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Thread: WGS Battle of Britain Update

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Holmes, I have the highest admiration for your powers of deduction, but this time you have excelled even yourself.

    Spitfires from the Starter Set and the Squadron Pack will be from the 610 Squadron.
    109Es from the Starter Set and the Squadron Pack will be from JG2 "Richthofen".
    Hurricanes from the Squadron Pack will be from the 303 Squadron.
    Stukas from the Squadron Pack will be from St.G77.
    I'm on WiFi for a while so here are some pictures:

    610 Squadron
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    303 (Polish) Squadron
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    JG 2 "Richthofen"
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    StG 77
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  2. #102

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    Great news.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  3. #103

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    And please, Ares, make the BoB Starter inlay spacious enough to let us store sleeved cards!

  4. #104

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    I've already repainted 6 Hurries for 303 Squadron, but 610 Spits will go very well alongside my 609 repaints (work in progress!)

    JG2 and StG 77 - YES, PLEASE!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  5. #105

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    By the way, I found a note on Ares Facebook profile there will be made a revision of Spitfire's manouvre deck. Any ideas what thay will do with it?

  6. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    By the way, I found a note on Ares Facebook profile there will be made a revision of Spitfire's manouvre deck. Any ideas what thay will do with it?
    Probably add a 60 degree turn each way; the Spitfire Mk.IX has these, and the question came up why not the Mk.I/IIs.
    Historically, the Spitfire could out turn the Bf-109E, at least in the horizontal. In DoW/WGS, it can't.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  7. #107

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    That makes sense - thank you for pretty fast answer. Let's see what happens with Zeros one day

  8. #108

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    One would assume the same would follow with the Zero's! I wonder if the take up of this game might have been different in the past if those turns had been included?

  9. #109

    JeffM
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    Think there will be any way to add the revised maneuver cards to my current decks ?

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
    Think there will be any way to add the revised maneuver cards to my current decks ?
    Only if you scan the new altered cards Jeff.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
    Think there will be any way to add the revised maneuver cards to my current decks ?
    I can't imagine how Area Games give us "Wings of War" design cards But there will be a fan way, I hope.

  12. #112

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    | do dislike it when changes like this are made. It is one thing producing a set of movement cards, but quite another adding an odd card to a set and spoiling it. When Nexus went to climb and dive, they included extra cards in the movement decks to help update the earlier sets. I hope that they will do this with the new aircraft packs. The only down side would be the Wings of Glory Logo on the backs. A bit of a give away on the next move amongst a set of Wings of War cards.

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by gully_raker View Post
    Only if you scan the new altered cards Jeff.
    Scan the front of the new card, scan the back of an old Wings of War card, print out front and back on suitable card stock - voila.

  14. #114

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    This planed maneuver will be always visible on your cockpit.

    I understand, that Ares Games will not produce only card decks to stay in business.

    If you want to fly your "old" crates with new maneuvers - buy the new miniatures!



    ...and: NO SAILS!
    Voilà le soleil d'Austerlitz!

  15. #115

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    Ah yes Sven, I will certainly buy the new miniatures, but that will not provide the extra cards for the old miniatures!

    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  16. #116

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    ...but the old miniatures aren't their...

    I would be happy for them, but don't expect it.

  17. #117

    Default Mikey's Quick Fix for Outdated Wings of War Spitfire Decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    By the way, I found a note on Ares Facebook profile there will be made a revision of Spitfire's manouvre deck. Any ideas what thay will do with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
    Think there will be any way to add the revised maneuver cards to my current decks ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    Ah yes Sven, I will certainly buy the new miniatures, but that will not provide the extra cards for the old miniatures!

    Rob.
    Hmmm... I have four Nexus Spitfires, and the Squadron Booster Pack so I don't mix up the decks when flying a flight of planes. What to do with this?

    How about using a blank speed counter? Mark an extra blank speed counter with a sharp turn symbol, and use it with any card (sort of like the vertical dive-bombing marker). Then, sub in the Ares maneuver card for the turn you want to make. That way, your opponent has no idea you are going to make a sharp turn, until you reveal the marker.

    This way, I only need to have the Ares cards available for the few times I make those maneuvers with my Nexus planes.

    I will be buying the starter set, so I will have the cards I need for all my Nexus and Ares planes.

    Problem Solved!
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Kyte View Post
    | do dislike it when changes like this are made. It is one thing producing a set of movement cards, but quite another adding an odd card to a set and spoiling it. When Nexus went to climb and dive, they included extra cards in the movement decks to help update the earlier sets. I hope that they will do this with the new aircraft packs. The only down side would be the Wings of Glory Logo on the backs. A bit of a give away on the next move amongst a set of Wings of War cards.

    Rob.
    Easiest way to solve this problem is to sleeve those cards using sleeves that do not have a clear back... I should have a good option for that pretty soon on the AA store

  19. #119

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberst Hajj View Post
    Easiest way to solve this problem is to sleeve those cards using sleeves that do not have a clear back... I should have a good option for that pretty soon on the AA store
    Good move Keith.
    The Oberst comes up with a simple answer every time.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  21. #121

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    Personally, I prefer Sven's answer.....................

