Combat Mission Log

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 02-23-2011 04:14

I can well see your point Alastair, and would not want to denigrate the stirling contribution that our colonies made to the war effort. in many theatres they in fact out performed our own troops. not only the ones you mention but also South African and troops from the Indian sub continent as well. I am only saying that I personally would want a log that said R.F.C. on it.
The Col may decide to do otherwise.
Rob.

**Oberst Hajj** · 02-23-2011 04:52

If I recall correctly, neither Canada or Australia flew under their own flags.

**Dom S** · 02-23-2011 05:42

Yeah; there was no independent NZ or Canadian air corps, and the Australian squadrons were "Royal Flying Corps" until 4th January 1918. Thus for anything prior to that date (ie. most of the war....), Royal Flying Corps is 100% historically correct....

"the ANZAC's were not part of the British Army"

Correct, but Aussie and NZ flyers weren't ANZACs.... They were RFC until Jan 1918, and then the Aussies became AFC, while Canadian and Kiwi flyers remained part of the RFC until 1st April, at which point it changed to the RAF, and they were part of that. Thus if you're going to pick one label as being correct for most people most of the time, RFC is it. Otherwise you end up needing 4 different - RFC, RNAS, RAF and AFC....

As for "Imperial Royal Flying Corps" - making up a non-existent name to fit everyone's sensibilities, when there's a historically accurate one that everybody *actually* flew under the title of for most of the war is, umm, let's not go there....

Dom.

**Dom S** · 02-23-2011 06:10

"One problem I see is that Canada, Australia and New Zealand are are at the moment considerd to be part of the RFC,"

Just like they were in 1914, 1915, 1916, 1917, and for many of them 1918, so for a WWI log book, the objection is...? (Sorry, I'm a big fan of the AFC (hence the Snipe decals....) but there's a risk of letting personal preference ride roughshod over actual history here....)

**AlgyLacey** · 02-23-2011 06:16

I am sure the huge numbers of Kiwis, Aussies, South Africans, Rhodesians, Irishmen, Indians, Canadians and Americans, Maltese, etc. who served, fought and flew with the RFC and later the RAF (be it Bomber Command, Fighter or Coastal Command) were most certainly not offended by being considered to be part of the RFC/RAF.

Please don't think me insensitive to modern sensibilities but I don't think you should be offended either. The Empire and Dominions and all that seems now to be regarded as entirely evil and exploitative in some corners (though this may just be in parts of Harare and among republicans) - I don't see it that way and neither did they. Be Proud - they - and by extension you - were involved in something magnificent and brave and appalling. Pray we will never have to send our sons to try to do the same.

Dave

**Danrit** · 02-23-2011 10:55

RFC seems sensible to me!

**Doug** · 02-23-2011 15:05

Thank you all for your views. After reading such I will have to admit that I am fussing about nothing and appologise for throwing a spanner in the works. IF it was good enough to have RFC on my Grandfarthers log book then it will be good enough for me.

**AlgyLacey** · 02-24-2011 00:51

To the bar!

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 02-24-2011 01:21

I was already in there Algy. Lets publish and be damned.
Kyte.

**Baldrick62** · 02-24-2011 05:39

Wings of Gold

Sorry to unzip this again. While I agree completely about Dominion and Commonwealth pilots serving in the RFC, in the same way as French Colonials served in the AM without taking offence, there is a sticky bit of inter-Service rivalry which isn't addressed.

The Royal Naval Air Service (RNAS) has a proud history as long as the RFC, and until the formation of the RAF in 1918 remained a separate , independent organisation. RNAS scout sqns were sent to the aid of the RFC in 1916/17, which I'm sure they were fond of reminding their Army brethren of the RFC! While the Australian Flying Corps was formed largely from ex-RFC personnel, some Australians continued to serve in the 'British' RAF, which is a different precedent to the Americans who has served with the AM prior to their country's entry into the war and then transferred across to the USAS.

Without offending Royal Patents by inventing some mythical title, and in the interest of inter-Service harmony, I'd suggest calling the combination of RNAS, RFC, AFC and RAF what they actually constituted - the 'British Air Services'.

Alternatively, give this a stiff ignoring and back to the bar... hurrah!

