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Thread: WGF IF08 - Billy Barker's Italian Debut (WGF historical scenario for 2 to 4 players).

  1. #1

    Default WGF IF08 - Billy Barker's Italian Debut (WGF historical scenario for 2 to 4 players).

    Pieve di Soligo, 29 November 1917: In response to the defeat of the Italian Army at Caporetto in late October 1917, the following month the RFC sent two squadrons of RE.8s (34 & 42 Sqns) and three of Sopwith Camels (28, 45 & 66 Sqns) to northern Italy. The day after 28 Sqn RFC arrived at Grossa on 28 November aggressive Canadian officer Captain William ‘Billy’ Barker commanding C flight led three other Camels on their first patrol over the Italian Front. About 1215hrs Captain Barker observed a formation of enemy Albatros scouts about 1,000 feet below.

    This WGF historical scenario for 2-4 players set on the Italian Front requires one Series 2 Sopwith Camel (Barker) and one to three Series 3 Albatros D.IIIs (Brumovski, Hautzmayer & Voss).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	<acronym title=WGF IF08 Billy Barker's Italian Debut.jpg  Views: 108  Size: 263.6 KB  ID: 204720" class="thumbnail" style="float:CONFIG" />

    The original PDF of this scenario can be downloaded here http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/dow...o=file&id=2368
    Last edited by Carl_Brisgamer; 01-25-2017 at 22:34.

  2. #2

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    Carl,
    the Albatros D.III's should be using the B deck like the Albatros D.V.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
    Carl,
    the Albatros D.III's should be using the B deck like the Albatros D.V.
    The improved series 153 Oeffag Albatros D.IIIs did not reach the front until after December 1917, and the even better 225hp 253 series until late 1918. These aircraft would be 53 series or early 153 series so the standard D.III stats should be fine.
    Last edited by Carl_Brisgamer; 08-15-2016 at 23:38.

  4. #4

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    This fight could be nasty for the Camel driver. Barker got in, took out the D.III in a couple of bursts then got out.

    Don't forget the Camel starts 'tailing' the target Albatros D.III so the Central Powers player has to show the Entente player their card before it is played and the Entente player can re-arrange their cards as they see fit.

  5. #5

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    Changed the clunky name on this scenario to 'Billy Barker's Italian Debut'.

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    double post
    Last edited by john snelling; 08-16-2016 at 06:44.

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    Carl, where did you get that info from?

    Brumowski 15nd victory on 19/8/17 was in 153.06. He went from a KD fighter to the 153 series. He never had a victory in a 53 series aircraft.

    Arigi 13th victory on 15/9/17 was in 153.15. He never had a victory in a 53 series aircraft.

    Linke-Crawford 5th victory 23/9/17 was in 153.04. He never had a victory in a 53 series aircraft.

    Kiss 8th Victory 15/11/17 was in 153.17. Not known have a victory in a 53 series aircraft

  8. #8

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    Looking into my notes:
    Flik 41J
    Summer 1917: Albatros D.III 53.2 series 53.27, 53.60 on hand
    18 Aug 1917: 4 Brandenburg KDs arrive as replacements
    Aug 1917: Albatros D.III 153 arrive (eventually 153.06, 153.11, 153.16, 153.45, 153.52, 153.60)
    21 Aug 1917: unit had 7 Albatros D.IIIs and 3 Brandenburg KDs.
    Aug – Sep 1917: A small number of Aviatik D.I 38 arrive
    Oct 1917: Albatros D.III 153.153 was on hand

    Flik 42J
    Jun 1917: Albatros D.II (53) by the end of 1917 relegated to training duties.
    Summer 1917: Albatros D.III 53, 153 (53.27, 153.42, 153.58)
    Aug 1917: 5 Brandenburg D.Is and 6 Albatros D.IIIs
    Aug 1917: Aviatik D.I 38.04
    Sep 1917: A line-up on Prosecco airfield shows a D.III with a dark diamond, 153.09 with a white-fringed black circle, 153.58 with a red circle in a white triangle outlined in red, and 153.42 with a black-fringed red heart.

    Flik 51J
    Jun 1917: Albatros series 53 formed the initial complement of 51J
    Sep 1917: Albatros D.III including 153.141
    Sep 1917: A picture shows 8 Albatros D.III including 153.36 (Arigi), 153.33 with a pennant (Froreich), one with a capital “N” (Neumann).
    Starting in Oct 1917: Aviatik D.I 138

    Flik 55J
    Sep 1917 the first squadron to be equipped fully with the Albatros D.III series 153

    Evidence shows that the 153 series was extensively utilized before Dec 1917. All 153s had the 200hp Diamler inline engine (117mph).

