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Thread: X-Wing Prices Going Up

  1. #1

    Default X-Wing Prices Going Up

    Don't know how much you guys are following the news, but X-Wing Prices are going up on the online game store sites due to Asmodee's new pricing policy. It's a good time to be a Wings of Glory guy.

    S.
    Last edited by Sagrilarus; 12-30-2015 at 19:10.

  2. #2

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    WoG rrp are roughly 50% higher than X-Wing so they have some catching up to do !

    "He is wise who watches"

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    Actually they're not - the UK RRP for a fighter size X-Wing model is £11.99, while a Wings Of Glory scout is much more expensive at, umm, £11.99....

  4. #4

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    Must disagree. The prices of X/W stufff In Polish market are stable and moderate with great quality/playability ratio.
    Here one has to pay exactly the same money for the X-Wing starter set with 3 minis and all the gaming fun inside and for a lone ARES' Lancaster miniature.
    There is absolutely no way to compare the money/fun ratio of those two products. Sorry ARES.
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    Guntruck's Avatar Central England Command Squadron Leader & Librarian
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    I'm trying to offload all my X-Wing stuff as nobody in my club wants to play it anymore. Plus I got fed up with FFG trotting out the same old stuff with a different lick of paint....
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    ... trotting out the same old stuff with a different lick of paint....
    Uhmmm... I feel like defending FFG in that case, as advocatus diaboli, Steve: Not only the paint is new, but the stats are new and maneuvers are new as well. And they give you more flying options. Humble two cents.
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  7. #7

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    No price changes here in Germany either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Uhmmm... I feel like defending FFG in that case, as advocatus diaboli, Steve: Not only the paint is new, but the stats are new and maneuvers are new as well. And they give you more flying options. Humble two cents.
    You're not a lawyer by any chance? Oh yes, you are.....
    Run for your life - there are stupid people everywhere!

  9. #9

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    This is hitting the discount houses, a prime source of material here in the U.S. given the low shipping rates. Asmodee (FFG's parent company) is instituting new pricing policies for web-based sales and eliminating a lot of the wholesalers. Currently, packages that have a suggested price of $15 go for $9 online. Given that people purchase minis in groups the shipping becomes less of a factor, so there were substantial discounts to be had. I've purchased WofG planes as inexpensively as $6 when they're on sale at online sellers, often in groups of five or six at a time. That's a chump purchase compared to a lot of you, but that's a big layout of money for me. I don't spend that much on games.

    Asmodee is indicating that they intend to grab part of that 30%-40% discount that the online houses are providing, setting up special relationships that eliminate wholesalers for online vendors. Online shops will purchase directly from Asmodee, and Asmodee will charge them more than they will traditional brick and mortar game stores. Asmodee is reducing the number of middlemen and lifting the price for online vendors so that the brick and mortar stores can compete.

    I'm not too torn up about it, because I don't buy very many Asmodee games and when I do I generally buy used. In theory this will raise my used prices as well but I can't imagine it being that much. That said, at least for the moment WofG planes will be relatively cheaper in the U.S. in comparison to X-Wing. Now if my local guy could get stock of starter kits I'd be all set.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    Plus I got fed up with FFG trotting out the same old stuff with a different lick of paint....
    LOL, thank heavens Ares and Nexus only sold their aircraft in a single paint scheme rather than with a load of variations

  11. #11

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    X-Wing Prices Going Up
    No, discounted prices going up, RRP remaining unchanged

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guntruck View Post
    I'm trying to offload all my X-Wing stuff .....
    What have you got for sale?

  13. #13

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    As I don't I'm glad. Another Empire in a galaxy far far away and that's where swmbo would put me if I dared. In the words of our Guru:

    No More Sails in a Galaxy Far Far Away. This one is enough.
    See you on the Dark Side......

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Uhmmm... I feel like defending FFG in that case, as advocatus diaboli, Steve: Not only the paint is new, but the stats are new and maneuvers are new as well. And they give you more flying options. Humble two cents.
    and plenty of power creep to boot

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by milcoll73 View Post
    and plenty of power creep to boot
    Yeah, and that's part of the reason I'm so much happier with Wings of Glory. I feel like I buy planes because I want to, not because I have to.