**Ed2** · 02-24-2011 12:59

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

I was already in there Algy. Lets publish and be damned.
Kyte.

Hear! Hear!

**MayorJim** · 02-24-2011 17:41

Originally Posted by AlgyLacey

To the bar!

I'm 2 up already!

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-02-2011 02:59

I would like to use this poll to gauge interest in the Log Books that I have recently designed. While this is not a commitment to purchase any thing, I will be using it to help determine how many of each Log Book I should have made up.

You can vote on as many different ones as you like, and doing so will give me better insight into the demand of each one.

Here is what the finished product will look like:

This is what each cover looks like:

1. German

2. British

3. US

4. French

5. Italian

6. Belgium

7. Russian

The actual log pages look like this:

Each Log Book will allow you to record a total of 50 sorties

Thank you for the help,

The Col.

**Attila57** · 03-04-2011 02:47

Col.,

really nice idea and graphics!

Only a correction for Italy logbook.

Corpo Aeronautico del Regio Esercito is the hystorical correct loogbook title because in 1913 the Servizio Aeronautico became Corpo Aeronautico Only in 1923 it became Regia Aeronautica

(a little lesson of italian

: "eserciti" is the plural of "esercito" like Armies is the plural of Army)

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-04-2011 02:54

Thanks, we'll make the corrections on that one.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-04-2011 03:52

There is at least one of each nation needed by me, excepting Russia, Col. However, I would need at least three British ones for my alter egos in the R.F.C. wouldn't we chaps. Yes sir we would like one each please. there you are Col. I was right.
Kyte.

(The poor chaps had too many flying hours I think.) M.O.
Rob.

**Diamondback** · 03-04-2011 16:20

Suggestion for added flavor: maybe translate "Log Book" into the official term in the appropriate language? (On the Russian, this could mean using Cyrillic lettering and translating in smaller font-size).

No love for the Austrians? They've got one whole plane more than the Belgians in Minis...LOL (I kid, though for completeness's sake they should be considered for a "Second Series", along with maybe the Reds.)

I'd consider all...

**MayorJim** · 03-04-2011 16:30

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Suggestion for added flavor: maybe translate "Log Book" into the official term in the appropriate language? (On the Russian, this could mean using Cyrillic lettering and translating in smaller font-size).

No love for the Austrians? They've got one whole plane more than the Belgians in Minis...LOL (I kid, though for completeness's sake they should be considered for a "Second Series", along with maybe the Reds.)

I'd consider all...

A second series? Oh no! ...that would be like waiting for more minis to be released

F

**grumpybear** · 03-04-2011 16:40

I voted for 3 but could use 1 at least of all. Cost would be only problem.

**Diamondback** · 03-04-2011 16:54

...and, before Firefox decided to start having problems with keyboard input and made me nuke the process and restart, I was about to say a digital version for those of us who like to run things via slightly more high-tech means could be cool too.

**Boney10** · 03-05-2011 03:44

Nice ones Col, for me around 3 or 4 for Germany & Brit, plus one of each for others, except never played with the Russian, in fact dont think he seen the light of day since putting him in the hangar

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-05-2011 06:33

Originally Posted by Boney10

Nice ones Col, for me around 3 or 4 for Germany & Brit, plus one of each for others, except never played with the Russion, in fact dont think he seen the light of day since putting him in the hangar

Do you think we shoule institute a W.o.W. international Kibanov day, were we all get ouy his plane and splitarse all over the table with it.
Rob.

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-05-2011 06:47

LOL, maybe we should have an international contest. Everyone get the Russian log book and plays Kibanov as often as they can for 6 months (unless he dies according to the KotA rules). Keep track of his sorties and whoever is able to beat the real Kebanov's record and the rest of the contestants records, wins a prize.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-05-2011 06:51

Could do wonders for sales of Kibanov planes, to say nothing of shifting that warehouse of Russian style log books that you are going to have hanging about for the next five years Col.
Rob.

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-05-2011 06:54

As it is looking now, there most likely will not be any Russian log books laying around... anywhere.

**Gladius** · 03-05-2011 07:03

At least 1 each of German, British, and American, please. Actually, 2 each, to include the nine year old pilot in the family.