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
    Looking into my notes:
    Flik 41J
    Summer 1917: Albatros D.III 53.2 series 53.27, 53.60 on hand
    18 Aug 1917: 4 Brandenburg KDs arrive as replacements
    Aug 1917: Albatros D.III 153 arrive (eventually 153.06, 153.11, 153.16, 153.45, 153.52, 153.60)
    21 Aug 1917: unit had 7 Albatros D.IIIs and 3 Brandenburg KDs.
    Aug – Sep 1917: A small number of Aviatik D.I 38 arrive
    Oct 1917: Albatros D.III 153.153 was on hand

    Flik 42J
    Jun 1917: Albatros D.II (53) by the end of 1917 relegated to training duties.
    Summer 1917: Albatros D.III 53, 153 (53.27, 153.42, 153.58)
    Aug 1917: 5 Brandenburg D.Is and 6 Albatros D.IIIs
    Aug 1917: Aviatik D.I 38.04
    Sep 1917: A line-up on Prosecco airfield shows a D.III with a dark diamond, 153.09 with a white-fringed black circle, 153.58 with a red circle in a white triangle outlined in red, and 153.42 with a black-fringed red heart.

    Flik 51J
    Jun 1917: Albatros series 53 formed the initial complement of 51J
    Sep 1917: Albatros D.III including 153.141
    Sep 1917: A picture shows 8 Albatros D.III including 153.36 (Arigi), 153.33 with a pennant (Froreich), one with a capital “N” (Neumann).
    Starting in Oct 1917: Aviatik D.I 138

    Flik 55J
    Sep 1917 the first squadron to be equipped fully with the Albatros D.III series 153

    Evidence shows that the 153 series was extensively utilized before Dec 1917. All 153s had the 200hp Diamler inline engine (117mph).
    Thanks for the research John. The 153 series although all equipped with the 200hp engine were heavier than the German versions by some 120kg. In the later 153s however the nose was reshaped which resulted in notably better performance. John Guttman in Osprey Duel series 'SPAD VII vs Albatros D.III' reports "in its 153.112-153.211 production batch Oeffag dispensed with the spinner entirely. Altering the design with a rounded nose behind the airscrew actually increased speed by 9kmh." This speed increase was confirmed in wind tunnel tests by Idflieg. From my reading these improved 153 series aircraft did not start to reach the front until winter 1917. Examination of serial numbers of both the 53 series and 153 series on www.theaerodrome.com identifies pilots were still using these early production models into 1918, and I could find no confirmed victories credited to pilots flying 153 series .112-.211 aircraft until at the earliest late January 1918. I therefore stand by my statement the improved 153 series (ie round nosed with better proven speed) was not readily available in numbers at the front until December 1917.

    Given the limitations of the game I am happy to give the early 153 series the same stats as a standard D.III. Any 'unofficial' (and hopefully future Ares produced) round nosed Oeffag 153 series should have the B deck as well as improved climb rate - also from Guttmann page 33 "Stfw Frigyes Hefty, a Hungarian pilot in Flik 42/J, gave a typical appraisal of the new fighter: The 200hp D III was an aeroplane of an excellent design, perfectly balanced and especially fit for aerobatics. Its climbing capacity equalled that of Hanriots and Camels, but its horizontal speed was lower than that of SPADs."

    Going back to this scenario it is likely Barker's opponent was flying an early 153 series or even a 53 series aircraft. As I am endeavouring to limit my aircraft selection for this series of historical scenarios to officially available miniatures I am comfortable leaving the Central Powers players to fly 'standard' D.IIIs.

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    After rereading my original post let me clarify. All 153s should be the B deck.

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    Great idea for a scenario!

    These are the stats I'd give to Austrian Albatros D.III

    Type Man. Dam. Production Operative at front
    Albatros D.III (Oeffag) series 53 J 15 45 produced from June 1917
    Albatros D.III (Oeffag) series 153 B 15 281 produced from December 1917
    Albatros D.III (Oeffag) series 253 A 16 186 produced from June 1918
    Last edited by Angiolillo; 08-17-2016 at 22:22.

  12. #12

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    Thanks Andrea. I hope we do get to see some 'round-nosed' Albatrosen some day.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Great idea for a scenario!

    These are the stats I'd give to Austrian Albatros D.III

    Type Man. Dam. Production
    Albatros D.III (Oeffag) series 53 J 15 45 produced from June 1917
    Albatros D.III (Oeffag) series 153 B 15 281 produced from December 1917
    Albatros D.III (Oeffag) series 253 A 16 186 produced from June 1917
    D.III production
    ---------------------------1917------------------------------1918
    Type----------------------5---6---7---8---9--10--11--12--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10---total
    Alb DIII(Oef)53.2--------5--21--18-----------------------------------------------------------------------44
    Alb DIII(Oef)153------------------8--28--30-22--26--26--19-36--28-37--15--6-----------------------281
    Alb DIII(Oef)253---------------------------------------------------------13--21--40-37--48--42--------201

    I agree with Carl, hopefully we will see some round noses someday.

