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Thread: Color: British PC10 "Standard Khaki"

  1. #1

    Default Color: British PC10 "Standard Khaki"

    Why is there so much confusion over what color PC10 should be? The specification for PC10 (Protective Coating Spec. No. 10) is fairly well defined. But the spec only outlined what proportions of each pigment should be used (and it was slightly modified over time.)
    • The Yellow Ochre (iron oxide) can have different proportions of Fe2O3. The more of it, the more reddish-brown the color.
    • What the pigments were mixed with (cellulose varnish, cellulose dope, oil varnish...).
    • What order they were painted on, how many coats, and whether top varnish was applied.
    • Weathering and sun bleaching
    • Etc.

    The result is a wide range of colors that can all fall into the PC10 description. This table is based on one in Windsock International, v.4, No.2, Summer 1988. The darker the pigment, the more it's clearly a brown; the lighter, the more a greenish cast (actually, yellow+black). The more weathered and faded the paint, the more it tends toward grey.

    Warning: do not trust the colors you see on your monitor! (On my monitor, the colors I see are much lighter and slightly more yellow than the paint chips.) Unless you have a high-end, well-calibrated monitor, instead visit your paint store and pick up some of the sample chips listed below, then use those for your color-matching efforts. Those paint colors have been chosen to match the Methuen colors mentioned in the original research. (Color differences measured by DE2000 in CIElab color space, with D65 illuminant [like noon sunlight]). See the next posting for lists of matching paint samples and hobby paints.

    Fabric Condition Light Pigment Normal Pigment Dark Pigment Darkest¹ Pigment
    New
    Average
    Weathered
    Well-worn

    The most typical brown-grey colors ranged between and .

    RNAS colors and thickly-varnished RFC paints were somewhat greener:
    Greener
    Tones

    As a further note, Munson's Bombers, Patrol and Reconnaissance Aircraft, 1914-1919 notes that all British finishes (with the exception of some late-war night colours) were highly glossy.

    ¹ = perceptually the third column is actually darker, but these colors are the most shaded towards brown.
    Last edited by ReducedAirFact; 05-22-2016 at 12:48.

  2. #2

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    The numbers in parentheses are CIElab colors measured from Methuen and therefore the target color in the matches.

    While no one is going to use house paints on their planes, paint stores stock an excellent selection of samples for use in comparing colors. Dulux colors are also sold as Glidden, CIL, Pittsburg, and Porter paints.

