Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter - My first Incursion on Red Eagle Miniatures

[Blackronin]

This is a Red Eagle (ex Skytrex) metal Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter.



I needed 2 for my solo campaign.



Although the wings are very thick I do like this miniature. It has personality.



Besides I had to paint them now.



Before the Ares miniatures are on market...



Or I would postpone.



As I've done with others...



I still have two Sopwith Triplanes to build and paint... And 200 WW2 planes...

[Walter Nowotny]

Very nicely done. Will you be using the Bristol maneuver deck on these? I have never built a metal plane model before but I do have some on the way. I am curious, how durable do you think they are compared to the regular mini's? My fear is that they will not take a good accidental dropping like the plastic ones do, and with older hands you know that happens a lot.

[fast.git]

Very nicely done. Will you be using the Bristol maneuver deck on these?

Are you referring to the Bristol Fighter? The F.2B uses the "S" deck and, according to the Unofficial Stats Committee, the Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter should use a "V" deck... huh. That's the same as the Albatros D.I/D.II. Wonder if the 1-1/2 Strutter will still be using that...? Or will it get a new deck (or use a different, already published deck)?

[Blackronin]

Very nicely done. Will you be using the Bristol maneuver deck on these? I have never built a metal plane model before but I do have some on the way. I am curious, how durable do you think they are compared to the regular mini's? My fear is that they will not take a good accidental dropping like the plastic ones do, and with older hands you know that happens a lot.

Thanks Jim.
You must be more careful with the metal ones. But a good spray of varnish goes a long way.

I use the K deck for the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strut. At least it's what I have in the unofficial rules...

Are you referring to the Bristol Fighter? The F.2B uses the "S" deck and, according to the Unofficial Stats Committee, the Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutter should use a "V" deck... huh. That's the same as the Albatros D.I/D.II. Wonder if the 1-1/2 Strutter will still be using that...? Or will it get a new deck (or use a different, already published deck)?

Isn't the V deck a bit fast for the Strutter?

[Flying Helmut]

I built a Reviresco Strutter



and replaced the interplane struts with lengths of paper-clip wire. This made the plane MUCH stronger (but I still fear dropping it, because of the thin-wire undercart)

[fast.git]

I use the K deck for the Sopwith 1 1/2 Strut. At least it's what I have in the unofficial rules...

...Isn't the V deck a bit fast for the Strutter?

That was my thought, too. Even the "K" deck sounds a bit sprightly for the Strutter.

Edit: Huh. Just checked the "official" unofficial stats (as of 03/02/15) and the Strutter is listed as using a "V" deck. Wonder if that pre-dates the release of the D.II as an official Ares model?

[fast.git]

That's a great looking kite, Tim. Love the two-tone PC10/CDL look!

[Teaticket]

I can't wait to see what the Official Strutter deck will be. I've always thought the V deck was a bit generous.

[fast.git]

I can't wait to see what the Official Strutter deck will be. I've always thought the V deck was a bit generous.

Agreed. The D.II was about 10 mph (15 kph) faster than the Strutter, and (I've always assumed) somewhat more agile.

[Walter Nowotny]

That's a good idea replacing the struts with wire. I may just do that. And yes, I was referring to the Bristol F2B. I would never imagine the V deck for this plane.

[Blackronin]

I built a Reviresco Strutter



and replaced the interplane struts with lengths of paper-clip wire. This made the plane MUCH stronger (but I still fear dropping it, because of the thin-wire undercart)

Dear Tim thanks for the REP.
Your Strutter is wonderful.
I don't remember if I already gave you REP for it. If I haven't, here it goes.

[Blackronin]

That was my thought, too. Even the "K" deck sounds a bit sprightly for the Strutter.

Edit: Huh. Just checked the "official" unofficial stats (as of 03/02/15) and the Strutter is listed as using a "V" deck. Wonder if that pre-dates the release of the D.II as an official Ares model?

Okay! I may have only the older ones. I must check the new edition.

[Flying Helmut]

Many thanks for the REP, Joaquim!

Puts me past 700!

[Blackronin]

That's a good idea replacing the struts with wire. I may just do that. And yes, I was referring to the Bristol F2B. I would never imagine the V deck for this plane.

Jim, the speed difference between the Strutter and the F2B is abysmal for the time period.

1½ Strutter - two seater, (130 hp Clerget - the best engine fitted in the Strutter)
Maximum speed: 100 mph (161 km/h)

Bristol F2b
Maximum speed: 123 mph (198 km/h)

And the Bristol was much more resistant and powerful, enabling it to make tighter maneuvers.
They cannot have the same deck at all.

I still think that the K is better than the V for the Strutter. These are the same decks and the only difference is that the V has a reverse maneuver. It was said that th Strutter had a docile handling, that make it unsuitable for dog-fighting. But if the committee chose the V deck, I'll abide.

[Blackronin]

Many thanks for the REP, Joaquim!

Puts me past 700!

Drinks on me, then!

[Rebel]

Very nicely done. Will you be using the Bristol maneuver deck on these? I have never built a metal plane model before but I do have some on the way. I am curious, how durable do you think they are compared to the regular mini's? My fear is that they will not take a good accidental dropping like the plastic ones do, and with older hands you know that happens a lot.

Yes you're correct. They don't like being dropped and also they are a bit heavy for gimble mounts but that being said I have 22 examples in my fleet including an
AEG G.IV and a Gotha. The Gotha is very heavy and I am still working on a suitable flight peg arrangement for it. At the moment it has a single one piece peg and sits on a triangular plate at the top. They are ,as you say, a bit chunky but I like them. I still have 7 or 8 more to build including another AEG and Gotha,when I can find the time.

