their money. Another very annoying practice is only the new print official figs are allowed in tourney rules. If they are a product made for your army by said company they SHOULD NOT have an expiration date on them. If I buy em and paint and mount them I will NOT do it again because you want more of my cash.
Hmmm...seems somebody hit a nerve here...sigh
It is all good brother. I have two large totes filled with over 8,000 points of Necrons because of a whole new level of gouging. Necrons sleeping in a tomb world until discovered again is sort of thematic so not feeling horrible about that. Collectible, Living, or whatever fancy name you want to give expandable card games are also just money laundering devices. That is the actual trick with X-Wing. In reality it is another LCG that FFG is famous for, in the guise of a miniatures game. There is a bit of evil cross pollination here as GWs Shadespire follows the exact same production model as X-Wing, with cards you need tucked away in boxes of plastic you may not want.
Flames of War is strong on this. How many editions, reincarnations of supplements etc?Most of the time when a company "updates" the rules it is a money grab to force you to buy the new rules and models
The new trick with FoW is the unit cards in the boxes...very nice...and useful...and only in their box sets. Sort of kills people buying Old Glory or other companies miniatures because they cost half as much but do not come with the useful cards. See more of this coming in the future, Game aids you need in their product to force you to buy their brand. Wait a minute........ummm....not slamming WoG here...I LIKE them.
Ok..back on topic
Greedy Weasels has done the reset game half a dozen times or more
Privateer Press is on their third incarnation
Fow is up to 4?
Bolt action even just went to 2 though it is not bad and you can still use the same armies unaltered.
And yet WoG is on the second company and over 10 years and you can still use the original box set (love dem heavy card dashboards) gotta love em for that.
Actually, not to defend FFG, but they have always been very clear about this being a Living Game. No guise of a miniatures game at all. They even billed that way in the early days, so no deception. If we got into it without knowing that, it was on us. I got into it because it was Star Wars and came to like the game. But the game's growing complexity drove me here. I'm happy it did too. There are things I don't like about Wings of Glory, but right now in its current form there's a lot more I don't like about X-Wing.
We'll see..
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