    Quote Originally Posted by Marechallannes View Post

    If you want to fly your "old" crates with new maneuvers - buy the new miniatures!



    ...and: NO SAILS!

    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  22. #122

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    You just like the no sails bit Tim, lol

    Never Knowingly Undergunned !!

  23. #123

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    Got it in one!

    Thanks to a new Forum pal in N.Z. I have finally got examples of all of the Battle of Britain 'Nexus' planes.
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Helmut View Post
    Got it in one!

    Thanks to a new Forum pal in N.Z. I have finally got examples of all of the Battle of Britain 'Nexus' planes.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Probably add a 60 degree turn each way; the Spitfire Mk.IX has these, and the question came up why not the Mk.I/IIs.
    Historically, the Spitfire could out turn the Bf-109E, at least in the horizontal. In DoW/WGS, it can't.
    Karl
    There is actually some dispute about that one.
    Some say the 109 could out turn a Spitfire, but the issue was that the Spit would kinda rattle when it was about to depart, the 109 simply went out of control without that 'heads up' from the airframe. Meaning only the best 109 pilots could turn with the Spit, the rest weren't overly keen on pushing it that far.
    Wish I could find the link to the documentary I watched, but sadly it was years ago.
    Can't help but wonder what will happen to these early BoB Brits when they push the nose forward, it shouldn't be pretty

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfish View Post
    There is actually some dispute about that one.
    Some say the 109 could out turn a Spitfire, but the issue was that the Spit would kinda rattle when it was about to depart, the 109 simply went out of control without that 'heads up' from the airframe. Meaning only the best 109 pilots could turn with the Spit, the rest weren't overly keen on pushing it that far.
    Wish I could find the link to the documentary I watched, but sadly it was years ago.
    Can't help but wonder what will happen to these early BoB Brits when they push the nose forward, it shouldn't be pretty
    Was it this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpTrygZfC-g


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  27. #127

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    It may well have been.

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikkifriend View Post
    Could be; at 4:30.

    Gallard did describe a maneuver using the vertical wherein a 109 could out turn a Spitfire. How many pilots not flying with him knew this, and how difficult it was, I don't know.
    I'm not sure that adding a 60 to the mix, even as a difficult maneuver, isn't a bit of overkill.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  29. #129

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    Yeah, that would be it at 4:30. It's been years since I watched that documentary Can't say I agree with all of it, but it seems a smart approach to it than many so called documentaries I've watched.
    Could be fun as an Ace skill, a tighter than normal turn for the type, with some recovery counters.

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfish View Post
    Yeah, that would be it at 4:30. It's been years since I watched that documentary Can't say I agree with all of it, but it seems a smart approach to it than many so called documentaries I've watched.
    Could be fun as an Ace skill, a tighter than normal turn for the type, with some recovery counters.
    Now that has some promise. You could have it for both the Spitfire and Bf.109.

    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  31. #131

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    Excellent idea Stephen.
    You can then decide just who gets the advantage.
    From the info in the documentary, certainly not a move for rookies.
    Then the overdive problem with the Spits carb may also be worth a thread later on.
    Rob.
    "Courage is the art of being the only one who knows you're scared to death."

  32. #132

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    Yes, Rob; how would we model the disadvantage of non-fuel injected engines into WGS? In Fighting Wings, it's factored in because of the use of your wings attitude, but there's no such indication in WGS.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  33. #133

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    It's something I'd certainly like to see a rule for when BoB set is released. I had to deal with it in Il-2 on PC, I don't mind dealing with it in Wings of Glory. The Russian I-16 had the same issue, nose down and the engine dies, you had to roll and that roll bought the 109's time and distance.

    I imagine there is room in the game for 'ace maneuvers' turns that are just a bit tighter for example. As long as they don't go all X-wing phantom with the cards, it would be quite fun. Fighting 4v4 where one of the Aircraft behaves just that tiny bit differently makes for memorable games I'd imagine.

    I must admit I'm clueless, I'm still reading through the rules at the moment, but it would seem to fit.

  34. #134

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    The Spitfire's elliptical wing also had a twist down the length, which made the inner wing stall before the outer wing. If you knew this, you'd feel a vibration in the airframe as you attempted to crank a turn too tight. The 109 didn't give a warning, and when cranking too tight, the whole wing stalled, and the plane departed controlled flight. This gave Spitfire pilots an advantage in trying to turn inside a 109, especially rookie pilots.

    Experienced 109 pilots might be able to turn with, or even inside a Spitfire. But if Spitfire rookies had that warning, they could outfly average 109 pilots.

    This is reflected in the above video's comments about experienced 109 pilots pushing their planes harder.
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGuy59 View Post
    The Spitfire's elliptical wing also had a twist down the length, which made the inner wing stall before the outer wing. If you knew this, you'd feel a vibration in the airframe as you attempted to crank a turn too tight. The 109 didn't give a warning, and when cranking too tight, the whole wing stalled, and the plane departed controlled flight. This gave Spitfire pilots an advantage in trying to turn inside a 109, especially rookie pilots.

