Caudron G.4

[Prodromoi]

I've been looking into the Caudron G.4 before starting working my Shapeways version of it. However, I've found a bit of a stumbling block.

I've seen that there's some variety (even controversy!) over the armaments and capabilities of the plane (though clearly with so many examples built and flown, variations were tried); for example:
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...on-G4-armament
http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/sho...G4-Firing-Arcs

But what I'm trying to work out is the crew seating, and so far I can't find definitive evidence for who sat where. Looking at the way the guns are mounted (particularly on the surviving example in the Udvar-Hazy museum) I *think* the pilot sat in the rear seat with the gunner/observer in the front seat.

Can anyone supply any source that verifies this? (Or indeed if I'm wrong, confirms it the other way round?)

Thanks.
A

[Prodromoi]

Actually, I may have found some evidence at last...

http://airandspace.si.edu/collection...m_A19190008000

The second and third photos of the Udvar-Hazy survivor show views from the inside the cockpits, and although you can't see all the controls, the rear cockpit shows the top of what certainly appears to be a control stick.

[Zoe Brain]

The pilot sat in the rear cockpit.

G4s had a forward pivot gun, and some had a rear-firing pivot gun usually over the wing, or a fixed forward-firing lewis over the wing - the latter apparently in 1916, when the G4 was used in the counter-air role. By 1917, the opponents were too capable for this to be practical.

Note instrument panel in rear cockpit.



Note pilot in rear cockpit.

[Naharaht]

According to 'Reconnaissance and Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War' by Lamberton and Cheeseman the observer sat in the front seat and was armed with a flexible Vickers or Lewis gun. The observer's firing arc was restricted by the engines. Some aircraft had a second gun firing rearward over the top wing. However, it is clear from the photographs on this site that other arrangements were tried.

[Prodromoi]

According to 'Reconnaissance and Bomber Aircraft of the 1914-1918 War' by Lamberton and Cheeseman the observer sat in the front seat and was armed with a flexible Vickers or Lewis gun. The observer's firing arc was restricted by the engines. Some aircraft had a second gun firing rearward over the top wing. However, it is clear from the photographs on this site that other arrangements were tried.

For a moment I thought I'd managed to completely miss that part - then realised that the one of the books I have is almost the same title, but not quite! (Bombers, Patrol and Reconnaissance Aircraft 1914-1918)

Thanks for the reference and for looking; confirms what I'd thought to be the case, which is always nice!

[johnbiggles]

Hi Alex,
if you look in the hobby part of the forum you will see a few of the variants already modelled, including a single lewis gun, but movable between mounting points.
British Aviation Squadron Markings of WW1 by Les Rogers shows pictures of GIVs in N0 4 Wing RNAS pp217/218 inc 3334 with a flexible Vickers gun in the nose.

[Prodromoi]

Hi Alex,
if you look in the hobby part of the forum you will see a few of the variants already modelled, including a single lewis gun, but movable between mounting points.
British Aviation Squadron Markings of WW1 by Les Rogers shows pictures of GIVs in N0 4 Wing RNAS pp217/218 inc 3334 with a flexible Vickers gun in the nose.

I have done already, but thanks.

Given how many were built and the roles they were pressed in to, it's no wonder really there's such a variety of armament. I'm basing mine on going the two-Lewis (one forward, one rear) outfitting, both operated by the observer/gunner.

I'm getting a bit angst-ridden over the different suggestions for the plane card that all show different arcs for the guns! But I've been working on that too...

[Prodromoi]

British Aviation Squadron Markings of WW1 by Les Rogers shows pictures of GIVs in N0 4 Wing RNAS pp217/218 inc 3334 with a flexible Vickers gun in the nose.

Do any of the photos give a sufficiently clear indication whether the RNAS ones were still in the CDL that every other example seems to have been in, or if they had been repainted (which I'd guess would be PC10 if they had been)?

[Flying Helmut]

Following this thread with interest - I've a couple of these beasties myself, in the painting queue.
Thanks to all for starting/replying!

[johnbiggles]

All the ones I've seen actual photos of seem to be CDL, but I painted mine in PC10 anyway just to be awkward