    Part of FFG/Asmodee's rationale for this in their press releases is that the brick and mortar stores provide space for "organized play". (Apparently my sessions with 20 kids are disorganized. Who knew?) So these stores should not be at a disadvantage at sales time. They're providing a service. But I gotta be honest, I'm just not into organized play, i.e., competition for prize money. I feel like I'm playing for the wrong reasons, and I have to keep up with that power creep you mention. I'd have to keep buying the latest kit just to get the card I need and proxy cards aren't allowed in orgainized play. I have enough pressure at work, I don't need it at play time.

    I don't really think Asmodee needs to justify anything they choose with me personally. It's their business. But my WofG fighters are still between $8 and $12 at the online stores. That keeps some pressure on the local retailers to offer discounts off of MSRP, that means I get to buy game mats and the like with the savings. I would have bailed long ago if I had to buy to "keep up".

  16. #16

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    I don't get this "I have to" thing about X Wing. If you are into tournament play and obsessing over the exact position of each TIE fighter down to the nearest 1/10 of a millimetre then fine, but for regular fun games nights its just not an issue. Maybe I'm an unusual X Wing player, I don't know, but to be honest, tournament play (or just about any other heavily regimented and organised play) chills me to the bone.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Maybe I'm an unusual X Wing player, I don't know, but to be honest, tournament play (or just about any other heavily regimented and organised play) chills me to the bone.
    Amen to that. X-wing models are pretty, the basic rules are easy to pick up, and my son loves to play. That's good enough for me.

  18. #18

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    I don't do tournaments -- they attract the worst kind of power-gaming min-maxing Munchkin s***; and FFG has set up the game to cater to those. Read the FFG forums sometime; try to find any posts which *aren't* about "the meta" (code for "How best to Munchkin one's way to victory in tournaments").

    And the Price Controls regime -- FFG/Asmodee is jumping on the Games Workshop boat, just in time for it to crash into the 3D-printing iceberg....

  19. #19

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    Good job I (nor any of my X Wing playing friends) read the forums

    So do you think the 3D iceberg is going to hit WoG as well?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    So do you think the 3D iceberg is going to hit WoG as well?
    In some aspects: It already has -- ever noticed how many non-Ares minis one sees in AARs? Or how often folks are forced to go to outside suppliers to get minis for acft. Ares can't be bothered to make (coughcoughSopwithPupcoughcough)?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skafloc View Post
    As I don't I'm glad. Another Empire in a galaxy far far away and that's where swmbo would put me if I dared. In the words of our Guru:

    No More Sails in a Galaxy Far Far Away. This one is enough.
    +1
    See I am on your side Tim.

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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    In some aspects: It already has -- ever noticed how many non-Ares minis one sees in AARs? Or how often folks are forced to go to outside suppliers to get minis for acft. Ares can't be bothered to make (coughcoughSopwithPupcoughcough)?
    I think there's a view that the 3D revolution went a long way to keeping the game in people's consciousness, as it was possible to get decent models that didn't need assembly during the hiatus. I'm more interested now though on the threat to Ares in the future. 3D printing Star Wars stuff is probably not going to be that much of an issue for FFG due to Disney's IP and legal departments - if printers look like being a threat then the printing companies will be hit with C&D letters (as they have on many occasions already). Ares has no such protection, its subjects (as far as printed models is concerned) is all open source.

  23. #23

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    The outlay for the printer, and the need to paint, and the lower quality plastic, are going to put a fair amount of backpressure on 3D printing for the foreseeable future. As it stands the WofG planes coming out are one hell of a deal at their price. I'm not saying it's not going to happen, I just think Ares has some time to work on things before that happens.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    3D printing Star Wars stuff is probably not going to be that much of an issue for FFG due to Disney's IP and legal departments - if printers look like being a threat then the printing companies will be hit with C&D letters (as they have on many occasions already). Ares has no such protection, its subjects (as far as printed models is concerned) is all open source.
    [nod] I suspect any 3D printing of _Star Wars_ stuff is going to be "personal use only", to stay off The Mouse's radar. But, as noted: For WW1 and -2 acft., there's elebenty-billion suppliers who are producing the minis people *actually* want; and maneuver decks can be extrapolated (QED); so Ares had best start bringing its A-game to the table, or they're going to become just another entry in the Necrogamicon (the Book of Dead Games).