    Experienced 109 pilots might be able to turn with, or even inside a Spitfire. But if Spitfire rookies had that warning, they could outfly average 109 pilots.

    This is reflected in the above video's comments about experienced 109 pilots pushing their planes harder.
    Yep thats what gave the average age 19 yo RAF pilots the edge on the older average age 22 yo Luftwaffe pilots. German airman had seen action in most of Europe and were well versed in aerial combat against (dare I say it ) lesser fighters before they came across the Spitfire

    Waiting for the hornets to sting me now I have shaken the nest


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfish View Post
    It's something I'd certainly like to see a rule for when BoB set is released. I had to deal with it in Il-2 on PC, I don't mind dealing with it in Wings of Glory. The Russian I-16 had the same issue, nose down and the engine dies, you had to roll and that roll bought the 109's time and distance.

    I imagine there is room in the game for 'ace maneuvers' turns that are just a bit tighter for example. As long as they don't go all X-wing phantom with the cards, it would be quite fun. Fighting 4v4 where one of the Aircraft behaves just that tiny bit differently makes for memorable games I'd imagine.

    I must admit I'm clueless, I'm still reading through the rules at the moment, but it would seem to fit.
    That could be a good House rule for Bob Stephen . Keep on cooking up those ideas.


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  37. #137

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    My attempt at taking fuel injection into account is likely to be full of holes, but I'll share
    Give the planes that suffer from it 2 Dive cards. One very short, a red stall for example. You went into a dive by pushing negative G, your engine cuts which is why you move such a short distance.

    The second must be shorter than a normal dive, perhaps a half way red arrow, this one represents the time taken to roll onto your back before diving, you travel further than in the first instance as you don't cut the power, but you aren't as fast as others because you wasted time rolling before descending.

    Works in theory?

  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfish View Post
    My attempt at taking fuel injection into account is likely to be full of holes, but I'll share
    Give the planes that suffer from it 2 Dive cards. One very short, a red stall for example. You went into a dive by pushing negative G, your engine cuts which is why you move such a short distance.

    The second must be shorter than a normal dive, perhaps a half way red arrow, this one represents the time taken to roll onto your back before diving, you travel further than in the first instance as you don't cut the power, but you aren't as fast as others because you wasted time rolling before descending.

    Works in theory?
    Sounds plausible , but the proof of the pudding...... to coin a bad kitchen pun.

    I shall give it a go in my next Bob mission. :thumbsup;


    I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings
    Coming down is the hardest thing

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinfish View Post
    My attempt at taking fuel injection into account is likely to be full of holes, but I'll share
    Give the planes that suffer from it 2 Dive cards. One very short, a red stall for example. You went into a dive by pushing negative G, your engine cuts which is why you move such a short distance.
    The second must be shorter than a normal dive, perhaps a half way red arrow, this one represents the time taken to roll onto your back before diving, you travel further than in the first instance as you don't cut the power, but you aren't as fast as others because you wasted time rolling before descending.
    Works in theory?
    Would be easier to have the Spit Stall (representing a roll) before it can dive thus giving the advantage to the 109 which can just dive.
    Perhaps you can give it a try too Paul ?
    (At 15.30 in the doc above)

    "He is wise who watches"

  40. #140

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    It would work better, I overlooked that 2 dives reduces altitude by 2 levels. Forcing a stall before a dive would be perfect.

  41. #141

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    Nice to see the Seven Sisters cliffs & Beachy Head in the simulation at the end

    "He is wise who watches"

  42. #142

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    Pic of the Squadron packs on Ares' Instagram page

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BIFTgkKhYzt/

  43. #143

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    They look good, too bad we have to wait another 4 months

  44. #144

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    To me it looks like these bad boys are painted, can't see any of those horrible unfinished edges but then again it is hard to see from above. Hopefully they have gone back to Nexus quality for their Star of the Show release.

  45. #145

  46. #146

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    Neat that they got the Stuka into a standard sized box!

  47. #147

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan-Sam View Post
    So let's bring them here:

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    I am going to buy so many of these.......

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xen View Post
    Neat that they got the Stuka into a standard sized box!
    Yesterday I received P-47, D4Y, Bf.109K and P-47. They are in standard sized boxes too.

    And they all seem to cost the standard prize, so no more higher prices for two-seaters as when the game was called Wings of War WW2 Miniatures:

    http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/...iniatures.html

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angiolillo View Post
    Yesterday I received P-47, D4Y, Bf.109K and P-47. They are in standard sized boxes too.

    And they all seem to cost the standard prize, so no more higher prices for two-seaters as when the game was called Wings of War WW2 Miniatures:

    http://www.aerodromeaccessories.com/...iniatures.html
    Good news Andrea. Would you know the official climb rates and top altitudes for the 109K, P-47 and Judy?

    I asked that question on the Ares Facebook page a while ago but have not received an answer yet.

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