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Thread: Point system for WW2 Wings of Glory

  1. #51

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    I have not had time to dig back into it but it looks great. It was so much fun testing the points out, and I will have even more fun playing with it now that it has the finality of the Ares graphic touch. Thank you Andrea for developing this!

    Worth mentioning, I ran some games with 3 Vals vs 1 Warhawk+Fire Expert then 10 additional solo plays with a scenario I created. It is brutal on the Warhawk player if the Vals stay in a tight formation because the cumulative effect of hitting with 3 A's will bring the P-40 down to earth before it can destroy all three Japanese planes. The Warhawk can win, but the more experienced player should never play the Vals. It may be something to look at if there is a version 2 but it is not enough of an issue to need a change. BTW, Fire Expert saved the day in one game.

    Side notes about the experience: I had not flown the Warhawk much before so when I was piloting it during this exercise I found that I am not a big fan of its handling, preferring to fly Wildcats and Zeros if I am going the Pacific route. The Vals vs Warhawk solo Mission I created was inspired by the BoB version with the 111's. It was fun to create and play and maybe worth looking at for the upcoming War in the Pacific set. For now the Mission remains classified...

  2. #52

    atomzero
    Guest


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    I have asked this in another thread, so I'll only ask again here. Is there any way I could get the point values for the Polikarpov I-16's from the Revolution in the Sky card pack?

  3. #53

  4. #54

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    Thanks for asking. Initially I only gave points for Wings of Glory planes and Wings of War miniatures. Now I added every Wings of War card too: I-16, Ki-43, Ki-100, Re.2002, Airacobra and many sub-versions of Spitfire, Bf.109E, P-40, Ki-61, Gladiator and more that were missing. If soimething has still to be added, please tell me.
    A very few things have also been refined (previous P-40 values slightly changed, for example).

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Thanks for asking. Initially I only gave points for Wings of Glory planes and Wings of War miniatures. Now I added every Wings of War card too: I-16, Ki-43, Ki-100, Re.2002, Airacobra and many sub-versions of Spitfire, Bf.109E, P-40, Ki-61, Gladiator and more that were missing. If soimething has still to be added, please tell me.
    A very few things have also been refined (previous P-40 values slightly changed, for example).
    No Polikarpov I-16s visible in the curremt list, the rest are all there. Also THANKS!

  6. #56

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    Sorry Zoe! I did the comparisons and the calculations, but not the cut&paste... Fixed that, thanks!

    Now all we need are a few Heros of the Soviet Union wanting to try how 7 I-16s do against one skilled Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VIF.
    Last edited by Angiolillo; 02-18-2019 at 00:00.

  7. #57

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    Thank you for all the updates. The slight price increase to the Warhawk makes me favor the Wildcat over it even more.

    I used this opportunity to do some major revisions to the point value spreadsheet. Added are frozen top row, which works great. Also, I was finally able to get the collapsing columns to work properly when uploading to Google Docs. The collapsing columns are for abilities that require optional rules so they are not in view when not used (closed by default). Also notice if you hover over the abilities on the top I embedded the rules. I am trying to make a one stop list builder that does not require rulebook reference while you are doing it. There are two tabs at bottom: One alphabetical, the other by Nation/airplane manufacturer. Feel free to download and customize to your needs.

    Here is the link. Let me know if there are mistakes, omissions, or if you have suggested improvements:

    WGS point values v2 (Google Doc)

    I think there is still enough room to fit an airplane manufactured by Vought...

  8. #58

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    Thanks everyone for their hard work. This will be great for our upcoming tournament in Melbourne. Last year we just used the Ares list, but maybe this will attract some veteran players to come out to play.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokhuah View Post
    Still running fast plane tests with nothing broken found in the points vs abilities. I am particularly fond of the 250 point Mustang (hint: handling+) and would eventually like to get into strategy discussions around cool point+plane combos. Testing fast vs slow+points matches soon.

    But, I confess, I could not stay away from the BoB stuff and decided to post the following session on bgg to help promote the game. And to bring it home here, the final play actually takes an existing scenario and tests the playability of using a different plane and balancing it by using the point system: Bursts in the Dark.

    Special thanks to my daughter for agreeing to run the German bot planes in most scenarios to speed up games so I could get more done. Also, how about a photo of my mobile war room?
    Attachment 220619
    Next time I'm out in Cali we have to get together.

    Thomas

  10. #60

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    I am up for that!