  25. #25

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    WoG is dead in my area while X-wings is very strong. In order just to play opponents I had to turn to X-wing. A slight change in cost will not effect the game.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
    WoG is dead in my area while X-wings is very strong. In order just to play opponents I had to turn to X-wing. A slight change in cost will not effect the game.
    John, Can I interest you in a Skype game? I am, finally, getting local games.

    Distribution of Wings of Glory material to my FLGS is non-existant, even for new releases. Try developing a local WoG group with that hurdle?

    Well, I did get two new local players in to a game with three out-of-province/out-of-country players this week!
    Mike
    "Flying is learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss" Douglas Adams
    "Wings of Glory won't skin your elbows and knees while practicing." OldGuy59

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    [nod] I suspect any 3D printing of _Star Wars_ stuff is going to be "personal use only", to stay off The Mouse's radar. But, as noted: For WW1 and -2 acft., there's elebenty-billion suppliers who are producing the minis people *actually* want; and maneuver decks can be extrapolated (QED); so Ares had best start bringing its A-game to the table, or they're going to become just another entry in the Necrogamicon (the Book of Dead Games).
    As far as I can tell from my time on FFG's forum (mostly for rpg purposes) the gamers over there are just as keen on 3d prints as we WoWGers are. Mel's Miniatures (I think that's the guy's handle) not only does ships, but he does ship card pdfs to go along with them. And the guy's ships look pretty damned good.

    Maybe the Mouse is turning a blind eye on this stuff because it sees it as a benefit in some way, i.e., helping to keep the game alive.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbmacek View Post
    As far as I can tell from my time on FFG's forum (mostly for rpg purposes) the gamers over there are just as keen on 3d prints as we WoWGers are. Mel's Miniatures (I think that's the guy's handle) not only does ships, but he does ship card pdfs to go along with them. And the guy's ships look pretty damned good.

    Maybe the Mouse is turning a blind eye on this stuff because it sees it as a benefit in some way, i.e., helping to keep the game alive.
    Probably, the Mouse figures it's FFG's problem, and FFG is making enough not to be worried about it.
    Karl
    It is impossible for a man to begin to learn what he thinks he knows. -- Epictetus

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by john snelling View Post
    WoG is dead in my area while X-wings is very strong. In order just to play opponents I had to turn to X-wing. A slight change in cost will not effect the game.
    Quoting this for truth. WoG was never technically "alive" in any meaningful sense in my area as far as I know, although I have introduced it to my local gaming group and we've had a few raucous fun games with the system (standard rules, no altitude, very beer-and-pretzels with lots of laugh = a good time had by all).

    With that said, historical gaming is most decidedly NOT popular with the "30-something" crowd of wargamers I know. They are far more into sci-fi and fantasy and some go so far as to have a strong aversion to even the concept of playing historicals as they had an ancestor who served and they feel it would in some way diminish the memory of their service and sacrifice to make a game of their experience.

    I myself have also gotten into X-Wing simply to get more games. At the beginning I was quite put off by the system as it seemed a clear rip-off of WoW/WoG, as well as the entire concept that within the vastness of space, all dogfights must apparently take place in an asteroid field ("we can't fight here, sir, there's no asteroids!" LOL).

    With that said... after playing for a few months, I'm genuinely quite impressed with the system. Whether you play X-Wing as a casual or a hardcore tourney competitor, it's a great system and, IMHO, FFG has done an amazing job of keeping the system balanced through the waves. Where they've made mistakes (i.e. pre-nerf Phantom) they've gone back and fixed things, as well as regularly releasing buffs to underperforming ships. The 100pt dogfight scenario is really quite fun and you can bring a huge variety of viable builds that, if flown well, will truly give you a good chance of winning against almost any opponent. Obviously not all lists are created equal, but the huge variety of viable lists is, for me, testament to the quality of the system and the genuine and concerted effort FFG puts into maintaining game balance.