[Walter Nowotny]

Good information and excellent Models Gentlemen. My Planes delivered today. If I can get a successful build (one that does not involve making a "final" adjustment with a ball-peen hammer) I will start a post with pics.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Looks as if the Strutter has gained a new lease of life prior to its official release then.
Very well produced and rendered models gentlemen.
Thanks for posting.
Rob.

[Angiolillo]

1½ Strutter - two seater, (130 hp Clerget - the best engine fitted in the Strutter)
Maximum speed: 100 mph (161 km/h)

Planes are divided in 20 km/h bands. 161 km/h is in the same band as the Albastros D.II.

I still think that the K is better than the V for the Strutter. These are the same decks and the only difference is that the V has a reverse maneuver. It was said that th Strutter had a docile handling, that make it unsuitable for dog-fighting. But if the committee chose the V deck, I'll abide.

After a first attribution of the K deck the Committee, Zoe in particular, stated that the Strutter was agile enough to do reverse maneuvres. And there are pilot reports of that. So the deck became the V one, adding the Immelman.

[Blackronin]

Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin
1½ Strutter - two seater, (130 hp Clerget - the best engine fitted in the Strutter)
Maximum speed: 100 mph (161 km/h)


Planes are divided in 20 km/h bands. 161 km/h is in the same band as the Albastros D.II.

Quote Originally Posted by Blackronin
I still think that the K is better than the V for the Strutter. These are the same decks and the only difference is that the V has a reverse maneuver. It was said that th Strutter had a docile handling, that make it unsuitable for dog-fighting. But if the committee chose the V deck, I'll abide.

After a first attribution of the K deck the Committee, Zoe in particular, stated that the Strutter was agile enough to do reverse maneuvres. And there are pilot reports of that. So the deck became the V one, adding the Immelman.

Thanks for the clarification Andrea, you're most kind.

[Angiolillo]

You welcome. The pilot quote about a Strutter doing 13 loops in a row was posted by Zoe here in the forum. Sorry if I did not post it at first, I had troubles finding it. Here it is, within a discussion about Strutter's deck:

http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...l=1#post357496

K deck is appropriate when first introduced - but then some smart CO demonstrated to his unit that when unladen with bombs, it could loop - by doing 13 consecutive loops in a row.


Basically those squadrons that used it as a bomber weren't trained to use it to its full capacity, at least, early on. It was about as maneuverable as an Albatros D.II. the D.III could out-maneuver it.

A similar tale to that of the F2B. But they figured out how to use that properly. By the time they did it with the Strutter, it was obsolete.

[Blackronin]

Thanks again, Andrea.
Misconceptions... A human nature's problem.

[Teaticket]

If "By the time they did it with the Strutter, it was obsolete." maybe we should play it more historically omitting the Immelmann until the last few months of it's use?

[Blackronin]

If "By the time they did it with the Strutter, it was obsolete." maybe we should play it more historically omitting the Immelmann until the last few months of it's use?

That's what I'll do in fact.

[fast.git]

If "By the time they did it with the Strutter, it was obsolete." maybe we should play it more historically omitting the Immelmann until the last few months of it's use?

That's what I'll do in fact.

As will I.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

I'm in as well.
Rob.

[flash]

I already do !

[Flying Helmut]

I suppose I better had as well, then!

[Angiolillo]

Here the quotation, thanks to Zoe and the Committee:

I took up one of our aircraft to demonstrate to my pilots just what could be done with it. In the back seat I had as a passenger Tom Purdey, my Adjutant, and thinking that thirteen might be the right number, psychologically, for such a display, I performed thirteen consecutive loops. Everything about my demonstration went off very well until I landed, and then I found that I had not warned Purdey about what I was going to do, and than he had not been strapped in. Throughout the whole of the thirteen loops he had been hanging on to the fixtures in the interior of the cockpit, and grim death had been staring him in the face. He could all too easily have fallen out, and I was very angry with myself for such thoughtlessness on my part, although Purdey, after his first fright, took it all in good spirit. My pilots, I need hardly say, were delighted with what they thought was an enormous joke.
Major Sholto Douglas, 43 Squadron, RFC Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter

Thanks to Zoe we also know that 43 squadron used 2-seater Strutters until Sept 1917, when they were replaced by Camels.

The optional rule to avoid using an Immelmann in early use of the Strutter has been considered.

Of course, when the plane is loaded with bombs you can decide to apply the full load optional rule, Rules & Accessories Pack p. 38 col. 1: it prevents the use of the Immelmann maneuvre until the bombs are dropped.

[Guntruck]

I still think that the K is better than the V for the Strutter. These are the same decks and the only difference is that the V has a reverse maneuver. It was said that th Strutter had a docile handling, that make it unsuitable for dog-fighting. But if the committee chose the V deck, I'll abide.

The committee isn't infallible (well, occasionally ) and is open to arguments agin the deck decided on. Although we are currently working on an update to the lists, in the case of the Strutters I am wondering whether at this stage of the game it is worth kicking the Strutter's stats to death again, or wait until we see what deck is in the Ares release.

[Flying Officer Kyte]

Probably the latter Steve.
Rob.

[Blackronin]

The committee isn't infallible (well, occasionally ) and is open to arguments agin the deck decided on. Although we are currently working on an update to the lists, in the case of the Strutters I am wondering whether at this stage of the game it is worth kicking the Strutter's stats to death again, or wait until we see what deck is in the Ares release.

I'm not at all criticizing the committee. In fact I'm in love with all of them. I'm just trying to see things from perspective.