    House and Standard Colors (*=excellent match); Color Sources: Windsock International, v.4, No.2, Summer 1988
    Fabric Condition Light Pigment Normal Pigment Dark Pigment Most Brown Pigment
    New (50.42, -4.21, 38.61)
    Beauti-Tone Pea Soup C26-1-1540-3
    Dulux Crested Moss 70YY 21/335
    FS 595c 34259
    RAL 095 50 40 **
    Sherwin-Williams Fervent Brass 6405
    (36.28, -0.42, 29.63)
    no good match
    (33.09, -0.45, 26.86)
    Dulux Asian Moss 45YY 11/200
    Pantone 5815 C *
    (38.05, 1.21, 22.43)
    Beauti-Tone Queen Lioness D12-1-0284-3
    Dulux Olive Brown 20YY 12/163
    Pantone 7770 C *
    RAL 085 40 20
    Sherwin-Williams Olive Oscuro 9215
    Average (51.56, -4.14, 29.03)
    Beauti-Tone Tropical Twist C41-1-0403-3 *
    Behr Green Tea Leaf M330-7 *
    Pantone 3995U *
    RAL 100 50 30 *
    Sherwin-Williams Rural Green 6418
    (50.45, -2.17, 32.61)
    DIN6164 TSD 1-5-4
    FS595c 34259
    NCS1950 S 5030-G90Y
    RAL 095 50 30 *
    Sherwin-Williams Bengal Grass 6411
    (34.04, -1.54, 19.85)
    Behr Killimanjaro N340-7
    Dulux Asian Moss 45YY 11/200
    FS595c 34130
    (39.32, 0.41, 16.14)
    Beauti-Tone Jungle Cover D14-1-0347-3 *
    Behr Adventurer N330-7
    Behr Classic Bronze N310-7 *
    BS4800/5252 10 C 39 Dark Olive
    DIN6164 TSD 1-3-5
    Dulux Olive Brown 20YY 12/163
    FS595c 24098
    Sherwin-Williams Protégé Bronze 6153
    Valspar Prairie Foliage 6008-2C **
    Weathered (51.99, -4.03, 26.04)
    DIN6164 TSD 1-4-4
    Dulux Alligator Pear 70YY 25/20
    Pantone 385 U *
    Valspar La Fonda Deep Olive 6006-6C
    (50.89, -2.52, 29.18)
    Beauti-Tone Tropical Twist C41-1-0403-3 *
    Behr Valley Vineyards M310-7
    Benjamin Moore Newt Green 2149-10
    DIN6164 TSD 1-4-4
    Pantone 3995 U **
    RAL 095 50 30 **
    (35.16, -1.96, 18.11)
    Beauti-Tone African Queen D16-1-0375-3
    Behr Crushed Oregano MQ6-28 *
    Benjamin Moore Mediterranean Olive 2142-10
    Dulux Forest Floor 70YY 09/175
    FS595c 34130
    Pantone 7764 C
    Sherwin-Williams Best Bronze 6160
    (39.65, 0.22, 13.83)
    Beauti-Tone Hannover Hills D26-1-0228-3 *
    Behr Classic Bronze N310-7 *
    Benjamin Moore Durango 2137-30
    DIN6164 TSD 1-3-5
    Dulux Loam 50YY 12/095
    FS595c 34088 Olive Drab CARC *
    Pantone 448 U*
    Sherwin-Williams Garden Gate 6167
    Well-worn (51.98, -3.49, 19.69)
    Beauti-Tone Sonata D17-2-0381-4
    FS595c 34258
    NCS1950 S 5020-G70Y *
    Pantone 7761 U *
    RAL 100 50 20 *
    Sherwin-Williams Edamame 7729
    Sherwin-Williams Olive Grove 7734
    Valspar Mark Twain House Grey Brick 6007-4C
    (51.95, -2.63, 20.46)
    Beauti-Tone Land Before Time C39-2-0360-3
    Behr Sorrel Leaf N340-6 *
    Benjamin Moore Alligator Green 2143-20
    DIN6164 TSD 1-3-4
    Dulux Moss Agate 45YY 20/168
    Pantone 2327 C
    Sherwin-Williams Verde Marron 9124
    (35.68, -1.67, 12.95)
    Beauti-Tone Evening Dove D33-2-0451-3
    Beauti-Tone Monogram D31-1-042403
    Beauti-Tone Grime D32-2-0444-3
    Behr Russian Olive N350-7
    Benjamin Moore Artichoke 2141-10
    DIN6164 TSD 1-3-6 **
    Dulux Loam 50YY 12/095
    FS595 33070 Olive Drab Camouflage
    NCS1950 S 7010-G70Y
    Sherwin-Williams Muddle Basil 7745
    (40.19, -0.04, 8.89)
    Beauti-Tone Monk's Cloth D24-2-0220-3
    Beauti-Tone Ares Shadow D23-1-0207-3
    Behr Patio Stone N360-6 *
    Benjamin-Moore Durango 2137-30 **
    BS 634 Slate
    DIN6164 TSD 2-2-5
    Dulux Grey Squirrel 30YY 14/070
    FS595c 20068
    NCS1950 S 7005-G80Y
    Pantone Black 2U **
    RAL 090 40 10 **
    Sherwin Williams Suitable Brown 7054
    Valspar Falcon's Plume 6002-2C

    House and Standard Colors, Typical Range (*=excellent match); Paint Samples from Windsock International, v.4, No.2, Summer 1988
    Light Dark
    (43.15, -0.05, 13.57)
    Beauti-Tone Jungle Cover D14-1-0347-3
    Behr Adventurer N330-7
    Benjamin Moore Turtle Green 2142-20
    DIN6164 TSD 1-2-5 *
    Dulux Grey Squirrel 30YY 14/070
    FS595c 24098
    NCS1950 S 6010-G90Y
    Pantone 449 U
    Sherwin-Williams Suitable Brown 7054
    (34.06, 3.5, 8.19)
    AS X64 Chocolate *
    Beauti-Tone Brown Suede D24-1-0221-3
    Behr Museum MQ2-44 *
    Benjamin Moore Ferret Brown 2108-10
    BS381C 449 Service Brown *
    BS5252 08 C 40 Brown *
    DIN6164 TSD 3-2-6 *
    Dulux Slate Brown 0YY 09/087
    Dulux Trade 10YY 08/093 Rum Caramel 2 *
    FS595c 30051 Leather Brown
    Pantone 2335 C
    RAL Classic 7013 Brown Grey
    Sherwin-Williams Well-Bred Brown 7027 *

    House and Standard Colors, RNAS & Thick-Varnished (*=excellent match); Methuen colors from Windsock International, v.4, No.2, Summer 1988, Windsock Datafile 34
    Light Medium Dark Most Brown
    (51.12, -3.85, 42.9)
    Beauti-Tone Pea Soup C26-1-1540-3
    Behr Thai Curry M320-7 *
    Dulux Triple Olives 45YY 19/400
    RAL 095 50 40 *
    Sherwin-Williams Bengal Grass 6411
    (39.65, -3.18, 31.41)
    Beauti-Tone Rain Boots B8-1-0802-3
    Dulux Carolina 60YY 28/443 *
    RAL 095 40 30*
    Sherwin-Williams Saguaro 6419
    (36.63, 0.48, 31.58)
    Dulux Asian Moss 45YY 11/200
    Pantone 455C
    (37.71, 4.18, 31.72)
    Dulux Olympic Bronze 20YY 12/263 *
    NCS1950 S6030-Y **
    Pantone 147C
    RAL 080 40 30