    Going back to WoG after playing X-Wing makes me appreciate some of the clear improvements FFG made to the system. The maneuver dials and movement templates do not offer anywhere near the range of figures that WoG cards do, but they're much faster to set and much easier to place accurately on the table. The "bump" mechanic for handling overlaps is, for me, an elegant solution to the headache of fiddlyness that frequently results when you've got 2+ planes overlapping in WoG and you're having to swap in plane cards while trying your meticulous best not to move other cards, etc. The dice can be swingy, but the ability to modify the dice via tokens and abilities means you have some recourse - compare this to WoG's brutal "Kaboom" card which makes cold dice a walk in the park by comparison. To be fair, these same dice mechanics do make a typical X-Wing game drag on a bit more than your average WoG session, but I question whether they don't do a better job of rewarding good positioning as opposed to good luck (on the damage card draw). And it goes without saying that a comprehensive points system for ships, upgrades, etc. goes a much longer way towards ensuring balanced matchups than WoG's quasi-official "find it on the internet" points system. Makes pickup games a lot easier, for sure, as well as tournaments.

    With all that said... WoG will *always* have a very special place in my heart and I love the free and fun and much more relaxed nature of the game, as well as the hugely robust (by comparison) range of historically-inspired scenarios. So don't take any of what I wrote above as slagging WoG because that's not my intention - I think it's great and I'm excited as can be to receive my Kickstarter bombers any day now. But I do feel like it's worth recognizing that X-Wing's enormous popularity is not based primarily on its intellectual property, but rather mostly on the fact that it is truly a very good system.

    I'm glad I get to play both

    EDIT: MY comments above are in respect to WGF. I've never gotten that into WGS, I think because it adds complexity in areas that don't benefit the experience. I'm sure I'd love it with a more straightforward WGF approach - i.e. plan 3 cards - or else with a full bore X-Wing 1 maneuver approach. The middle ground of two cards combined with speed tokens just sort of mucks it all up IMHO.
    Last edited by surfimp; 02-01-2016 at 16:17.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    I don't get this "I have to" thing about X Wing. If you are into tournament play and obsessing over the exact position of each TIE fighter down to the nearest 1/10 of a millimetre then fine, but for regular fun games nights its just not an issue. Maybe I'm an unusual X Wing player, I don't know, but to be honest, tournament play (or just about any other heavily regimented and organised play) chills me to the bone.
    When most people say 'I have to purchase this to play that' they are usually saying I hate having to print my own cards out and not have the official game components. I was one of those and finally gave that up and will proxy what I need. But it is yucky, I paid lots of money and still don't have enough official upgrade cards and/or tokens for the squad I already own. As much as I love the Raider ($100 USD MSRP) it still hurts to purchase that for the cards which fixes a ship few would use even on a bad day. Many talk in extremes. No one has to buy anything in a hobby. That is just a preference and how they are feeling.

    Having only gotten one game in with my wife I may not be qualified to speak but... X-Wing and Wings of Glory, to me at least, are two very different games, even in how the game is marketed. I like both for different reasons entirely and think that X-Wing as good as it is has draw backs. I'm sure I'll see that in Wings of Glory as soon as I start playing. Both are very different, both have similarities and both are fun, sometimes for different reasons.

    So far ain't it fun?

    Just my 2 cents.

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    I could never get my head around X-Wing even though I knew some guys who were prepared to teach me how to play. Space and fiction just didn't appeal to me unlike historically-based wargaming does. I am also another person who prefers to play with Officially manufactured and printed kit instead of my own scans and photocopies: With one key exception which has now been improved upon greatly thanks to the work of Mike - also known as OldGuy59.

    Yes it was the hand-drawn aircraft card for XH560 which Mike very kindly and greatly improved for me back in October 2015.