  14. #14

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    Haven't had a chance to look at this thread until today. Looks like it would make a good introductory scenario at a gaming event.

    Quite by coincidence, there are two mini-conventions coming up that I registered for today...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    Haven't had a chance to look at this thread until today. Looks like it would make a good introductory scenario at a gaming event.

    Quite by coincidence, there are two mini-conventions coming up that I registered for today...
    Hi Sam, this one would be a good scenario for an experienced player to take Barker against three newer players. Have a look at the others in this series of historical scenarios I have posted, they are not all balanced by their very nature but some are well suited to teaching different aspects of the game.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Brisgamer View Post
    Hi Sam, this one would be a good scenario for an experienced player to take Barker against three newer players. Have a look at the others in this series of historical scenarios I have posted, they are not all balanced by their very nature but some are well suited to teaching different aspects of the game.
    Hm, maybe. I wonder if the hapless newbie whom the experienced player picked out as first target would have a chance. Maybe put the experienced player as first target, and three newbies as wingmen and opponent?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenlizard View Post
    Hm, maybe. I wonder if the hapless newbie whom the experienced player picked out as first target would have a chance. Maybe put the experienced player as first target, and three newbies as wingmen and opponent?
    Could work. In any event the Camel needs to get the hell off the board after downing their Albatros or things get sticky.

  18. #18

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    John thanks for the analitic data! I corrected a typo and even a conceptual mistake in my post - dates I gave are for machines being operative at front, not just produced. I will check my sources for production figures and then correct those too.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    John thanks for the analitic data! I corrected a typo and even a conceptual mistake in my post - dates I gave are for machines being operative at front, not just produced. I will check my sources for production figures and then correct those too.
    Albatros D.III, in my opinion is one of the best aircraft produced during WW1. The most amazing aspect of the D.III was the airframe was capable of accepting more powerful and heavier engines without a falloff in flight performance. MvR even suggested that the Albatros D.V was a waste and urged for the continuation of the D.III.


    The First victory for the 153 series was Brumowski 15nd victory on 19 Aug 1917. Arigi 13th victory on 15 Sep 1917 was in 153.15. Linke-Crawford 5th victory 23 Aug 1917 was in 153.04. The 153 made an immediate impact upon arrival. Finally the AH had a aircraft that equal or superior to any IT aircraft. The problem was not quality but, quantity.

    Max Speed from "Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of WW1".

    Albatros D.II 53 series with 185 Diamier 170 km/hr (106mph)

    Albatros D.III 53.2 series with 185 Diamier 180 km/hr (112mph)

    Albatros D.III 153 series with 200 Diamier 188 km/hr (117mph) with spinner, with redesigned nose 197 km/hr.

    Albatros D.III 253 series with 225 Diamier 202 km/hr (125mph)

    Always give some room for error with regard to performance data specially on aircraft built 100 years ago.

    I think your Man. decks are correct but I think the damage should be 15 for all. Just my opinion.

  20. #20

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    I can not find my sources now to see why I gave 16 points to 253s, but I find here some references to a strenghtening of Series 253:
    https://a2asimulations.com/store/ind...products_id=52
    Of course they could be irrelevant so your suggestion of 15 could be good anyway.

    The page linked above also confrirms your production data of 201 machines of Series 253.
    Here I find 45 machines for Sereiues 53, in a first batch of 34 (serial 53.20 to 53.53) and then one of 11 (serial 53.54 to 53.64):
    https://books.google.it/books?id=C-S...batros&f=false

    170 km/h and 180 km/h are in the same speed range in our simplified system so they can share the same deck. Same for 188 km/h and 197 km/h. We made steps of 20 km/h from one arrow lenght to the next.
    A is in the right speed range, but if I'd have a chance to make a deck on purpose I'd add one sideslip per side.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    I can not find my sources now to see why I gave 16 points to 253s, but I find here some references to a strenghtening of Series 253:
    https://a2asimulations.com/store/ind...products_id=52
    Of course they could be irrelevant so your suggestion of 15 could be good anyway.

    The page linked above also confrirms your production data of 201 machines of Series 253.
    Here I find 45 machines for Sereiues 53, in a first batch of 34 (serial 53.20 to 53.53) and then one of 11 (serial 53.54 to 53.64):
    https://books.google.it/books?id=C-S...batros&f=false

    170 km/h and 180 km/h are in the same speed range in our simplified system so they can share the same deck. Same for 188 km/h and 197 km/h. We made steps of 20 km/h from one arrow lenght to the next.
    A is in the right speed range, but if I'd have a chance to make a deck on purpose I'd add one sideslip per side.
    Looks great!
    Another consideration is how does the aircraft fly in comparison to its adversaries. I think your game design really does this justice.

  22. #22

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    Had a go at this one - AAR is here

    "He is wise who watches"



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