  11. #61

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    The revised point system is now published on Ares site, including Bell P-39/P-40 Airacobra, Kawasaki Ki.100, Nakajima Ki.43, Curtiss Kittyhawk, Polikarpov I-16.
    But Ares doesn’t plan to produce miniatures of these planes.
    They just want the list to be comprehensive of all existing WOW/WOG planes available.
    It also includes WOW Spitfire Mk.I and Mk.II, with lower cost than WOG Spitfire (which has a 60° turn left and right).
    https://www.aresgames.eu/19239

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  12. #62

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    Thank you for the 'heads up' about the new version. Monse.

  13. #63

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    My old eyes are not seeing the Ju.88, nor the Do.17. Any Points for those?

    They will be on the table tomorrow (6 Aug 2020).
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  14. #64

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    Added!

    Several two-seaters and multi-engine planes have also been updated.

  15. #65

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    The file presenting the WW2 Wings of Glory Point System, has been updated,
    including new bombers Dornier 17 and Junkers 88.
    It can be used by players to create balanced dogfight scenarios, to replace equivalent planes in other scenarios, and to organize tournaments (version 1.3 - file updated in January, 2021).
    https://www.aresgames.eu/19239

    Dornier Do.17 Z-2 : 170
    Dornier Do.17 Z-10 : 242
    Junkers Ju.88 A-1 : 94
    Junkers Ju.88 A-4 : 106

    (Junkers values seem to be very low)

    The Multiengine and two-seaters have also been updated.
    [Previous value / Updated value]
    Aichi Val : 70/80
    Avro Lancaster : 193/157
    Avro Lancaster Dambuster : 188/152
    Boeing B-17E : 375/366
    Boeing B-17G : 399/390
    Bristol Beaufighter Mk.I : 300/298
    Bristol Beaufighter Mk.VI : 319/317
    Douglas SBD Dauntless : 102/112
    Heinkel He.111 : 217/208
    Junkers Ju.87 Stuka : 68/81
    Messerschmitt Bf.110 : 234/235
    North American B-25 Mitchell : 169/160
    Yokosuka D4Y1 : 95/97
    Yokosuka D4Y3 : 101/103

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  16. #66

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    In the updated WW2 Point System, (January 2021), Junkers 88 A-1 and A-4 seem to be highly underrated.

    Junkers Ju.88 A-1 : 94
    Junkers Ju.88 A-4 : 106
    Dornier Do.17 Z-2 : 170
    Dornier Do.17 Z-10 : 242
    Junkers Ju.87 Stuka : 68 / 81 (updated value)
    Supermarine Mk.II : 168

    Both Ju.88 versions are faster than both Do.17 versions.
    They have globally the same maneuvers (plus two dive bombing maneuvers for the Ju.88).
    The rear arc of fire is slightly larger for the Do.17, but the gunner has to change position to use the larger arc of fire (so two turns without firing), so the larger arc of fire is not a real advantage as its extreme part will only be used in few situations.
    The Do.17 have three more MG but three of them are managed by the same crew member (changing position - two turns without firing).

    For a game with 170 points for each player, I would rather choose two Ju.88 A-1 (94 points each, total 188 points) than a single Do.17 Z-2 (170 points), and then decrease the resistance value of both Ju.88 A-1 :
    resistance minus 5 for the first one : 5x2=10 points
    resistance minus 4 for the second one : 4x2=8 points
    188 - 10 - 8 = 170 points for both Ju.88, one starts with 5 damage points (resistance 21), the second starts with 4 damage points (resistance 22).
    (as explained in the Point System explanation)

    Two Ju.88 A-1 bombers are supposed to be more difficult to shoot down than one Do.17 Z-2, as they can protect each other by flying in box formation.

    So, higher resistance, higher speed, and equal armaments (as all guns of Do.17 Z-2 can’t be operated at the same time) should lead to the conclusion that Ju.88 A-1 costs at least the same number of points than Do.17 Z-2, and Ju.88 A-4 costs much more points than Do.17 Z-2.

    The three AAR presented in this thread show the same conclusion :
    https://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sh...-Ju-87-bombers

    A lone Spitfire facing respectively
    - two Ju.88 A-1
    - one Do.17 Z-2
    - two Ju.87
    with around 170 points for each side.

    Remark : the same damage tokens have been drawn during the shooting phases for each game.






  17. #67

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    Acceptable arguments I agree with the new quotation

  18. #68


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    Miguel Ángel
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    I was making an excel to plan combats based on this Point System and I miss points for the following ace skills:
    Emergency Pilot
    Experienced Pilot
    Lightfooted
    Perfect Bombardier
    Also a I realized there is no official card for Golden Touch. The rest can be adquired by one plane in particular.

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