    If it is any consolation Derbyshire is rather a Wings of Glory Desert whilst X-Wing reigns quite strongly. Non-Aerodrome Member but WGS player Richard Seville is temporarily concentrating on his final year at University. Plus there's been my ill-health which put the final nails in the coffin to do with the Public Demonstration Days I was running at Galactic Models. I know one thing I often think is of the lack of bricks and mortar shop stockists who cater for the game but in this day and age running a FLGS or even a traditional model shop is difficult. Selling on E-Bay is about to become even more expensive so I gather: There really has been only one winner there for I'd say the past two years and the situation is about to get worse.

    BTW correct me if wrong but are there three different versions of X-Wing out now or are there two siblings in relation to an original or main game? I think one of the siblings / other versions is called something like Armada ...

  32. #32

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    Armada covers big ship actions rather than fighter combat

  33. #33

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    Yeah I think it's as much about the emotional approach to the game as anything else. You don't see a bunch of X-Wing guys getting together in a shop to create an impromptu dogfight. They break into groups of two, battle in a round-robin fashion and then compete in a single elimination playoff with exclusive models as prizes. I much prefer to meet new people in the more relaxed setting and sip from the beer hidden in my gear bag while I play with my new friends.

    As for Star Wars-based fighting games -- I think FFG's total is seven now if you include the card game. There's X-Wing and there's the big ships game Armada that play in space (and more than a few people pissed that they like Armada better after spending hundreds of dollars on X-Wing), and there's games that are ground combat and then the new Star Wars Rebellion which is a more traditional board game, kind of in the ilk of Twilight Struggle, cards and control of locations kind of thing.

    Christian Peterson is getting rich on this stuff (presumably more rich with their new pricing structure) but we all know that Angiolino gets the chicks.

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  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Armada covers big ship actions rather than fighter combat
    Though I don't play myself I'm always interested in learning - thank you for that David

    However in comparison both WGF and WGS are able to amalgamate the actions of Giants and Heavy Bombers respectively with those of their smaller counterparts. Even when playing Solitaire ... Separating the two reminds me of the day I decided to do something I have been wondering about since high school playing WGS solo one day - whatever possessed me I'll never know but I set a NA B-25B Mitchell off against a Heinkel HE.111H: A bombers-duel if you like.

    44 turns later it had gone dark outside and my feet were KILLING me by the time the first of these two A Token / Chit Distributors came thundering out of action ... If memory serves me correctly it was the Mitchell though it was a close finish. Longest game I have ever played in my year-long playing career. But somehow still fun saying a lot for the versatility of Wings of Glory as well.

  35. #35

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    There are three variations, if you will, of X-Wing / Star Wars miniatures games by FFG:

    1) "Normal" X-Wing, which is invariably the "dogfight in an asteroid field" tourney setup with 100pts a side, represented with anywhere from 2-8 ships controlled per player (usually 2-3 ships per player is pretty typical). The ships are two variations, small base (i.e. X-Wing, TIE Fighter) or large base (i.e. Millennium Falcon, Boba Fett's Slave 1, Imperial Shuttle, etc.). The ships may be armed with forward 45* firing arcs or 360* turrets, depending on the ship being modeled (i.e. the Falcon has turrets). The ships can be upgraded with a wide variety of pilot skills, ship modifications (i.e. engine upgrade, more shields, etc.) and so forth

    Regular X-Wing:


    2) "Epic" X-Wing, which is 300pts a side and includes a limited number of "Huge" ships, i.e. the Corellian Corvette (the ship Princess Leia was captured on in Star Wars: A New Hope), the Imperial Raider (created just for this game, but basically a scaled-down Star Destroyer) and similar, along with a enough small and large base ships (from "normal" X-Wing) to fill up the points. 2v2 team games can also be played at 200pts per player / 400pts per side. These games can often take quite a bit longer than a normal X-Wing game due to the sheer number of ships involved, and as such it's more of a casual/spectacle kind of game as opposed to the tighter / tournament-oriented normal game. This is probably closest to what playing with the Giants of the Sky will be like for WGF.

