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Thread: Stats on planes from the 1930s

  1. #1

    Default Stats on planes from the 1930s

    I am creating some card for the Chaco war but i don't how to determining maneuvers and armaments. does anyone have any stats or procedures for designing such cards. I will post what I have. Included is a Bolivian and Paraguayan plane
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Portez25 front card.jpg   Portez25 back card.jpg   CW14 Osprey front card.jpg   CW14 Osprey back card.jpg  

  2. #2

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    Sorry i misspelled Potez25 will fix it.

  3. #3

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    There are some decks that can deal with some of the later pre-war fighters. They are the ZM,ZL and ZJ decks

    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...e-War-Fighters

    ZJ Deck : For P-26, PzL-11, Dewoitine 510 and all monoplanes with speed 355-400 km/h (173.9 KB) 22 Cards
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1244

    ZM Deck ZM Deck : For Hs123, I-15, He51, and all biplanes with speed 305-350 km/h (158.4 KB) 20 Cards
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1243

    ZL Deck : The ZL deck for : Fiat CR.32, I-152, Ki-10.
    For Biplanes with speeds 355-400 km/h (169.5 KB) 22 Cards
    http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=1242

    Anything slower than 300 km/h can't easily be represented in the WGS system.

  4. #4

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    the ZJ deck does not come through. So should these planes be done in the WW1 game?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vawarner View Post
    the ZJ deck does not come through. So should these planes be done in the WW1 game?
    Given that none used modern weapons, only vickers etc, I suggest WGF mechanics are appropriate.

    The fastest aircraft in WGF are the SE5a and Spad XIII, top speeds 222 and 218 km/h respectively. A and N decks, the fastest.

    The DH4 could do 230km/h at sea level, but at operational altitude, about 200 km/h, which corresponds to the H, L etc decks.

    Now look at the aircraft of the Chaco War

    Vickers Vespa - 224 kmh
    Breguet XIX - 219 kmh
    Vickers 143 - 241 kmh
    CW-14 Osprey - 212 kmh
    Potez 25 - 212 kmh
    Wibault 73 - 227 kmh
    Curtiss P6 - 328 kmh
    Fiat CR20 - 270 kmh
    Junkers F13 - 173 kmh
    Junkers W34 - 265 kmh
    Junkers Ju52 - 195 kmh
    Ford Trimotor - 213 kmh

    Travel Air 6000 - 209 kmh
    Breda Ba44 - 248 kmh
    PT-11 - 190 kmh
    Cant 10 - 160 kmh

    Macchi M18 - 187kmh
    SM 69 - 200 kmh

    So you could do this two ways.
    1.
    Use existing WGF cards but make new decks, some oversize (as with the faster WGS ones), plus some in the N/C speed range for unmaneuverable aircraft. This has the great advantage that it covers other wars too, and one can mix WGF aircraft and stats in. The disadvantage of having to make new decks is obvious.

    2.
    Devalue the WGF decks, so a Curtis P6 would use an A deck, a Cr20 an F deck, Junkers W34 an H deck etc. This will give a good game with not too much inaccuracy, especially since the stats are iffy, maneuverability is pure guesswork etc. None of the planes in the conflict saw service in WWI so we're not confronted with the issue of a DH4a being an H deck in WWI, but a G deck in interwar. The important thing is that it should "feel right" with aircraft having accurate performances relative to one another, the P6 a speed demon, the CR20 fast yet maneuverable, the Vickers 143 a little slow but nippy, the Potez 25 sedate by comparison. Like an SE5a, D.VIII, N17 and Albatros C.III when compared to one another.

  6. #6

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    hmmm thanks for the info i will make the adjustments and see what comes up. one more thing as for the hit point is there a design mechanic for this?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vawarner View Post
    hmmm thanks for the info i will make the adjustments and see what comes up. one more thing as for the hit point is there a design mechanic for this?
    While there is an objective numerical one for WGS involving empty weight in tons, the one for WGF is more subjective, and depends on the year it was designed (later = tougher due to more advanced detailed construction) and reputation.

    We just don't have enough data for Interwar planes to do more than guess. Something that seems about right compared to WGF firing mechanics is HP = empty weight in pounds/100.
    Vickers 143 - 22
    Vickers Vespa - 29
    Breguet 19 - 31
    Potez 25 - 32
    Fiat CR20 - 22

    These figures seem about right when compared to WWI aircraft under fire by the same guns. Many are all-metal construction. They may have cruising speeds greater than many WGF aircraft's maximum dive speed, the speed where the wings would fall off. They are far tougher birds. They may look similar, but in WWI any of these planes would be monsters.

    For example, a late model Fokker D.VII's empty weight is 1477 lbs, equivalent to 15 using this formula. Engine power 185 hp with the later engine. Compare with a Vickers 143, empty weight 2246 lb, and a 450 hp jupiter radial.

    In WGS they're not under fire by a pair of Vickers/Parabellums though, they tend to be shot at by Brownings with double the rate of fire at minimum. Consider the Gloster Gladiator, empty weight 3217 lb and an 830 hp radial. with 4 Brownings.

    2 x 300 rpm (when synchronised) vickers vs 2 x 800 (synchronised) + 2 x 1200 rpm AN Brownings. 600 vs 4000. Even allowing for higher speeds and thus lesser accuracy, and wing mounted rather than coax, thus half effect, different mechanics are needed there. 31 pts for a Breguet XIX is not much if you're being fired at by, say, a Spitfire 1, which would do between 8 and 16 A class damage cards with one burst to a WGF aircraft.

  8. #8

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    Bear in mind: Altitude -- most of these units were not supercharged in any way, so would be down on power up there. It says something that most Chaco War acft. losses were through accident rather than combat....



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