    Hobby Paints (No Scale Correction)
    Fabric Condition Light Pigment Normal Pigment Dark Pigment Most-Brown Pigment
    New Reaper MSP 9177 Camouflage Green
    Average Vallejo 70.882 Middlestone Citadel Death World Forest
    Reaper 9220 Olive Skin Shadow
    Weathered Model Masters 4796 Panzer Dunkergelb Vallejo 70.879 Green Brown
    Reaper MSP 9159 Worn Olive *
    Vallejo 70.887 Brown Violet *
    Vallejo MC 94.924 Russian Uniform
    Model Masters 4728 Olive Drab
    Reaper MSP 9246 Brown Sand
    Well-worn Tamiya XF49 Khaki Vallejo 70.887 Brown Violet *
    Vallejo Game Color 72067 Cayman Green *
    Tamiya XF-67 Nato Green
    Reaper MSP 9158 Olive Drab*
    Vallejo 70.830 Ger. Fieldgrey WWII *
    Vallejo 70.941 Burnt Umber
    Tamiya XF-51 Olive Drab
    Reaper MSP 9085 Shadowed Stone
    Green-Cast Varnish Lightest Light Medium Dark
    Green-Cast Varnish Reaper MSP 9177 Camouflage Green Vallejo 921 English Uniform **
    Last edited by ReducedAirFact; 09-03-2016 at 21:43. Reason: reaper

  3. #3

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    Thanks so much for doing this - it promises to be Amazingly helpful!
    I laugh in the face of danger - then I hide until it goes away!

  4. #4

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    Fantastic! This will be a great help. New planes, old planes and in between. Thanks Daryl.

  5. #5

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    All right, a first stab at color-matching against house paints is done! I used the color-matching database built into the Nix color sensor software to do the matching, along with http://www.e-paint.co.uk/Convert_lab.asp for standards-matching. (Technical details: for matching, I looked for colors whose CIELab values were within about 4.0 [DE2000] from the Methuen colors in the reference material.)

    I plan to raid the house paint stores tomorrow and pick up free sample paint chip-strips listed above, where possible, to see how they measure under the color sensor. (As mentioned, you can't really trust your monitor...but hopefully the paint samples at the store are a good match to the CIELab colors the paint manufacturers specify.) Using the paint chips for manufacturers I have, I can also look for chips from other manufacturers (like Valspar). No one is going to paint their miniatures with house paint, but you can't beat the selection or price of paint sample chips you can find in home-paint stores, and those make a much better reference than a textual description or RGB value on a monitor.

    As for hobby-paint matching, I've only got a couple Vallejo and Testors Model Master paints in this range to test, so I'm pretty limited in what I can authoritatively say about hobby paints. After I get the house paint chips, I can take them to the hobby store and try to spot a few more candidates for PC10 matches in the hobby paint section. It might be good to add a table for which paints to choose if you're aiming for scale-effect correction, too. They'd be roughly 20% lighter for 1/144.

  6. #6

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    The local paint stores were happy to help with the PC10 project. (Seriously, that Sherwin-Williams fan deck is an excellent purchase at only US$12.50 -- it should be a nice aid in paint-matching, and much much less than a used, 30-year-old copy of Methuen.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7

  8. #8

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    New Update: I've added data above for the hobby paints I have easy access to (Vallejo, Model Master, Tamiya, and Citadel). I don't have access to Humbrol or several other brands unless I special-order.

    (The rest of this post is superceded by this thread: An Open Offer: Send me your hobby paint samples.))
    Last edited by ReducedAirFact; 06-11-2016 at 09:52. Reason: Point to new "offer" thread

  9. #9

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    Daryl, this thread and the others you have done are very useful. Can you see if they can be 'stickied' so they don't disappear over time?
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Daryl, this thread and the others you have done are very useful. Can you see if they can be 'stickied' so they don't disappear over time?
    Thanks, Steve! Personally, I'd like to see a new Sub-Forum underneath the Hobby Room for the topic, but there probably needs to be a larger set of threads to make a strong case for it. I hope to -- as time allows -- add threads for French and Italian national colors, French yellow and camouflage colors, PC14, German camouflage colors, underside colors, etc. And of course others can report their findings and research. Putting them in a sub-forum will keep all the color/paint threads together and keep them from getting too buried without adding a big pile of stickied threads to the (more general) Hobby Room set. In that sub-forum we could sticky the "Why we'll never get it exactly right" thread, since it acts as an introduction and set of caveats to the entire topic. And maybe another sticky emphasizing why you can't trust what you see on your monitor.

    There's a lot of good color data out there; unfortunately a good fraction of it is in the old nearly-inaccessible Methuen system, since that is what Windsock has been using for years.

  11. #11

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    Extra special research.
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  12. #12

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    I added a couple more Vallejo colors as good matches for shades of PC10, including 70.921 English Uniform and German Fieldgray WWII.

  13. #13



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