    Epic X-Wing:


    3) Star Wars: Armada, which is a completely distinct game from X-Wing and uses a different line of miniatures altogether, focusing on capital ship engagements. Here the Corellian Corvette and Imperial Raider are some of the smallest ships in the game, whereas in Epic X-Wing they're the hulking giants. The Imperial Star Destroyer is represented, as are the Rebel Home One and Nebulon (think of the huge fleet battle at the end of Return of the Jedi and you've got the general idea). Unlike X-Wing, individual fighters are not represented, instead there are stands depicting fighter squadrons. A similar but different maneuver planning and movement mechanic is used, including an articulated plastic movement template (as contrasted to the static cardboard templates of X-Wing).

    Star Wars: Armada:

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sagrilarus View Post
    Yeah I think it's as much about the emotional approach to the game as anything else. You don't see a bunch of X-Wing guys getting together in a shop to create an impromptu dogfight.
    Come to Game Storm in Vancouver, WA -- I'll be running "The Battle Of Hoth As It Should Have Been": TIE Bombers escorted by TIE Fighters vs. X- and Y-Wings, instead of plodding AT-ATs and undergunned Snowspeeders. >;)

    I don't use it for tournaments -- I *HATE* tournaments; they attract the worst order of min-maxing Munchkins. I only do "Historical" fights.

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    Chris you are not alone ... When I used to play Galactic Models Gaming Nights there used to be a healthy X-Wing attendance - three guys stand out in particular. None of them liked playing X-Wing tournaments for that very reason. One of them even went further to say that tournaments bring out the pretentious side of players which would otherwise never normally be seen. Even on his deathbed would he have never played a tournament - then he asked me what Wings of Glory tournaments were like?!

    Now I'm going to be careful here because I would actually like to experience a Wings of Glory tournament and would play one without hesitation. I remember posting about this before only for another Member who was more experienced than I was at the time to reply with let another player of another game colour my views ... It's going to be my loss at the end of the day. Agreed on reflection. I have to admit that my usual standard of play is close enough for government work (as borrowed with permission from another Member) however it's the pretentious bit I cannot see when I picture playing anybody who I have met or spoken to on the Aerodrome. Another reason to agree with my loss etc.

    We are all bound to get a little bit pernickety (like nit-picky) in the heat of the moment of a tournament but this is just human nature. That and competitive spirit rather than competitive bug which is where the pretentious bit could possibly emanate from.

    BTW - Battle of Hoth as It Should Have Been idea is just EXCELLENT! I'd love to see this or if it is possible some footage because Washington State is some way away from Derbyshire ...

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    I only do "Historical" fights.
    No need for the double-quote marks. The Battle of Hoth did indeed happen, a long time ago.

    I think you can tournament any game you like. But that supports my original point -- it isn't about what you can do with a game, it's about what it feels like you should do with a game. Every game has a personality, it's own personal essence and I think you do well to work with the grain instead of against it. If you have 20 people show up at a game store to play Wings of Glory I think you do better to split into two teams, have the German team put on costume store stick-on mustaches, battle like hell for two hours, maybe declare one side or the other the winner each round and then hit the buffet around the corner for a troft session. X-Wing with its pre-game deckbuild aspect and its millions of combinations has a very different flavor to it, one that fosters more of a competitive vibe to it. It's serious business.

    Wings of Glory really lends itself well to tragic deaths. X-Wing not so much. George Carlin did a bit on this with baseball and football.

  39. #39

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    If I had to sum up the differences between the two systems in as few words as possible:

    X-Wing is a game. Wings of Glory is a party.

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    I don't get this "I have to" thing about X Wing. If you are into tournament play and obsessing over the exact position of each TIE fighter down to the nearest 1/10 of a millimetre then fine, but for regular fun games nights its just not an issue. Maybe I'm an unusual X Wing player, I don't know, but to be honest, tournament play (or just about any other heavily regimented and organised play) chills me to the bone.
    I'm with you. I like playing X-wing in a very relaxed mode. I even let players re-do their dials. I enjoy how balanced the game is and the adjustments they make to keep it balanced. I have a good chance of winning every game.

  41. #41

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    To be fair: I have run tournaments -- but I run them *my* way, with the focus on the best Player, not the best Set-Up Monkey.