**Boney10** · 03-05-2011 07:33

The SWMBO has just seen this thread and taken Kibanov out of his hanger, googled him to see exactly what was the markings on the side of his plane as they looked like someone had slipped with the paintbrush (sigh). That endeth his mission and now back in his hanger

**MayorJim** · 03-05-2011 16:32

Originally Posted by Boney10

The SWMBO has just seen this thread and taken Kibanov out of his hanger, googled him to see exactly what was the markings on the side of his plane as they looked like someone had slipped with the paintbrush (sigh). That endeth his mission and now back in his hanger

Yep, the Lt. Col. at my place seems to pick her planes based on color schemes...I kind of like Kibanov's comet though.

**Ed2** · 03-05-2011 19:16

Originally Posted by Col. Hajj

As it is looking now, there most likely will not be any Russian log books laying around... anywhere.

I'll take two maybe three. I would like to see them with Cyrillic style lettering.

**The Cowman** · 03-05-2011 21:30

They look great Keith, depending on the price point, I could see myself ordering in quantity and reselling them to my flight members to use (at no profit to me)

**grumpybear** · 03-06-2011 06:12

I could use a Russian one. I have a friend who is into all things Russian but not WoW . Hoping to convince him to play Russians.

**Boney10** · 03-06-2011 07:25

Hurrah Kibanov will fly, although the marking on his plane is supposed to be a , believe it or not, a horses head !! well that was the pic my SWMBO googled (bigger sigh)

**Nipotra Paul** · 03-08-2011 01:53

Good morning Col.,
Congratulations for the job, but I would want export some observations to you.
Why don't you try to make to resemble the log book to a book / brevet for the military flight?, with a graphics similar to that of the epoch. Inserting a space for the photo, for a signature of the commander.......etc I don't know if I succeed in explaining me goods in English, but I try there
Is it not possible to insert the Log Book in the personal profile in the forum? where victories and defeats are transcribed only concerning "military campaign", national tournaments, games on line.

Paolo

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-08-2011 03:31

Hello Paolo, thanks for the suggestions on the log books. I think a page showing a photo and other "fluff" type of stuff would be nice too. However, each separate page adds to the cost of the books. Pages that only get printed once per book, like a "fluff" page, cost even more since the quantity printed is so low.

I have give some thought to adding stats to the site. It would require custom coding that is not always cheap. I would need to work out exactly how it would work here on the site and get the layout perfect before allocating any money to it. It is some thing I will continue to think about... but that discussion is for a different thread.

**Snowy** · 03-08-2011 10:06

Here is my input.
I love this and the artwork is very nice.
My suggestion is to go more generic. The binding could be different to allow expandability. This would allow for a 'PAC' of several logs, and then 'Refill' pacs of generic pages. This would address the cost issue and make everyone happy.
I could see myself purchasing a collectable binder (another idea) that the logbooks could be kept in.
Just my two cents worth.
Any way they come, I will be buying though and probably at least one of each.
Great idea!
Cheers!
Erin

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-16-2011 04:44

Alright guys, the German, British, US, and French logs books have been sent to the printers to be made up. I'm expecting them around the end of next week.

I had to cut the other countries, at least on this initial order due to lack of interest in them. Running small quantities of them would drive the cost of all of the books up. I would be willing to run group buys on these other countries if some of you want to do that in order to get them.

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-16-2011 04:53

Thanks Col. I looks as if I will be running up a very big bill with you once the stands come back into stock. Would you like me to send you a rundown of all the pre order or shall I just pay for each item as it becomes available and you keep it for me until everything is back in stock, and you can send it all in one parcel?
Rob.

**MayorJim** · 03-21-2011 12:34

Good news, thanks...just waiting on them to come in...

**Oberst Hajj** · 03-23-2011 02:20

The log books are up on the site for ordering now!

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 03-23-2011 03:49

I am in there Col.

**Hunter** · 03-31-2011 01:17

Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte

I am in there Col.

Me too!

**Flying Officer Kyte** · 04-05-2011 03:20

The log books arrived here in Blighty this morning Col. They are all that I could have wished for when we discussed the idea last year. I will be re ordering some more shortly. They are going to be really useful once KOTA kicks off.
Rob.