    My preferred method is what I call the "Ring Of Fire": Each player gets an identical unit. Each player is given a number, 1-[n], where [n] equals "number of players". Each player has a designated target -- the player who is one number higher; the highest-number's target in #1. If a player succeeds in destroying his target, he receives his target's target as his new target. Players score +1 point for each kill, -1 for being killed; tie-break for 1st goes to whoever survives.

    So, for example: There are five [5] players. Players are numbered: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5*. Player 1 has Player 2 as his target; Player 2 has Player 3 as his target; etc., until we reach Player 5, who has as his target Player 1. If, say, Player 2 kills Player 3, Player 2's new target is Player 4; if Player 4 is already dead, 2's target would be Player 5, and so on.

    [*: By amazing coincidence, this is also the combination for my luggage. >;) ]

    I set up this system after reading accounts of _Car Wars_ Worlds Championships where half the field came from one club (River City AutoDuel Assn., the SJG "house" club), and they spent the entire game cruising around shooting only at non-RCADA members; this way, everyone knows who should be shooting whom, and "sandbagging" become *painfully* obvious. >:)

  42. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfimp View Post
    There are three variations, if you will, of X-Wing / Star Wars miniatures games by FFG
    The games we've played are just like the WoW/G games we've played. It's a bunch of us around a table, hoping that our made-up scenario is fun, if not evenly balanced.

    Our last game wasn't particularly balanced, but I had fun. Then again, I was playing Rebel Alliance Listening Post 9, which was fairly powerful.



    But the most fun I've had playing an Attack Wing type game lately was playing "Operation Retrieve." Our Federation ships were able to rescue Kirk and McCoy from the Klingon prison on Rura Penthe.



    That was from a scenario card that came with one of the STAW ships. Every ship comes with one scenario, which is a cool practice.

  43. #43

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    That is one thing I think X-Wing is lacking. Scenarios. It would be so much more fun to play scenarios/missions and need squads for that rather than simple the 100 point death match tweaking up efficiency levels.

    [Edit] I purchased DS9 to play with X-Wing too.

  44. #44

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    Can not disagree more. With all the drawbacks of this game, the scenarios included in every game box and an expansions are well thought, flexible, replayable and simply very enjoyable. Have not you tried them?!
    <img src=http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=2554&dateline=1409073309 border=0 alt= />
    "We do not stop playing when we get old, but we get old when we stop playing."

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Can not disagree more. With all the drawbacks of this game, the scenarios included in every game box and an expansions are well thought, flexible, replayable and simply very enjoyable. Have not you tried them?!
    I like the scenarios included with the bigger ships. I wish we had more.

    I'm not following what part you disagree with.


    Also I wish they would include suggested squad builds with missions. Of course we can take any squad we wish but if the mission was designed around specific builds they could be both challenging and easy to setup. Squad building is a very big part of X-Wing and some like it as much or more than actually playing. But providing suggested, not required, builds you satisfy both type of players, Deck Builder and those who would just like to game. I'd be up for a book of missions, 50+ with suggested squads for both sides.

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightbomber View Post
    Can not disagree more. With all the drawbacks of this game, the scenarios included in every game box and an expansions are well thought, flexible, replayable and simply very enjoyable. Have not you tried them?!
    This is completely true but 99.99999% of the X-Wing games I've played and seen played have been the 100pt tourney "dogfight in an asteroid field" variety. To your point, it's not because there aren't other alternatives, it's just easier to find games when you settle on the deathmatch lowest common denominator.

    There's a thread on BGG where an avid boardgamer - but not a particularly avid WWII historian - lambasted Wings of Glory for not having a clearer path to purchases and scenario balance:

    "You see, my friends are gamers. They are not 'miniature gamers'. They are gamers. When they sit down to play a game they expect a rigorously play-tested, finely tuned experience. If there are variable player powers by God they had better be exactly equivalent or the game will be laughed off the table."

    A simple, straightforward default scenario like X-Wing's 100pt dogfight combined with FFG's ongoing and rigorous efforts to maintain game balance help address those kinds of concerns and probably help explain some of the system's meteoric rise in popularity (as does the complete hash that GW has made of 40k and Fantasy, the challenges in WM/H, etc. etc. - there's some element of "other system fatigue" that's helping fill X-Wing's sails, too, of course).

    Historicals are a different beast altogether and things like "balance" are themselves suspect considering actual warfare almost never is. Especially true in air combat where killing the other guy before he knows he's in a fight is truly the best way to win.

    For me, Wings of Glory is a magnificently elegant sandbox game where I can cook up all kinds of fun scenarios using my understanding of history and air combat to help guide the selection process. That is not for everyone - it requires too much commitment if you're not already a history and aviation geek.
    Last edited by surfimp; 02-05-2016 at 08:21.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfimp View Post
    A simple, straightforward default scenario like X-Wing's 100pt dogfight combined with FFG's ongoing and rigorous efforts to maintain game balance help address those kinds of concerns and probably help explain some of the system's meteoric rise in popularity
    Yes it is definitely part of the reason it is popular. New bright and shineys ever few months, excruciating need for balance efficiency, tournament play. But this has also made it hard for new players to find, in the over whelming mountain of potential upgrades available, what constitutes a good squad. Even a causal player who is good at strategy can still suffer huge losses because the more engaged player simply built a better squad or counter. Ongoing and rigorous efforts to maintain game balance is great for enthusiasm and tournaments but do have their down sides.

    I agree that most people play 100 point matches. Funny though, speaking of lots of upgrades, once I saw someone change their mind and agree to play a mission; it took them over an hour to put together a squad with upgrades just to play that mission.

    To much of a good thing and all that...

  48. #48

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    I must admit I've never played a 100 point match, all our games have been scenarios or pick-up games 9which we seem to ahve been quite good at naturally balancing without having to think much about points). Thats probably why we enjoy it so much

  49. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken at Sunrise View Post
    I agree that most people play 100 point matches. Funny though, speaking of lots of upgrades, once I saw someone change their mind and agree to play a mission; it took them over an hour to put together a squad with upgrades just to play that mission.
    That's a really good point - the sheer setup time for X-Wing can be daunting, even if you've got a list pre-built. FFG certainly do love their cardboard tokens and upgrade cards. I suspect I could play at least one 1v1 WGF duel in the time it takes the average X-Wing player to get setup. So there's that!

  50. #50

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    I'm still new to Wings of Glory (WOG) so my opinions are not fully set in experience. Having said that I see some dramatic similarities and equally dramatic differences in the two games.

    • The movement is similar but (WOG) you must anticipate just a little better. With the planes being less responsive then Star Wars: X-Wing (SWXW) you play three maneuvers at once. You must plan just a bit further ahead. Both require good tactics and planning though.
    • SWXW is a living game; there are not only new ships but constant upgrades to what you own. WOG planes are complete upon release with everything you need either in the Core Set or included with the plane.
    • SWXW tries to balance all pilots against the basic premise that everything has to preform as a fighter. WOG is a historical representation and while they may not be be absolutely perfect recreations there are distinct roles; there are planes that are entirely situational where situational craft in SWXW is considered a disadvantage. This of course leads to some planes being noticeably stronger than others yet still considered viable in the game.
    • SWXW seems to build its depth/complication right from the start. WOG starts simple and allows you to build depth.

      • For example, yesterday a new player on BBG asked about his first tournament SWXW build. Right out of the gate he was advised to add this upgrade, remove this upgrade, not use this pilot, use this pilot and this upgrade. He was advised to buy other ships to have the right upgrades, etc...
      • On the other hand WOG picks a few planes and as long as they are from the same release/wave they preform about the same. Players are encouraged to run historical battles, or even unbalanced matches. If you need more depth play with the more advanced rules or after that... then you can start adding upgrades in the from of skills
      • Same depth but applied early in the experience or saved for later as optional play.
        Now I'm not saying many don't play SWXW without upgrades. Sure they do, especially in EPIC but you can't but browse for a few minutes without realizing playing without upgrades isn't the focus.


    There are several more comparisons I could make between the two, both similar and unique to either. Both seem to be good games with very a different focus on the style of play, upgrades, expansions, balance, etc...

    Just my thoughts.
    Last edited by Ken at Sunrise; 02-05-2016 at 11:51. Reason: spell'in & grammar



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